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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


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Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? * 1
    #11504638 - 11/22/09 02:11 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Do you think it is likely that eventually the feds will get around to busting vendors and buyers of MHRB?  While the bark is not specifically scheduled, it does contain DMT and it doesn't seem a stretch for law enforcement to accuse buyers of buying with the intent to extract DMT.  Yes, I know DMT is supposedly produced in our pineal gland yadda, yadda, yadda.  But let's focus on MHRB for a moment and hear your thoughts.  Do you believe there is risk involved in buying this stuff?  Do you think a judge would believe that you use it for incense, or for dying your clothes or for putting on your burns?  Also, it seems like a pretty easy target for law enforcement.  They have many vendors who keep credit card records and/or addresses of buyers.  This is not like Ralphsters who only takes money orders and does not keep records.


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InvisibleMr Cyan
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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: joemolloy] * 1
    #11507756 - 11/22/09 10:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

DMT can be found in many plants that grow naturally almost all over the world. I feel like unless DMT because a big deal, which it hasn't really, yet... Then no, they probably won't bother.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: Mr Cyan] * 1
    #11508836 - 11/23/09 02:34 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Do you think it is likely that eventually the feds will get around to busting vendors and buyers of MHRB?




Not any time soon.

Quote:

Do you believe there is risk involved in buying this stuff?




No.

Quote:

Do you think a judge would believe that you use it for incense, or for dying your clothes or for putting on your burns?




No.  But he won't hear anything at all.

Quote:

Also, it seems like a pretty easy target for law enforcement.  They have many vendors who keep credit card records and/or addresses of buyers. 




Its not a target & that is not how law enforcement works.

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


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Posts: 6,525
Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
    #11513356 - 11/23/09 06:09 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:



Its not a target & that is not how law enforcement works.




How would we know if it was a target?  Operation Web Tryp took a lot of people off guard.  Also, how does law enforcement work?  People are violating the law by purchasing a "container for DMT."  The vendors are making a lot of money too.  DEA likes money.  Check out the history of the vendors on Ebay.  They are moving major goods.  I might just be paranoid but I can't believe our luck that the DEA is turning a blind eye to such a powerful drug.  I hope they continue to ignore MHRB.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: joemolloy] * 1
    #11517800 - 11/24/09 10:31 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

That doesn't make much sense.  DMT is in almost all living things including yourself.

The law doesn't want to get involved in dubious cases with questionable outcomes.  IMHO there's very little chance they will ever start trying to bust unprocessed material.  If they want to get you they'll just wait until you extract, then bust you.


-FF

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: fastfred] * 1
    #11519628 - 11/24/09 03:10 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
That doesn't make much sense.  DMT is in almost all living things including yourself.

The law doesn't want to get involved in dubious cases with questionable outcomes.  IMHO there's very little chance they will ever start trying to bust unprocessed material.  If they want to get you they'll just wait until you extract, then bust you.


-FF




I remember when they started busting people who bought safrole and sassafras oil in bulk for processing into MDMA.  From what I recall they would wait a month after a large purchase and then start busting doors down to find people in the middle of extractions.  I don't see much of difference between the root bark of sassafras and the root bark of mimosa hostilis.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: joemolloy] * 1
    #11519925 - 11/24/09 04:01 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

One difference is that its pretty hard to make money extracting DMT, while its easy to make money with sassafras oil.

MDMA is quite a target but no one really cares about DMT.  They will run you through the system if they come across it, but they are not out looking for it like they look for MDMA labs.

Given the number of people ordering it (thousands) vs. the number of busts for ordering it (zero), I believe it is safe. 

If you are paranoid, order it to a non-using friends house or pay a bum to open a PO box.  Probably overkill though.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
    #11527692 - 11/25/09 05:18 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

It gets down to intent in a lot of situations. San pedro has mescaline in it but unless you sell the extracted mesc, you will probably not have any problems. But if you sell pedro with instructions on how to extract and say it's to trip on, then intent comes into play and they can get you. It's like how they do with poppy pods.
Vendors are all over the place with pods for flower arrangements but the ones who told you how to make tea got popped. It's a matter of provable intent.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #11528201 - 11/25/09 06:29 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I wonder if large bulk transactions of MHRB are watched by the man.  If they're taking notes.


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Offlinejimbotron
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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: joemolloy] * 1
    #11541099 - 11/28/09 03:22 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

For now it's all just too obscure. 95% of people don't even know what DMT is. And nobody at the post office is gonna look at bark and think 'drugs'. I've never had MHRB come in a bag labeled "Mimosa Hostilis Root Bark" either, so unless someone is suspiciously well-versed in this stuff they'd think it was some kinda mulch or maybe a horrible dietary supplement :tongue2:

You gotta understand that law enforcement and politicians have three things in mind when it comes to drugs:

1) Is it addictive?
2) Is it used primarily by the lower socioeconomic classes?
3) Is it well-known enough that authoritarian types will be impressed to hear that it's "off the streets"?

DMT meets none of these criteria and thus it's safe. For now. If somebody goes on a shooting spree and is found with DMT on their person then the party is gonna end real quick.


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Offlinefundamentalchair
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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: jimbotron] * 1
    #11546036 - 11/28/09 10:30 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

TL;DR


Quote:

fastfred said:
The law doesn't want to get involved in dubious cases with questionable outcomes.  IMHO there's very little chance they will ever start trying to bust unprocessed material.  If they want to get you they'll just wait until you extract, then bust you.


-FF




QFT

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
One difference is that its pretty hard to make money extracting DMT, while its easy to make money with sassafras oil.

Given the number of people ordering it (thousands) vs. the number of busts for ordering it (zero), I believe it is safe. 

Probably overkill though.




1. You're doing it wrong.
2. Source on those claims?
3. One man's overkill is another mans stay out of jail pass. If (when) the hammer comes down, the man with overkill is less likely to get popped.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
It gets down to intent in a lot of situations.




Intent to commit a crime is illegal, even if factually there is an impossibility of committing a crime. If for example, you tried making meth with some vodka and a road flare and the cops proved that you intended to manufacture meth, you have then committed the crime of intent to manufacture even though you are full of fail (and even more full of fail for admiting it, as intent without the correct factual materials really tough).


Quote:

joemolloy said:
I wonder if large bulk transactions of MHRB are watched by the man.  If they're taking notes.




If I had to make an educated guess, I would say only very large shipments going to private residences or businesses without any foreseeable need coming from international sources.

To track the contents of a domestic shipment is rather tough to do legally, and unless it is coming from one of the above mentioned sources they probably won't be any the wiser.

Quote:

jimbotron said:
I've never had MHRB come in a bag labeled "Mimosa Hostilis Root Bark" either, so unless someone is suspiciously well-versed in this stuff they'd think it was some kinda mulch or maybe a horrible dietary supplement :tongue2:





Funny, all of my MHRB was labeled as such. Unless someone is suspiciously well-versed in this stuff, they wouldn't know what it was even if it was written on the box.

Quote:


You gotta understand that law enforcement and politicians have three things in mind when it comes to drugs:

1) Is it addictive?
2) Is it used primarily by the lower socioeconomic classes?
3) Is it well-known enough that authoritarian types will be impressed to hear that it's "off the streets"?





1. They don't really care.
2. They don't really care.
3. They might care somewhat.

A LEOs job is much like any other job. It's thankless, tedious, and for the most part sucks. What these people are looking for isn't any different that what you and I are looking for out of a job.

-Fame/appreciation/recognition
-More money/promotions

Sure, I will account that there are plenty of people who work as a LEO for the purpose of 'changing the world' or 'making the world a better place', but that's no different than a lot of people in a lot of other jobs. I am starting my own company to 1. become incredibly filthy rich and 2. to make the world a better place.

While I don't believe that it was your intent, many people demonize other groups with differing views. It's incorrect and stops logical thought. Most humans work within the same operational criteria and make logical decisions based on their beliefs and knowledge (or mis-knowledge).

Quote:


DMT meets none of these criteria and thus it's safe. For now. If somebody goes on a shooting spree and is found with DMT on their person then the party is gonna end real quick.




Yeah, well, the same can be said for rock-and-roll.

I beleive that the largest factors of a substance becoming illegal are:
1. Popularity
2. Public exposure

I would argue that it it weren't for Tymothy Leary (and similar antagonists), the chances of LSD would have been much lower or at absolute least greatly delayed.

Quote:


Do you think it is likely that eventually the feds will get around to busting vendors and buyers of MHRB?




That is an intensely complex question. For a single sentence, it speaks paragraphs. Short answer: not until they make MHRB a controlled substance.

As of now, MHRB is not controlled, yet it does contain a controlled substance. While I am not sure of the legal intricacies as to why MHRB/San Pedro/etc. is legal to possess these things. Perhaps someone else will be able to explain it fully.

The question of 'Will MHRB itself become controlled'? While no one knows for sure, I would guess that as long as there are no significant events (lab busts, or retarded kids posting trip videos like salvia) it most likely won't become illegal. With the current evolution of thought surrounding 'drugs', I would likely see many things get dropped from being scheduled first.

Quote:


While the bark is not specifically scheduled, it does contain DMT and it doesn't seem a stretch for law enforcement to accuse buyers of buying with the intent to extract DMT.




While I'm sure I'm going to get flamed by someone telling my I'm completely wrong, this is my take on intent.

I see two major ways of getting a conviction of intent. First is through admission and the second is through getting caught with all of the materials and apparatus required for an illegal process. The second is dependable with a good attorney and the correct surrounding conditions. Quite simply, if it looks like all you could be doing is something illegal, that's probably what you were intending. If it looks like you had the capability of doing something illegal but there is a chance (the stronger the chance the better) that you could be doing something else, you will probably get off.

As FF said above, unless they bust an active lab or someone with the needed apparatus/materials and illegal substances on them, it will be quite a fight to get a conviction. While cops/prosecuting attorney will try and peg anyone with anything they think they can get a conviction on, they know well enough that if the circumstances show a weak case and you lawyer up with someone with a price tag, they're pretty screwed. If you're 'busted', keep your mouth shut and know you're lawyers fee is worth your freedom.

As the case for going after suppliers/purchasers; there is a low chance of getting both a way to legally search someones residence and meeting the above criteria. Quite simply, if its a large purchase it's almost always a reseller or someone who has a industrial use for it. Small purchasers are most likely to be producers, however there may or may not be a great number of hobbiests that have a legitimate use for it. Small packages are also much much harder to track, often pass through multiple jurisdictions, and causes poor press when the cops raid a house who they don't get a conviction on.

Quote:

Yes, I know DMT is supposedly produced in our pineal gland yadda, yadda, yadda.




God, I hate Joe Rogan.

Quote:

But let's focus on MHRB for a moment and hear your thoughts.  Do you believe there is risk involved in buying this stuff?




There is a risk of buying anything that can at all be used for production of any sort of illegal activity. In small amounts obtained domestically, the risk should be no more than buying a water pipe.

Quote:

Do you think a judge would believe that you use it for incense, or for dying your clothes or for putting on your burns?




It doesn't really matter what the judge believes, it's weather or not there is reasonable doubt among 12 of your peers as to weather or not your intentions for such material were to harvest a illegal substance.

While it is the burden of the state to prove your intentions, your best means of evading such charges are being able to show that your intentions were to use it legitimately. If you say that you use it for legitimate purposes, any sort of supporting evidence will greatly increase the legitimacy of your statement. While it is feasible to use a defense of no purpose, or rather place in no testimony for the affirmative nor the negative, it will be much more difficult to succeed if you have all of the other available materials, especially in the same general location.

Quote:

Also, it seems like a pretty easy target for law enforcement.  They have many vendors who keep credit card records and/or addresses of buyers.

This is not like Ralphsters who only takes money orders and does not keep records.




There are a few different types of vendors (of anything, not just plant material).

1. Large/medium corporate vendors with a plethora of related goods: These are most likely to keep records but probably also the most likely to not hand over such records without a subpoena.
2. Independent/small corporations who sell related niche items: These vendors may keep addressing records for advertising purposes, but most likely don't keep a long term record of actual purchases beyond what is needed. While the computer revolution does have a higher chance of them trying to keep such information for employing advanced marketing strategies, if they don't have a professional website they probably don't hold on to the records intentionally any longer than needed. These are a bit of a coin toss, and will probably buckle at some LEO pressure, although there are probably many exceptions.
3. Independent persons/micro corporations: Sellers of only a few or one product. They probably are aware of the possibility of illegal use of their products. These companies have the highest chances of using this as a front to skim product off the top for moderate to large scale production. These would be very safe in terms of records, as they're either amateur and don't care about records (if they don't have a return policy, they probably don't keep them much after they get the delivery confirmation) or they intentionally have poor inventory accounting records (including invoices) so that no one can prove weather or not they sell 100% of their product.

When in doubt, ASK! Questions to a vendor aren't going to get the cops called on you (unless you ask a square how you can do something illegal). There are many people concerned with a great deal of privacy issues, and these are all legitimate concerns for every person. Try and keep in mind what sort of company you are doing business with first, as different questions will have better/worse effects on different organizations.

Here are some sample questions that someone may ask if they are concerned with the privacy of their transactions, or the level of their record keeping.

1. What is your privacy policy with regards to my address and billing information.
2. What sort of return policy do you have? How long do I have to return defective or damaged goods?
3. Do you send out regular catalogs? I am intrested in some of your products, can I be added to your mailing list for catalogs and specials?
4. How long do you keep purchasing records for?

If at all possible, ask these questions over the phone. Many people who run their own small business are poor typists, and there is a lot of information that is lost through the written word. Surely, a face to face would be best, but then you wouldn't have shipping concerns.

Keep in mind that if you are wrongly accused of intention to manufacture, it would probably be best that you are able to speak intelligently about your legitimate uses for your equipment (NOTE: DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS, EVER, FOR ANY REASON. IF YOU HAVE AN ENCOUNTER, ARE ARRESTED, ETC. REQUEST TO SPEAK WITH YOUR LAWYER. NOTHING YOU SAY CAN HELP YOUR CASE, YOUR LAWYER WILL BE ABLE TO ADVISE YOU WHAT TO TELL THE POLICE). For example, I have a friend of mine that has taken a large interest in making biodesiel. while he now has a reactor that fills his garage, I've seen him make it on his stove, particularly for titration. In the summer, he does a little side work with one of his friends cleaning and doing pool maintenance. His wife is really into the whole Renaissance festival crap, and uses all sorts of natural dyes for authentic period dress. I hear she makes some decent coin hawking them at the fair too. These people have no interest in any illegal activities, but oddly have all of the materials required to do an alkaloid extraction. It would be a shame if they were to be wrongly accused of production, but I believe that they can show enough evidence to quell the fears of anyone that they have any intention of using their materials in an illegitimate way.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: fundamentalchair] * 1
    #11549059 - 11/29/09 01:48 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Fund, you are busy indeed, that was quite a post. I agree with most of it but a lot depends on the circumstances with which you would probably agree. Intent is an often overlooked part of a crime, it's a major part of the mens rea or criminal state of mind needed for a crime to have been committed.

If someone has flowers in their garden and some happen to be opium poppies, they will not be prosecuted unless there is some evidence of intent to use the plants in an illegal way Confession may be good for the soul but it's bad for your liberty. Another example is if you opened a door accidentally knocking someone over who then died from the fall. Unless they can prove intent to harm then it will be ruled just an accident. However, if you open the door hoping it will cause someone to die and no harm is done, it's very unlikely there will be any prosecution. But if you confess you were trying to do that then it's a whole new ballgame.

In most cases of intent, some action must be made to further that intent to show it was serious. Simply saying "i'm going to make some meth" will go nowhere unless the person did something to further that aim. In the road flares and vodka example, they could be prosecuted in theory but in practice it might look like the da was trying to get someone and the jury is unlikely to convict. They really need more than a simple statement and the purchase of those two items but theoretically they can be convicted.

Hundreds of species of plants contain illegal substances. Unless you extract those substances or use the plants in a way indicating you plan to do so, i don't think they have any case.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #11549427 - 11/29/09 02:52 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Fund, you are busy indeed, that was quite a post.




Oh, I instigated that post.  I was impressed with  Fundamentalchair's previous posts and asked him to comment on this thread.  I am sure that posting on this thread helped keep him busy and off the streets!


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Offlinefundamentalchair
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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: joemolloy] * 1
    #11550628 - 11/29/09 05:44 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Fund, you are busy indeed, that was quite a post. I agree with most of it but a lot depends on the circumstances with which you would probably agree. Intent is an often overlooked part of a crime, it's a major part of the mens rea or criminal state of mind needed for a crime to have been committed.




In homicide, it is a big portion of the crime and not often overlooked. Some things are illegal regardless of intent, usually when done out of negligence. Most crimes intent is assumed, such as busting an active lab it would be impossible to say that there was no intent to have an active lab. Intent is difficult to prove, but will be perused legally if certain criteria are available.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
If someone has flowers in their garden and some happen to be opium poppies, they will not be prosecuted unless there is some evidence of intent to use the plants in an illegal way Confession may be good for the soul but it's bad for your liberty. Another example is if you opened a door accidentally knocking someone over who then died from the fall. Unless they can prove intent to harm then it will be ruled just an accident. However, if you open the door hoping it will cause someone to die and no harm is done, it's very unlikely there will be any prosecution. But if you confess you were trying to do that then it's a whole new ballgame.




This is a lot of my intent for my orgional post, but I glossed over most things at a fairly high level as I was trying to keep the post shorter than War and Peace.

I wouldn't use poppies as a parallel example, as the mechanism and tools needed are much too innocuous and common to ever really spur any case for intent without actually catching the process. Alkaloid extractions at the amateur level uses a bit more risque ingredients, and a large lab would have some pretty neat stuff.

If you are 'caught' with reaction grade acids and bases and lab glassware with plant material that contains alkaloids with no other chemistry related equipment... You may want to invest in a damn good alibi. Be weary of the man who has just enough glassware and chemicals to be dangerous, but not enough to appear as though a hobbyist.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
In most cases of intent, some action must be made to further that intent to show it was serious. Simply saying "i'm going to make some meth" will go nowhere unless the person did something to further that aim. In the road flares and vodka example, they could be prosecuted in theory but in practice it might look like the da was trying to get someone and the jury is unlikely to convict. They really need more than a simple statement and the purchase of those two items but theoretically they can be convicted.




There is a lot more involved with being accused of a crime than being either guilty or innocent. Mentioning at a party "I'm going to make some meth" shouldn't get you into any trouble, but try saying that to the LEO next time they ask you where you're going when you get pulled over for speeding.

Everything is in context, but I do assume the reader is well enough to use rational judgment. I assume that most people who come here to read (which are few compared to much else of the shroomery) are a bit more well versed in thinking of their safety than some random person from OTD for example.

Please do remember what it says in the miranda warning, "Everything you say can and WILL be used against you in the court of law."

Never admit to anything.


Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Hundreds of species of plants contain illegal substances. Unless you extract those substances or use the plants in a way indicating you plan to do so, i don't think they have any case.




It's all in context. For the guy who uses drano, pool cleaner, and some quart canning jars; he's probably pretty fucking safe. I am speaking to cover the scope of everything between the guy who buys a pound of MHRB a year to the guy who buys 100kg a month. The more complex and professional the setup, the easier it is to prove intent without busting an active lab.

Clandestine chemist's usually come in 2 varieties. Incredibly smart and incredibly stupid. The smart ones run a batch, clean their glass, move their product and close up shop. This fast-big-run with large breaks between runs is for safety. This allows for a very small window of opportunity for LEO to bust in while they are in a highly illegal activity. Also, it allows for the procurement of large amounts of material over a long period of time which is much less suspicious than a big buy.

The idea would be that a (smart) clandestine chemist works under the operating principal that being raided is inevitable. Since he knows that they will come at some random day with little to no warning, having a constantly working lab is very risky. However, if they bust him with no illegal substances but all the materials to make so, the worst he can get is intent which is much of a slap on the wrist in comparison to actually manufacturing. Also, intent is much more plausible to defend than actual manufacturing is.

Some guy who buys a pound off of ebay raises much less legal suspicion than some guy who buys 100kg from Mexico directly. Regular small purchases would fall somewhere in between the two. Now, if you do get heat from multiple small purchases and get raided, believe that LEO is going to try and peg your ass to the wall if they don't find you as operating an active lab. They will try to get you on absolutely anything they possibly can. You will get run through the wringer and possibly be 'hot' for years, but if they are able to peg you with anything it will be much less of a sentence than being convicted of manufacturing.

Quote:

joemolloy said:
I am sure that posting on this thread helped keep him busy and off the streets!




I would assume that it is apparent that I am much too paranoid to be 'on the streets'.

This is my only outlet of information regarding these sorts of topics, and my internet keeps me as anonymous as possible.


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OfflineSouthern Smoke
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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: fundamentalchair] * 1
    #11551780 - 11/29/09 08:45 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

i agree with Jimbotrons post

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Offlinejimbotron
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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: fundamentalchair] * 1
    #11553124 - 11/30/09 01:27 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fundamentalchair said:
Funny, all of my MHRB was labeled as such. Unless someone is suspiciously well-versed in this stuff, they wouldn't know what it was even if it was written on the box.




Whoever I bought it from in the past labeled it "incense sticks" :tongue2:

Quote:

Quote:


You gotta understand that law enforcement and politicians have three things in mind when it comes to drugs:

1) Is it addictive?
2) Is it used primarily by the lower socioeconomic classes?
3) Is it well-known enough that authoritarian types will be impressed to hear that it's "off the streets"?





1. They don't really care.
2. They don't really care.
3. They might care somewhat.




Well as far as addiction they sure CLAIM to care about that but alcohol, cigarettes, 'nuff said.

As to the lower classes, I think that's a big big part of it - 'chinamen' and opium, blacks and mexicans and weed. Now times may have changed insomuch as overt racial classism is no longer acceptable, but historically it is the norm:

http://www.druglibrary.org/SCHAFFER/history/negro_cocaine_fiends.htm

"NEGRO COCAINE 'FIENDS' NEW SOUTHERN MENACE. New York Times, Sunday February 8, 1914" (LOL :rolleyes:)

As for authoritarian types, I wasn't referring to the police at all. They don't ban things. Politicians do. I suspect salvia will be banned within a decade and, furthermore, that said ban will be wildly popular amongst the public -- you can buy it at any head shop nowadays, there's youtube videos of people getting whacked-out off of it, there's been scary newspaper articles, people are comparing it to LSD, and if one parent too many finds their kid with it they will call their congressman and very few politicians will want to be seen supporting salvia. It's only a matter of time, and that's to create a NEW 'crime'. Eliminating the "loophole" of MHRB is an easy way to 'get tough on crime'... the other last refuge of a scoundrel.

That said, from the standpoint of "you can't just buy some and get high off it" MHRB is to DMT as sudafed is to meth and I don't think DMT will ever have that kind of profile due to reasons 1 and 2. Unless something dramatically raises the profile of DMT, nobody is going to go after the kitchen chemists the way they did with meth cooks.

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Quote:


DMT meets none of these criteria and thus it's safe. For now. If somebody goes on a shooting spree and is found with DMT on their person then the party is gonna end real quick.




Yeah, well, the same can be said for rock-and-roll.

I beleive that the largest factors of a substance becoming illegal are:
1. Popularity
2. Public exposure

I would argue that it it weren't for Tymothy Leary (and similar antagonists), the chances of LSD would have been much lower or at absolute least greatly delayed.




In this day and age of 24/7 cable news, those two are probably more important. However, I disagree about Leary, he sure as hell didn't help but Nixon and his supporters weren't scared by his ramblings, they were just pissed off that the hippies were having better times and better sex than they ever did or would. And so... banzored!


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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: jimbotron] * 1
    #11555839 - 11/30/09 03:08 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Whoever I bought it from in the past labeled it "incense sticks" :tongue2:




Actual bark, and not powder I assume? Using it for dye, it is much easier to get it pre-powdered.

Quote:

As to the lower classes, I think that's a big big part of it - 'chinamen' and opium, blacks and mexicans and weed. Now times may have changed insomuch as overt racial classism is no longer acceptable, but historically it is the norm:




I personally attribute that effect to the prevalence of crime in poor locations. While I think that drug usage is about the same, regardless of socioeconomic status, the violence of the 'ghetto' quite frankly scares the shit out of the middle and upper class. It's an easy target.

Quote:

As for authoritarian types, I wasn't referring to the police at all. They don't ban things. Politicians do. I suspect salvia will be banned within a decade and, furthermore, that said ban will be wildly popular amongst the public -- you can buy it at any head shop nowadays, there's youtube videos of people getting whacked-out off of it, there's been scary newspaper articles, people are comparing it to LSD, and if one parent too many finds their kid with it they will call their congressman and very few politicians will want to be seen supporting salvia. It's only a matter of time, and that's to create a NEW 'crime'. Eliminating the "loophole" of MHRB is an easy way to 'get tough on crime'... the other last refuge of a scoundrel.




The executive, legislative, and media are so closely intertwined in our cultural climate, I often just lump them all together.

I kind of like to think of it as much of the incorrectly assumed correlation between prostitution and crime. The reason that crime surrounds prostitution is because it is a criminal act, not because trading sex for money draws in criminal behavior. It's a big dick waggling game that's used to try and compete for popularity.

Quote:

That said, from the standpoint of "you can't just buy some and get high off it" MHRB is to DMT as sudafed is to meth and I don't think DMT will ever have that kind of profile due to reasons 1 and 2. Unless something dramatically raises the profile of DMT, nobody is going to go after the kitchen chemists the way they did with meth cooks.




Relitivly speaking, I'm fairly ignorant about LEO's anti-meth lab procedures. Other than trying to monitor the purchase of some specific chemicals, unless the lab stank or blew up I didn't know they did anything about it.

The only reason that Salvia has a high profile is because it is obtainable, easy to consume and leagal (mostly). It has little to do with it's actual effects. Sure, I'm sure there are people who would continue to use if it became illegal, but I don't see it as having the same 'curb appeal' as weed. I would also place DMT in this same category.

As more things become illegal, the desire to become fucked up legally doesn't really change. As things become illegal, other substitutes move in. If propagation though this pattern is allowed to happen, MHRB will one day become closely watched. I pray that people wise up and realize the relative low risk of consumption of mind altering substances and understand the personal freedom of other people to do what they want.

Quote:

In this day and age of 24/7 cable news, those two are probably more important. However, I disagree about Leary, he sure as hell didn't help but Nixon and his supporters weren't scared by his ramblings, they were just pissed off that the hippies were having better times and better sex than they ever did or would. And so... banzored!




I don't mean to single Leary out, but he makes for a good poster boy for condoning drug use.

I really don't think that the entire process of drug scare tactics have changed much over the years, just the proliferation of information and media. If Leary et al. would have just kept their fucking mouths shut and left it as a fairly private endeavor, the proliferation of this substance would have been much less and been much less of a threat to the republican administration.

Had only a few hundred hippies had better sex/parties than nixon, he probably wouldn't have known nor cared, much is the same way with DMT. Get some college prof to go shouting around to drop out of school and smoke DMT for enlightenment... Well, let's hope Obama smoked a lot of grass in college.


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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: joemolloy] * 1
    #11561078 - 12/01/09 09:15 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

There was a case in France where someone was tried for using Ayahuasca,they found him not guilty of the crime even though there was evidence that he had consumed a controlled substance, but the judge just didn't consider ayahuasca to be a preparation of a controlled substance because of its history and sacramental value.The fuckers later proceeded to ban all plants that can be used to make Ayahuasca or analogues:facepalm:


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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: 13.step] * 1
    #11561214 - 12/01/09 09:46 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

13.step said:
There was a case in France where someone was tried for using Ayahuasca,they found him not guilty of the crime even though there was evidence that he had consumed a controlled substance, but the judge just didn't consider ayahuasca to be a preparation of a controlled substance because of its history and sacramental value.The fuckers later proceeded to ban all plants that can be used to make Ayahuasca or analogues:facepalm:




While I find it sad, I also find it re leaving to know that this lunacy isn't contained to the U.S.

Sadly, I'm not really surprised.

It seems that the only governmental logical thoughts on freedom come from the self-proclaimed 3rd world countries in south America. Habla espenyol?


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Re: Arrested for Mimosa Hostilis? [Re: fundamentalchair] * 1
    #11561498 - 12/01/09 10:35 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

What countries do you mean?

France has some of the most fucked-up drug laws I've seen,you can be put in prison for advocating drug use...


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