Home | Community | Message Board


RVF Garden Supply
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Is anything we do unselfish?
    #1149790 - 12/17/02 06:31 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Even when we do something that seems unselfish, we are still only doing it because it brings us hapiness, or because we want to seem unselfish in the eyes of other people. These are both selfish reasons in my opinion.

Can anyone think of anything we do that is not motivated by personal gain?


--------------------
Namaste.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1149795 - 12/17/02 06:34 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

doing something for other people for other people


--------------------
What?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1149801 - 12/17/02 06:37 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

But even if we do that, we are doing it on some level because the other people will like us for doing something for the other people. There is still personal gain involved.

I think Plato is right... We are all selfish bastards.


--------------------
Namaste.


Edited by RebelSteve33 (12/17/02 06:37 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXibalba
Stranger
Registered: 05/14/00
Posts: 2,114
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1149802 - 12/17/02 06:37 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I disagree. And I don't even think you're that cynical that you've never done something for another person or people just because you wanted for them to be happy.

It's true that all altruistic acts usually have some direct or indirect benefit to the person doing them, (call it karma) but that doesn't mean that is everyone's motivation.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: Xibalba]
    #1149808 - 12/17/02 06:41 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Does it have to be your motivation for it to be selfish? On some subconscious level, you know that doing that nice thing for someone else will make you feel really good inside. I still think it's selfish.

Perhaps we just have different definitions of the word selfish. It is difficult when dealing with abstract concepts because each person has their own connotation of what the concepts mean.

Perhaps I should simply ask:

"Do we ever do anything that will not result in some sort of personal gain?"


--------------------
Namaste.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEarth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 5,240
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1149855 - 12/17/02 07:01 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps meditate, I think that is all.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1149868 - 12/17/02 07:06 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

"Do we ever do anything that will not result in some sort of personal gain?"

I have kicked myself and banged my head against the wall many times before.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1150408 - 12/18/02 12:46 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

This is actually what Ayn Rand teaches and it is called Objectivist Ethics. The fact is that none of us does anything without getting some kind of payment, either direct or indirect, for our efforts.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 month, 1 hour
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1150413 - 12/18/02 12:51 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Why do you meditate?


--------------------
Always Smi2le


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1151077 - 12/18/02 09:00 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

As long as one believes in the illusion of self, one cannot be unselfish.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineKaneda
QUALITY!!1!
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 13
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: Nomad]
    #1151120 - 12/18/02 09:19 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

"Do we ever do anything that will not result in some sort of personal gain?"

Nope, the only way you help someone unselfishly, is to not know you are helping them! There is no other way.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSnuffelzFurever
Psychonaut

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 734
Loc: Miami, florida
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1151306 - 12/18/02 10:24 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

im glad you posted this, as on the walk home from school, i thought about posting the exact same thing :-)

you see, i love making people happy. not because i gain anything, just because i love to see people happy. but then, wouldnt i be doing it for myself? because i cant stand seeing people unhappy? is there anyway to completely liberate myself from this way of making people happy, that would allow me to selflessly devote myself?

but i know i would derive pleasure from doing this, because it is what i want to do.... blah.

i need to shoot my ego in the head....


--------------------
"I think it's time we stop
Children, What's the sound,
Everybody look what's going down"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: ]
    #1151349 - 12/18/02 10:36 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, here's a thought. I can't stand giving money to beggars because I believe if they get enough money, it will encourage them to remain beggars, which does nothing to benefit society, and actually reduces my own well being.

Now, in spite of passionately hating to give out free handouts, I find myself giving to a beggar every now and then, just for his own sake (I guess). Afterwords, I am always pissed off at myself, and DON'T feel good about what I've done. Was this a selfless act???


--------------------
:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1151363 - 12/18/02 10:45 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Ayn Rand would say no. You gave because of some inner motivation that got you a payback at some level. Perhaps deep down inside you wish to ease their suffering and you feel bad because you sometimes think you are too hard on them. So at times you do not give and make yourself feel good because you are contributing to society but then that breaks down and you give to the beggars to balance it out but then flip back to your stronger mode and when you do you feel bad.

Or conversely you enjoy feeling bad so you give at times to feel what you enjoy, namely feeling bad.

Ayn Rand says there is no way around this.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: ]
    #1151376 - 12/18/02 10:49 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I guess Ayn's probably right.  ANYTHING someone does must have some sort of motivation behind it.  Even if I did something just to prove Ayn wrong, then you could argue that I was motivated by the pleasure of trying to prove him wrong.  :tongue: 

Edit:  "you could argue that I was motivated by the pleasure of trying to prove HER wrong."  :wink:


--------------------
:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


Edited by GoBlue! (12/18/02 11:06 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1151396 - 12/18/02 10:55 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I sort of agree except for one thing.

Any Rand is a she. :wink:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: ]
    #1152341 - 12/18/02 04:33 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Not doing anything at all. lol


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offline3eyedgod
trippinkid

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
Loc: Far away and very near
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1152406 - 12/18/02 05:01 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Even when we do something that seems unselfish, we are still only doing it because it brings us hapiness, or because we want to seem unselfish in the eyes of other people. These are both selfish reasons in my opinion.


Is anything we do selfish? 

Maybe I do things which will make me feel good (or for personal gain), because when I feel good I'm a better person to be around.  So by doing things for "selfish" reasons, i'm actually being unselfish by making myself more pleasant and less of an asshole.

hehe :grin:


--------------------
Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1152410 - 12/18/02 05:02 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

What if you give your life for someone else?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Is anything we do unselfish? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1152418 - 12/18/02 05:07 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Actually, I never thought of that before. I think that's really the only unselfish thing we could ever do.


--------------------
Namaste.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* How to 'Be Saved'
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
OrgoneConclusion 4,302 121 10/30/08 11:18 PM
by Sleepwalker
* Enlightenment vs. Being Saved
( 1 2 all )
OrgoneConclusion 1,431 29 12/16/08 06:40 PM
by xFrockx
* Risk-takers
( 1 2 3 all )
Swami 2,032 48 07/15/04 03:36 PM
by Strumpling
* Desire & Satisfaction
( 1 2 all )
Sinbad 2,288 22 03/03/07 01:40 PM
by Sinbad
* The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! EchoVortex 1,514 10 02/20/02 11:17 AM
by Tannis
* Anxiety/Fear, Anger/Rage, Depression/Sorrow.
( 1 2 all )
Grapefruit 2,114 26 10/28/08 10:33 PM
by redgreenvines
* existential anguish
( 1 2 all )
Icelander 1,008 23 10/22/08 07:40 PM
by Icelander
* Save the BEES......
( 1 2 3 all )
PhanTomCat 2,395 47 04/25/09 09:06 PM
by Middleman

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
1,227 topic views. 2 members, 6 guests and 3 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Mushrooms.com
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.044 seconds spending 0.002 seconds on 16 queries.