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OfflinePreparationH
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Belgian PM "first EU president"
    #11490701 - 11/20/09 04:29 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/11/19/eu.presidency/index.html

what do you europeans think about this?
You didn't even vote on this guy.


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InvisibleblewmeanieS
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: PreparationH]
    #11490978 - 11/20/09 06:44 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

What does the president of the EU do anyway? It seems like they're still figuring it all out as they go along.


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InvisibleAdden
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: PreparationH]
    #11491078 - 11/20/09 07:38 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Wow they're brutally fuckin honest huh?

Quote:

Public backing from Italy's Silvio Berlusconi, a joke figure to much of Europe and another Bush ally, did not help.




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Invisiblememes
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: Adden]
    #11491261 - 11/20/09 08:55 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Damn that is a surprise.  The Economist has been printing articles for weeks about how they expected taht Britain guy to get the job (Gordon Brown? Tony Blair? i forget).  FIgures that a UK magazine would be pushin their UK candidate.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: PreparationH]
    #11491265 - 11/20/09 08:55 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
what do you europeans think about this?




You and I both know this guy beats the crap out of the alternative...you know who. Srsly, I think this may be the appropriate man for the job.

Quote:

You didn't even vote on this guy.



Democracy is overrated. If we did get to vote for this position, we probably would have ended up with someone like Berlusconi. Fat chance we would have been better off.

The interesting thing of course is: how are English and American journalists going to pronounce van Rompuy's name? :laugh: That alone makes him the perfect man for the job.

Quote:

meams said:
Damn that is a surprise.  The Economist has been printing articles for weeks about how they expected taht Britain guy to get the job (Gordon Brown? Tony Blair? i forget).  FIgures that a UK magazine would be pushin their UK candidate.



No matter what the Economist may have written, Brown hasn't been a serious candidate, due to him not being obscure enough.


Edited by koraks (11/20/09 08:58 AM)


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Offline13.step
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: Adden]
    #11491295 - 11/20/09 09:03 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

He has no executive powers.His job is just to coordinate the work of the European council and to report to the European parliament.He also represents Europe in foreign affairs along with the high representative.

He is not equal to any head of state around the world.President of Europe is just what the press called him.The position he is in existed before this but the way they filled it was by rotation among the member states every 6 months.After the Lisabona treaty was approved they changed the election process to what it is now.

Maybe in the future when the president will get more power we'll get to vote but until then it doesn't really matter.The parliament is what really matters and that is elected by the citizens.

I don't believe that a president with more power would do the EU any good as it would really detract from the important administrative issues and turn the whole process into a media circus like we see around the world.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: 13.step]
    #11491301 - 11/20/09 09:05 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

It has been remarked that the 'election' process of the Eu 'president' is less democratic than the election of a new pope. Somehow, I find that a funny, but appropriate comparison.


Edited by koraks (11/20/09 09:05 AM)


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: koraks]
    #11491316 - 11/20/09 09:12 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
No matter what the Economist may have written, Brown hasn't been a serious candidate, due to him not being obscure enough.



Hrm.  I'm intrigued behind the reasoning for this.  I would think that a prominent figurehead for the president of the EU would/should be someone the whole world over can identify with.  In the public eye, this particular position is the EU counterpart to Obama & Mao.  The main 3 economic engines in teh world:  US, China, EU.

What are the advantages to an obscure pres?  I'm not knocking their decision, just intrigued behind the resoning.


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Offline13.step
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: koraks]
    #11491340 - 11/20/09 09:20 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

lol...

It's a European thing dude...

But seriously...i don't quite get how they chose him,it seems that someone proposed him and the others all said:yeah sure,why not...he was backed by all 27 member states.

@meams:It was Tony Blair the former prime-minister and they didn't choose him because they said he was a dividing force in the EU...but i agree i don't see why they would choose somebody who is obscure.I think they choose van Rompuy as an homage to Belgium and because he was the best candidate not because he was obscure,or maybe they just don't want to make a big deal out of the presidency.


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Edited by 13.step (11/20/09 09:25 AM)


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: 13.step]
    #11491343 - 11/20/09 09:22 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

13.step said:
...he was backed by all 27 member states.



big votes like that are arranged in advance, i'm sure.  decisions made that affect an aggregate group of people are less likely to face dissention from the public if it appears everyone is on board.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: memes]
    #11491351 - 11/20/09 09:24 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I wonder who will be appointed the president of the American Union once it is formed.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #11491356 - 11/20/09 09:27 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Obviously whoever the most popular senator from wichever political party is either (a)in power [if times are good]; or (b)is not in power [if times are bad]


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: memes]
    #11491363 - 11/20/09 09:29 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I think there are a few reasons behind this. Please note that I'm fairly cynical as to this subject, but I'll try to be as objective as possible.

1. I agree that this function is to a large extent externally oriented, but don't forget that the position of a EU 'president' can only work if the person has (and holds) commitment from the member states. Hence, it is important to have someone who does not represent too fiercely the interests of one of the more powerful member states. Simply put: if Brown would have gotten the job, the French would have been unhappy. The same story with Merckel and Sarkozy, but they weren't nominated in any case, to the best of my knowledge.

2. As a society, we are extremely risk averse here in Europe. The last thing we want is a president who brings along a closet with dusty skeletons hidden inside. Fact of the matter is that the more outspoken a person is, the more he is likely to have come into conflict with someone or some interest group. And such an individual or fraction may do anything to bring out any skeletons, or create some if none are available. Brown is a person who has had ample opportunity to ventilate his opinions. One of those opinions, or political stances if you will, is his fairly articulate support of US policies regarding intervention in the Middle East, in particular Iraq and Afghanistan. As you may know, support of those interventions has never been very high among Europeans, and Brown's support of the US may have made friends in the States, but it certainly has made him a few enemies in Europe. Now take a look at van Rompuy: nobody has ever heard of this guy before, and even in Belgium itself he used to be an obscure and anonymous (non-)person until he emerged as the apparent savior of the Belgion presidency, which had been subject to considerable turmoil before (and will now continue to be, but that's a different story).

So, in short, Brown had the disadvantage not so much of having the wrong sort of reputation, but of having a reputation altogether. The election of van Rompuy is not necessarily a sign of sound reasoning, but it certainly is a sign of the vacuum in which European politics has locked itself.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: koraks]
    #11491367 - 11/20/09 09:31 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

On a more positive note, I sincerely believe that van Rompuy is probably a very capable person. The big question remains: what is he exactly capable of? Only time will tell.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: memes]
    #11491370 - 11/20/09 09:32 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Obviously whoever the most popular senator from wichever political party is either (a)in power [if times are good]; or (b)is not in power [if times are bad]




pretty sad that the criterion is so simple for an office that would hold so much power, eh?


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Offline13.step
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: memes]
    #11491377 - 11/20/09 09:34 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

His powers are limited so it doesn't really matter anyway...but was there a vote?I am still unclear on that,it just says that he was backed by all 27,not that they voted for him.

I hope this won't turn into some media shit-storm because he wasn't democratically elected because he really isn't much more then a glorified secretary...


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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: 13.step]
    #11491395 - 11/20/09 09:40 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

didn't hear about it until it was over, oh well.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: 13.step]
    #11491400 - 11/20/09 09:41 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

To the best of my knowledge, there was no vote. There was a dinner, and the appointed candidate somehow 'emerged'. This doesn't seem very democratic, but then again, I already remarked that democracy tends to be overrated, so this method (whatever it exactly entails) is not necessarily inferior to a democratic election.


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Offline13.step
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: koraks]
    #11491410 - 11/20/09 09:46 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

There was a dinner, and the appointed candidate somehow 'emerged'




:lol:

Imagine him getting out of a cake at the end of the dinner...sorry that picture came to mind for a moment.

If he was chosen from within a group by that group doesn't that mean that there was a democratic process,even if it doesn't involve formal voting?


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InvisibleOlympus Mons
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Re: Belgian PM "first EU president" [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #11491432 - 11/20/09 09:54 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I wonder who will be appointed the president of the American Union once it is formed.



mmmm one world government  :drooling:





fantastic album by the way


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