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Offlinecrvskate
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Amanita muscaria Question
    #11479116 - 11/18/09 02:59 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

So i found some A. muscaria by my house.

I was wondering how much i take and how to take it to have a nice trip.

I read that in old days people use to eat these to see the gods. :mushroom2:





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Offlinepernifiltrator
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: crvskate]
    #11479189 - 11/18/09 03:11 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

air dry them outside someplace first. Just use the caps. Then put them in the oven and bake them at 170 degrees for about an hour. This converts ibotenic acid into muscimol. Muscimol is what you trip on. The other just makes you sick. Or you could be crazy and just eat them as is, but i would recommend drying then baking. Erowid.org has alot of amazing information on that mushroom as well as many other substances. You should always research as much as you can so you know what you're dealing with. And for dose, i wouldn't go over 15 grams you're first time, unless you're absolutely sure, and can handle lol. I'm planning to go 7-10grams once i get a hold of some.

Edited by pernifiltrator (11/18/09 03:14 PM)

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Offlinecrvskate
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: pernifiltrator]
    #11479247 - 11/18/09 03:21 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Yea but how much is 7-8 grams?

Like 1 large cap?


there so easy to find by my place.

i live in oregon, so there everywhere.

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Offlinepernifiltrator
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: crvskate]
    #11479291 - 11/18/09 03:27 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

well, i would get a scale. When they dry out they weigh like 90% less. So 10 grams would become 1 gram. So you need about 70-100 grams fresh. Lol go into a grocery store and stick em on the scale in the vegi section. Or find someone with one or buy one. Sounds crazy finding those. They dont grow where i live, so i'm probably gunna just buy some.

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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: crvskate]
    #11479306 - 11/18/09 03:29 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

It really has nothing to do with the amount you take (sort of), the problem with the Amanita Muscaria is it's a mushroom that chooses what journey it wants to take you on or if it doesn't want to give you any journey at all (The potency also varies GREATLY between different A. Muscaria mushrooms, sometimes one could provide you with one effect and another could provide you with a completely different effect. Seasons also effect this variance).

Which is why you hear stories of people taking massive amounts of them (in the ounce range) and not feeling anything (but slight inebriation similar to being drunk), to people having only a few grams and having an extremely profound life-changing experience.

Sometimes it takes a couple of times before people have any experiences with them. It's the type of entheogen that takes the saying "YMMV" (Your Mileage May Vary) to a whole new level. You will want to experiment with them, especially if you easily have access to them in the wild (the best specimens as opposed to buying from an online vendor).

Try all the different methods, if you do a quick search on this forum there are many. From eating them fresh, to eating them dry, to making them into a brew or tea, to cooking with them on a daily basis, dropping them in wine or even dropping them in orange juice, even smoking them.

It took me many tries, in many different methods of administration, and amounts to finally have a ++++ on them.

With that said, you must find out yourself how the mushroom reacts with your body.

Hope you find what you're looking for.

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Invisiblethedudenj
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #11482835 - 11/18/09 11:03 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
It really has nothing to do with the amount you take (sort of), the problem with the Amanita Muscaria is it's a mushroom that chooses what journey it wants to take you on or if it doesn't want to give you any journey at all (The potency also varies GREATLY between different A. Muscaria mushrooms, sometimes one could provide you with one effect and another could provide you with a completely different effect. Seasons also effect this variance).

Which is why you hear stories of people taking massive amounts of them (in the ounce range) and not feeling anything (but slight inebriation similar to being drunk), to people having only a few grams and having an extremely profound life-changing experience.

Sometimes it takes a couple of times before people have any experiences with them. It's the type of entheogen that takes the saying "YMMV" (Your Mileage May Vary) to a whole new level. You will want to experiment with them, especially if you easily have access to them in the wild (the best specimens as opposed to buying from an online vendor).

Try all the different methods, if you do a quick search on this forum there are many. From eating them fresh, to eating them dry, to making them into a brew or tea, to cooking with them on a daily basis, dropping them in wine or even dropping them in orange juice, even smoking them.

It took me many tries, in many different methods of administration, and amounts to finally have a ++++ on them.

With that said, you must find out yourself how the mushroom reacts with your body.

Hope you find what you're looking for.





lol good advice for him


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Offlinedecember333111
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: thedudenj]
    #11499836 - 11/21/09 04:32 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i took one big cap, 8g dried, and cooked it in soup. strange effects. the only way i can describe the feeling is that it felt like i was bouncing around. then i would fall asleep, then wake up and feel completely sober, until i started moving, then i would be bouncing around again. i was pretty indifferent to it, it wasn't euphoric, it wasn't scary. i can't say i liked or didn't like it


--------------------
Love and Light
.evolve.

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Offlineoxalic32
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. [Re: december333111]
    #11499855 - 11/21/09 04:37 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

.

Edited by oxalic32 (12/19/10 10:00 PM)

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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: oxalic32]
    #11499907 - 11/21/09 04:47 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

You do not need to heat the mushroom to a certain temp to convert the actives nor does it become more potent by drinking your piss.


Ibotenic acid is converted to muscimol naturally during the drying process.

Ibotenic acid is not converted in the body into muscimol.

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Offlineoxalic32
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. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11499993 - 11/21/09 05:04 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

.

Edited by oxalic32 (12/19/10 10:00 PM)

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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: oxalic32]
    #11500111 - 11/21/09 05:21 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I didnt say your urine isnt active.

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Offlineoxalic32
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. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11500149 - 11/21/09 05:26 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

.

Edited by oxalic32 (12/19/10 10:00 PM)

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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: oxalic32]
    #11500177 - 11/21/09 05:29 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

You sir, are correct.

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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11502189 - 11/22/09 12:15 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

You don't need to drink urine when you can use alternatives with similar acidity levels, like mixing both Lemon and Lime juice together. Squeeze a full Lemon and full Lime into a shot glass, then add finely ground A. muscaria bits (almost like a powder)- let it sit there and soak for at least 15 mins. This method practically mimics the effects of urine - anyone who has used the traditional Lemon Tek method will concur.

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Invisiblethedudenj
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #11502520 - 11/22/09 01:53 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

personally i prefer them 2 parts amanita 1 part cream that has a crazy reaction and effect.

aside from that if you know how to hold your fluids and have a good diet you should get the full effect from eating them


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #11502738 - 11/22/09 04:13 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
You don't need to drink urine when you can use alternatives with similar acidity levels, like mixing both Lemon and Lime juice together. Squeeze a full Lemon and full Lime into a shot glass, then add finely ground A. muscaria bits (almost like a powder)- let it sit there and soak for at least 15 mins. This method practically mimics the effects of urine - anyone who has used the traditional Lemon Tek method will concur.




Mimics urine? this make no sense.

What is it you think the urine does?

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Invisiblethedudenj
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11503430 - 11/22/09 10:41 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

yeah i have to agree i dont think lemon juice is gona do the same thing as your liver and metabolize drugs at all


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11504062 - 11/22/09 12:43 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HerbBaker said:
Quote:

BiG_StroOnZ said:
You don't need to drink urine when you can use alternatives with similar acidity levels, like mixing both Lemon and Lime juice together. Squeeze a full Lemon and full Lime into a shot glass, then add finely ground A. muscaria bits (almost like a powder)- let it sit there and soak for at least 15 mins. This method practically mimics the effects of urine - anyone who has used the traditional Lemon Tek method will concur.




Mimics urine? this make no sense.

What is it you think the urine does?




Compare the pH levels of urine and of a lemon or lime, it makes perfect sense. I'm not sure what exactly is in urine or what is in Lemon or Lime juice that increases the potency of both Psilocybes and A. Muscaria, I just know it does.

Quote:

thedudenj said:
yeah i have to agree i dont think lemon juice is gona do the same thing as your liver and metabolize drugs at all




never said it has the same effect as passing through your liver

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #11504098 - 11/22/09 12:49 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

The shamans didn't drink the urine because of the pH... They drank the urine because it had muscimol in it...

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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: BothHands]
    #11504192 - 11/22/09 01:02 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
The shamans didn't drink the urine because of the pH... They drank the urine because it had muscimol in it...




They would drink their Urine immediately after they consumed the Mushroom also, this has nothing to do with passing the urine to another to give them the effects of the A. muscaria.  Obviously, the Mushroom hasn't passed through the body yet, if you eat it and then consume your urine immediately after.

I guess you never heard of Urine Therapy?

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #11504276 - 11/22/09 01:15 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Well, I just looked up urine therapy.  I suppose they could have been doing this, but how do you know they did it to potentiate the A. Muscaria high?  How do you know they were interested in the pH?  Perhaps they drank piss all the time for "health benefits."

I found this and thought it was hilarious:

Quote:

Obvious experimental difficulties (particularly in constructing a double-blind clinical trial)




They were talking about testing whether there was actually a benefit in drinking urine.

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OfflineCoheed88
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: BothHands]
    #11504369 - 11/22/09 01:28 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

lol. Well.. quickly they would have realized that it does potentiate the high. And health benefits aside, surely this was beneficial.


--------------------
You don't like yourself, but you admire yourself - it's all you've got, so you cling to it. You're so afraid that if you change, you'll lose what makes you special. Being miserable doesn't make you better than anyone else, it just makes you miserable..

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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: BothHands]
    #11504372 - 11/22/09 01:28 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
Well, I just looked up urine therapy.  I suppose they could have been doing this, but how do you know they did it to potentiate the A. Muscaria high?  How do you know they were interested in the pH?  Perhaps they drank piss all the time for "health benefits."

I found this and thought it was hilarious:

Quote:

Obvious experimental difficulties (particularly in constructing a double-blind clinical trial)




They were talking about testing whether there was actually a benefit in drinking urine.




That's my point, we still don't know why "Lemon Tek" works, we just know it does (for most people). The same goes for Shamans consuming Urine with their A. Muscaria. My only conclusion or theory is it has something to do with both the acidity levels of Urine and the acidity levels of fruits like Lemons or Limes. Perhaps they both have a similar alkaloid that effects active Mushrooms.

We do know that in those times, as you saw, "Urine Therapy" was popular.  Just the question is, since most of the cultures that have used Urine Therapy were for the most part, also entheogen consuming civilizations - is at what point did they realize or discover that mixing Urine with this particular Mushroom was a necessity, and how they even figured out that every time the A. Muscaria passed through the body, the stronger it became (in the Urine).

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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #11504502 - 11/22/09 01:48 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Your not listening.. it does not become stronger by passing through the body nor does the "lemon tek" do anything.

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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11504513 - 11/22/09 01:49 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HerbBaker said:
Your not listening.. it does not become stronger by passing through the body nor does the "lemon tek" do anything.




You're not listening, it does become stronger after passing through the body, and lemon tek does do something.

I've tried both methods personally, have you?

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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #11504597 - 11/22/09 02:05 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

You got subjective experience..
Ibotenic acid is decarboxylated into muscimol during the drying process; when pure ibotenic acid is eaten virtually no muscimol is eliminated in the urine. What this means is there is no conversion happening inside the body.

Most all the ibotenic acid will be easily converted into muscimole as long as you dried them thoroughly, perhaps some conversion is hastened by ph extremes but i would think it unnecessary.

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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11504756 - 11/22/09 02:32 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HerbBaker said:
Ibotenic acid is decarboxylated into muscimol during the drying process; when pure ibotenic acid is eaten virtually no muscimol is eliminated in the urine. What this means is there is no conversion happening inside the body.

Most all the ibotenic acid will be easily converted into muscimole as long as you dried them thoroughly, perhaps some conversion is hastened by ph extremes but i would think it unnecessary.




None of this has still been factually proven though. Which is why people can consume a fresh A. Muscaria mushroom and still experience the effects greatly. Even more questionable is that there's "no conversion happening inside the body," when we know the body operates at 98.6 °F.

We also don't know if it is actually the Ibotenic acid and Muscimol that are providing the active components of the mushroom. Mainly because we don't know much about these compounds.

We don't know if these compounds increase the body temperature or if they increase the endogenous DMT levels, we simply don't know what Ibotentic acid or Muscimol does in actuality, and why it provides the effects it does (besides the fact that Muscimol is a GABA agonist). 

Edited by BiG_StroOnZ (11/22/09 02:57 PM)

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Invisiblethedudenj
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: BothHands]
    #11508010 - 11/22/09 11:07 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
The shamans didn't drink the urine because of the pH... They drank the urine because it had muscimol in it...





IE metabolism by liver


any who fresher is better any way...


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Offlineoxalic32
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. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11508128 - 11/22/09 11:28 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

.

Edited by oxalic32 (12/19/10 09:59 PM)

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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: oxalic32]
    #11509007 - 11/23/09 04:31 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I never said the piss wasnt active, i helped write that wiki article.

Heres some more info ive collected.

A substantial fraction of ingested ibotenic acid is excreted in the urine unmetabolized. Virtually no muscimol is excreted when pure ibotenic acid is eaten, but muscimol is detectable in the urine after eating A. muscaria, which contains both, ibotenic acid and muscimol. The ibotenic acid that does pass through the body is excreted rapidly, between 20 and 90 minutes after ingestion (Chilton, 1975).


"Nielsen and coworkers independently explored the nonenzymatic decarboxylation of ibotenic acid, reporting that ibotenic acid was stable in watereven at 378C overnight and only after its exposure to boiling water at pH  extremes over the course of several hours was any decarboxylation to muscimol noted"

Ibotenic acid and muscimol have similar structure to glutamic acid and GABA(Krogsgaard-arsen P. et al.,2000).

Ibotenic acid is structurally similar to glutaminic acid and mimics its effects in animals. Ibotenic acid is rapidly converted to muscimol, which structurally resembles GABA. Muscimol has a high affinity for GABA receptor sites and imitates the action of GABA in animals and humans, inhibiting and controlling the recruitment and multiplication of nerve impulses mediated by many positive neurotrasmitters (Page, 1984).

Muscimol and ibotenic acid administered to rats and mice intraperitoneally affects brain in the levels of serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine), noradrenaline and dopamine as do LSD, Psilocybin  and Mescaline  (Koenig-Bersin et al., 1970; Waser, 1979).


Muscmol binds to the same GABA receptors as benzodiazepines and barbiturates.
GABA regulates anxiety, learning and neuronal excitability.
Low doses of muscimol show anticonvulsant and antispasmodic activity; much like Valium.
Higher doses work as both a stimulant, anticonvulsant and deliriant.

I think there is great potential for muscimol as a treatment for seasonal depression, anxiety, phobias, ADD, as a sleep aid, weight control and maybe even epilepsy.
It doesn't work for everyone; what drug does. One thing is clear, the history of the chemistry of Amanita muscaria demonstrates the tortuous path and halting progress of science.
The muscaria chemotaxonomic group of Amanitas  contain no amatoxins or phallotoxins, and are not hepatoxic.


http://www.namyco.org/toxicology<wbr>/poison_syndromes.html
NAMA in regards to the above mushrooms.
"In humans, there are no reliably documented cases of death from toxins in these mushrooms in the past 100 years, though there is one case where a camper froze to death while in the comatose state."

Neither muscarinic nor tropinic effects have been observed in poisoning due to A. muscaria or A. pantherina. Occasionally, sweating and salivation have been reported (Lampe, 1978; Waser, 1979; Benjamin, 1992).
Seizures are observed primarily in children (Benjamin, 1992).Miosis as well as mydriasis or intermittent mydriasis were observed in children (Benjamin, 1992)


As early as 1900, George Atkins wrote in his book, Studies of American Fungi, that while the mushroom is “deadly as ordinarily found,” it is eaten “. . . as food in parts of France & Russia, and it has been eaten repeatedly in certain localities in this country without harm.”

In fact, the urine retains the pharmacological activity of the Fly Agaric, and in the sacred rituals in eastern Siberia, the urine of the Shamans and their acolytes was ingested by some followers and considered a better inebriant or hallucinogen (Efron et al 1979).

The isoxazoles are not distributed uniformly in the mushroom. Most are detected in the cap of the fruit, then in the base,with the smallest amount in the stalk (Lampe, 1978; Tsunoda et al., 1993).

Drying A. muscaria in the sun or with heater caused an increase of muscimol in the mushroom, though a lot of precursors of ibotenic acid was lost.
Ibotenic acid and muscimol in the mushroom were stable on storage under dry or salt conditions (Benedict et al., 1966; Tsunoda et al., 1993).
Whilst ibotenic acid and muscimol are rapidly released from the mushrooms by cooking and boiling, these processes do not eliminate all toxic substances.


"As usually used by people in this country, large quantities of the rather nauseating dry mushrooms are imbibed, the person gets sick for a while, then has a rather fearful and scary trip. Thus, the rather grim reputation of muscaria gets perpetuated. People who gather it from the wild and eat it by mistake usually get hysterical when they feel the onset of nausea and psychic effects and have a royal freak-out (it starts with, "I've eaten a poisonous mushroom! I'm going to die!!!"). This also perpetuates the dark repute of what is probably Mother Nature's finest winter tonic and a wonderfully benign life-enhancer WHEN PROPERLY USED! Why do I seem to be the only modern person who has ever thought of using this stuff in a safe and sane manner? People are less original than they think, and ancient tribal taboos are more potent than supposedly sophisticated modern academics realise...

I have used Amanita muscaria continuously for several months at a time, and I think it is a real health-enhancer when correctly used. The key factor is dosage.

Basically, use no more than 1 to 2 tablespoons at a time, and no more than about half a cup in a day. If muscaria agrees with you, you can use it every day if you like throughout the cooler months of the year. I think it is too warming for the hot days of summer, but fine the rest of the year, and it can really help you to stand up to winter cold.

The first problem is supply. There are sources for the dried mushroom and "extracts", but they are rather questionable and extremely expensive and I don't recommend them at all. You should gather this mushroom from the wild when it is in season. You can ask your local mushrooming club (unlike, say---morels, they won't be secretive about sources of A. muscaria unless they think they are protecting you from suicide), or consult books or a specialist in the regional mycology  at your local university, but be prepared to do some research. It is found throughout the country in forested areas, and while the season is short, the mushroom often fruits in great abundance, and you can easily gather a year's supply. In some areas there are two seasons, one in summer and the other in the fall. If you have a choice, gather the summer mushrooms as there is evidence that they are more potent and have less physical side effects.

Fortunately, there is nothing really dangerous that looks like this most distinctive of all mushrooms, but in most of the Eastern U.S., Fly Mushroom is golden rather than red in color,(this kind is called Amanita muscaria formosa) and you need to be more careful. Trust me, it is well worth the trouble to research this mushroom to be able to gather it safely! Don't be too open about what you are up to, as people are very apt to freak out if you tell them. A. muscaria is not in any way a controlled substance however.

Beware of what you read from the "authorities" on the effects of this mushroom. An absolutely INCREDIBLE amount of misinformation has been printed about Amanita muscaria, and I probably know as much about its medicinal effects as anyone in the country.

Once you have your mushrooms, you need to think about preservation. The traditional way to do this is the one you should avoid, namely drying. It gives the mushrooms a bitter, metallic taste and makes them rather nauseating. You can keep them in the fridge a few days wrapped in paper towels provided you cut off the usually maggot-containing stalk. You can mince the shrooms with garlic and pickle in vinegar and salt, preserved in the fridge (a spoonful or so is great in a salad dressing). To keep longer, dip the mushrooms in brandy (or rum, or whatever spirit you like...) and freeze them. You must include a preservative when freezing or the mushrooms will spoil even while frozen. You can also sauté the mushrooms in olive oil or butter and freeze cooked, if you want to avoid alcohol.

These mushrooms have an absolutely delicious taste when properly prepared, and are one of the outstanding gourmet fungi of the world. The intensity of the flavor seems to have some correlation with the potency, so you can get an idea of the quality of the raw mushrooms by tasting a little bit. If the mushroom is strong, the meaty flavor will fill your whole mouth. Amanita muscaria seems to especially favour rich French sauces and hearty Italian ones. It can really enhance the flavor of meat dishes, even in amounts as small as a teaspoon or two, and I have used it in this way as a flavor enhancer. It is far finer than MSG. For some reason, it does not seem to go well with chile or Mexican dishes. It is also excellent in omelets and scrambled eggs. One of my favourite ways to prepare it is to sauté it with minced shallots in butter, then add a little sour cream and salt and pepper. Served over a slice of toasted French bread, it is simply wonderful! It is also superb in pastas.

Please remember not to be beguiled by the wonderful flavor and overindulge. There is a record of a man eating a hundred mushrooms at a meal and soon after going into a coma. They were able to save his life, though I honestly don't know how after such an insane overdose. Keep everybody's total intake to no more than 1 to 2 tablespoons per person. Eaten at breakfast, amanita will make everybody cheerful and energetic. Consumed in a fine dinner in the evening with a good wine, it will make people happy, talkative, sociable and relaxed. I have never seen its equal as an overall social mood-enhancer, and despite using it on many occasions, I have never had anyone report a negative experience. The only complaint I have received is from people who say they feel nothing, but even these become noticeably more cheerful and talkative.

My mother sometimes puts a little in my stepfather's dinner to keep him awake instead of falling asleep immediately after eating. Keep it away from pets, especially cats who are lethally sensitive to it. I feel it should be kept from children too, especially small ones. We both like to include some in breakfast when we need extra energy for the day.

The basic value of muscaria, besides being a delightful tonic, is in dealing with seasonal and weather related depressive conditions. It really helped me to get through my first real winter in Flagstaff (we had twenty feet of snow and the temperature got down as far as 25 below zero) after a lifetime of living in the desert. I would wake up on a grim, iron-gray morning wanting to spend the day hiding under the blankets, feeling stiff and depressed and chilled to the bone. I would trudge down to the kitchen and have a cup of coffee, then cut off two tablespoons of frozen muscaria from a package in the freezer and sauté it in a little butter. I scrambled it with eggs and cheese, and enjoyed the rich flavor. Within 15 minutes I would feel a surge of energy and cheerfulness. I became toasty warm and invigorated.

The morning would look beautifully pearly-gray, and I anticipated all the things I was going to happily do. I used A. muscaria daily throughout the cold winter months and it wonderfully enhanced my winter-hardiness. It really got me through the acclimatization process. When muscaria works well, it puts a subtle tension in your muscles and makes you want to go out and do something. I am prone to seasonal affective disorder, but muscaria completely counteracts that. It even made Christmas a genuinely happy occasion. For the first time, I experienced the holidays without a hint of depression. If I sound a little bit in love with the stuff, you are correct.

The summers have been too dry recently for muscaria, but I hope we get lucky this year and I can store some up.

During the early fall, before it got cold and when I had large quantities of fresh mushrooms, I experimented with larger doses (but no more than 1 cup total in a day). With 4 tablespoons at a meal, I often had a little nausea, and would either get drowsy or become hyper and speedy. In the latter case, I often became hyperaware, with a distinct feeling of the heebie-jeebies, like you get when you sleep in an old house and can hear every crack and creak. Both this and the nausea would wear off in half an hour. If I continued such doses throughout the day, I felt a pleasant but distinct sense of intoxication and an oddly detached feeling like being wrapped in a soft fuzzy blanket. By nightfall, I would have rather pretty closed-eye visuals of what looked like jewel-encrusted objects. I would go out into the nearby woods to meditate at night. The darkness was deep and velvety and welcoming and house lights were supernally luminous and beautiful. In meditation, I felt wonderfully expanded and immersed in a blissful ocean of quiet yet profound peace and joyfulness.

I have read the 9th Book of the Rig Veda (the one with the Soma Hymns) under the full influence of Amanita muscaria and I am absolutely convinced that it really is the Sacred Soma of Ancient India; it was remarkably easy to identify the sentiments the authors expressed with what I, myself, was feeling. I don't think anything else would have the same effect, certainly not Syrian rue  (completely non-euphoric) or psilocybe (physically gruelling if you attempt extended use). Two things the ancient poets mentioned that I also found true was that Soma gave you deep, restful, healing sleep when you were ill, and it banished fearfulness and gave courage without also banishing your common sense.

The ancient poems clearly describe using Soma for multiple times per day (Vedic Law allowed you to use it three times in one day) and taking it daily for extended periods as a tonic and medicine, just as I had done. Such usage would be SERIOUSLY harmful and counterproductive if you tried doing it with psilocybe mushrooms!

The courage thing matters too. I am somewhat prone to shyness and social phobia, but not with A. muscaria. If I ever try parachuting, I suspect that the only way I would be able to get myself to jump out of the airplane that first time would be to use a little muscaria before-hand. Perhaps it could be useful in dealing with phobias and shyness. The ancient poems certainly suggest that.

I didn't use such high doses again after winter started, but I experimented with abruptly ceasing use temporarily after that period to test for addiction potential. I liked it so much that I was a little concerned about this. It took 3 days to completely come down after extended use of muscaria, but there were no withdrawal effects and no craving. I had the same experience when I ran out of my frozen mushrooms the following spring. I think it is reasonably safe in that regard. The Siberian natives often used muscaria rather abusively in the winter with some signs of physical harmful effects (very similar to those associated with kava kava addiction), but this reflected the horrendous winters they had to endure and the lack of any alternatives. The natives say that the potential harm of muscaria was trivial compared to the harmfulness of the Russian vodka which replaced it. They also used it as a medicine to give restful sleep to the seriously ill and as a stimulating tonic for hard work in the winter. I and a friend have confirmed this winter tonic effect. The potency is increased if you combine it with Oriental Red Ginseng; such a combination can give great endurance and cold-resistance. On the other hand, I did not find muscaria particularly helpful by itself in straight depression; it is primarily meant for seasonal and weather-related depressive conditions and possibly shyness and phobias. A wonderful gift from Sweet Mother Gaia!

In animal experiments, muscaria had the ability to potentiate tranquilizers, sedatives, narcotics and other pharamaceuticals that effect the central nervous system, and should probably not be used with potent examples of these agents (I had no problems with OTC  medicines or Tylenol#3 with codeine, however). It can also increase muscle tone (mild overdoses cause noticeable twitching) and should be used cautiously in people with back or orthopedic problems. In small doses, the active ingredients show anticonvulsant and antispasmodic effects, but the opposite is true with large doses, so it should probably not be used by epileptics, especially those requiring medication. It also has very perceptable appetite-suppressing effects (far stronger than amphetamines in animal experiments), which may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the situation. I have used it for weight control. I find that a fairly small amount of amanita-laced food completely satisfies the appetite and makes you more physically active to boot, so it may have potential here...

Anyway, don't take my word for it, explore this wonderful fungus for yourself, just don't overindulge! I have never used it in seriously entheogenic doses, I found it far too spooky and unnerving long before I got to that point, but you can read vivid accounts in various "trip reports" available on the web. Most people who have used it in such large doses tend to become afraid of it and avoid it, so such usage is an entirely different matter than the uses I have described here. I can't help you with that."

Since there are literally thousands about at the moment I thought I'd give it a try. Picked about 10kgs in probably 15 mins, but made the mistake (I think) of washing them well before cooking ie.
removing a lot of the ibotenic acid and muscimol.
Seem to be getting a slight mood enhancement from a small 3tblspns and my mum (she's 75) want's to eat a heap of them due to the taste which she describes as "absolutely beautiful". Ed must do many and more extensive bio-assays before mum can have a meal of them, but the above article so far seems to bear weight. Will post more info when a conclusion is reached
ed

They grow all over the world. They seem to be sparked by temperature change. Just about the time of the first frost, or right after the first frost, is when you want to start looking for them. It is at this time a hormone signal is sent to the roots from the tree. It is this same signal that causes the fruiting . In a lot of areas, this could be around Thanksgiving. Down here on the Gulf Coast, I find them around the end of November or the first part of December. As you move further North, the time is earlier. That is the only time they fruit until the following year. You can many times find hundreds of them. Best to dry and store away if you want to have any. There usually won't be any more until the same time next year........slp/fmrc


I recommend reading the previous post for therapeutic muscaria dosages of 1-2 tablespoons.

Dosage below is for completely dried material:
Oral Amanita muscaria Dosages
Light 1 - 5 g
Common 5 - 10 g
Strong 10 - 30 g

Onset : 30 - 120 minutes
Peak : 1 - 2 hours
Duration : 5 - 10 hours (higher doses seem to last longer)
Normal After Effects : 1 - 5 hours

The experiences of Waser (1979), who experimented himself the effects of pure substances (ibotenic acid and muscimol), merit to be mentioned here:
"A 20 mg ibotenic acid dose ingested in water tastes like mushrooms, but produces little immediate action. Within half an hour a warm and slightly flushed face was noticed, without changes in blood pressure or heart rate, with no physic stimulation, but lassitude followed by sleep. A day later a migraine with classical one-sided visual disturbance developed for the first time in my life. The occipitally localized headache continued in a milder form for two weeks.

Next I turned to muscimol. A dose of 5 mg in water orally ingested had little effect except a feeling of laziness. Ten mg produced a slight intoxication after 90 minutes with dizziness, ataxia and elevated mood, psychic stimulation (in psychological tests), no hallucinations but slight changes in taste and color vision. Some myoclonic muscle twitching followed, then sleep with dreams. After two to three hours I felt normal, rested and able to undertake anything, even work. During the next night I slept well, deep and long. No other signs followed.

With 15 mg of muscimol administered orally the intoxication started after 40 minutes and was more pronounced. Dizziness made walking with closed eyes impossible, but reflexes were not changed. Speech was sometimes inarticulate and dysarthric. Appetite and taste were diminished. After a phase of stimulation, concentration became more difficult.
Vision was altered by endlessly repetitioned echopictures of situations a few minutes before. Hearing became noisy and sometimes was followed by echo. Most disturbing were repeated myoclonic cramps of different muscle groups. I felt sometimes as if I had lost my legs, but never had hallucinations as vivid and colorful as with LSD. The pupils remained always the same size. After 2 hours I fell asleep, but I cannot remember any dreams. Two hours later I awoke again and was glad that the muscle twitching was less frequent. I did not feel relaxed and fresh as after 10 mg muscimol but rather dull and uncertain. Blood pressure was only a little elevated during the psychoactive phase".

Muscimol induces a state of psychosis with confusions, dysarthria, disturbance of visual perception, illusions of colour vision, myoclonia, disorientation in place and time, weariness, fatigue and sleep. Concentration tests showed improved performance with small doses (5 mg) but diminished performance and learning with an increased number of errors with higher doses (10 to 15 mg).


Anti-Stress Drug?<wbr>
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 November 2008, 09:10 CST

Doctors are finding promising effects from a drug that could make
stress disappear.

In a small test on rats that were put under stressful conditions,
researchers found exposing them to a small dose of muscimol -- a drug
that temporarily inactivates the amygdala region of the brain --
eliminated the effects of stress completely.

“It was as if the experience had never happened to them,” Lauren
Jones, a University of Washington psychology doctoral student, was
quoted as saying. “Inactivation of the amygdala took the stress away.”

Neuroscientists say stress can have long-lasting effects on cognition,
including memory, learning and decision making processes. Stress can
also contribute to anxiety, depression, schizophrenia and drug-use
relapse in humans.

Doctors caution more tests will need to be done to understand how
deactivation of the amygdala relates to stress.

SOURCE: Presented at the Society for Neuroscience’s annual meeting in
Washington, D.C., November 18, 2008

------------------------

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/sh<wbr>ow/NCT00005925?term=Epilepsy&rank<wbr>=28

Brain Infusion of Muscimol to Treat Epilepsy

This study is currently recruiting participants.
Verified by National Institutes of Health Clinical Center (CC), June
2008

Sponsored by: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke
(NINDS)

Information provided by: National Institutes of Health Clinical
Center (CC)
ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT00005925

Purpose
This study will examine the safety and effectiveness of infusing a
chemical called muscimol into the brain to control seizures in
patients with intractable epilepsy (frequent seizures that persist
despite therapy). Muscimol, which is similar to a naturally occurring
brain chemical called GABA, has been shown to reduce seizures in rats.
After the infusion study, patients will undergo a standard surgical
procedure for controlling seizures.

Patients 18 years of age or older with intractable epilepsy may be
eligible for this study. Before entering protocol 00-N-0158,
candidates will be screened under protocol 01-N-0139, Evaluation and
Treatment of Patients with Epilepsy, with a medical history, physical
and neurologic examination, chest X-ray, electrocardiogram, blood and
urine tests, electroencephalographic (EEG) monitoring and magnetic
resonance imaging (MRI) of the head.

-------------------------

Stress hinders rats' decision-making abilities
Published: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 16:09 in Psychology &
Sociology
Learn more about: experience stress lauren jones muscimol rats society
for neuroscience uncontrollable stress
A little bit of stress goes a long way and can have far-reaching
effects. Neuroscientists from the University of Washington have found
that a single exposure to uncontrollable stress impairs decision
making in rats for several days, making them unable to reliably seek
out the larger of two rewards.

The research was presented here Tuesday (Nov. 18) at a press
conference on "Our Stressed Out Brains" during the Society for
Neuroscience's annual meeting by Lauren Jones, a UW psychology
doctoral student.

Jones, working with Jeansok Kim, a UW associate professor of
psychology, found that stressed rats took significantly longer to
respond to a change in rewards given to them in a maze and their
performances never matched those of other rats not exposed to stress.

Another group of rats was given a small dose of the drug muscimol,
which temporarily inactivated the amygdala in their brains, prior to
being subjected to the same stress. These rats were unaffected by the
stress and performed as well as the animals that were not stressed.
The amygdala is located in the forebrain and processes information
about such things as fear (the so-called fight-or-flight response),
stress and rewards.

"Stress can be long lasting, depending on what it is. The rats that
received the drug were tested on the maze the day after they were
exposed to stress and it was as if the experience had never happened
to them. Inactivation of the amygdala took the stress away," said
Jones.

"Whatever stress these rats experienced was not being processed," said
Kim. "They seemed to be immune to the stressful experience."

Stress is known to contribute to a number of psychopathologies in
humans including anxiety, depression, schizophrenia and drug-use
relapse.

Neuroscientists also know that stress affects cognition, and believe
research exploring how it relates to learning, memory and decision
making will help them understand potential problems stressed people
experience in their daily lives.

The UW researchers worked with three groups of rats – a control group,
a stress group and a stress plus amygdala inactivation group. All of
the rats were acclimated to an automated figure-eight shaped maze that
consisted of a center track leading to two loops that ran to the left
and right and back to the center. The animals were trained for several
days until they were able to complete 40 laps or trials in less than
30 minutes. For each trial, a rat would start in the center, then was
allowed to freely run to either the right or the left loop, consume a
water reward and return to the center for the next trial. Both loops
always had an 80 percent chance of containing 0.04 milliliters of
water, and the animals made a comparable number of visits to each
loop. The animals were kept on a daily water restriction schedule to
motivate them to run the maze.

After this, rats in the stress group and those that were given the
drug were restrained and subjected to an unpredictable series of tail
shocks for one hour. The following day, all of the rats were returned
to the maze for a new series of trials. Once again the animals could
run either loop of the maze, but this time the reward amount was
increased on one side to 0.12 milliliters.

Within three days the control group and stress plus amygdala
inactivation group were reliably able to navigate the maze and collect
the larger reward on 35 out of 40 trials. The stress group, meanwhile,
was only successful on about 23 of 40 trials, and after several more
days their performance only increased to about 26 out of 40 trials.

"The stressed animals took longer to learn and weren't adjusting their
behavior in the maze," said Jones. "From this research we can see the
effects of stress on rats and how one episode of stress impairs their
decision making for several days.

"We know humans have to make numerous higher-levels decisions, some of
which are complex and require deliberations. Rats are guided by
survival, and seeking out the larger of two rewards for the same
effort should be fundamentally easy. The fact that stress can have
such an effect on a simple but critical task is amazing."

Kim added: "Decision making, both large and small, is part of our
lives. People are prone to make mistakes under stress. Look at what
has been going on with the stock market. People are under huge amounts
of stress and we have to question some of the decisions that are being
made."

Source: University of Washington

I hope this helps clear up some of the misinformation floating around.

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Offlineistandalone
the clit commander
Male


Registered: 04/30/09
Posts: 2,997
Loc: somewhere in southern VT
Last seen: 1 year, 12 hours
Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11509068 - 11/23/09 05:19 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

idk about all of you guys, but drinking urine is right up there with plugging in respect to what i will NOT do to get high.
jesus christ.....


--------------------
Now he's Johnny Hammersticks hammerin' away like he's friggin' Tommy Noble

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: istandalone]
    #11510254 - 11/23/09 11:32 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

lol

Quote:

istandalone said:
idk about all of you guys, but drinking urine is right up there with plugging in respect to what i will NOT do to get high.
jesus christ.....




--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Invisiblemushroomexplorer

Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 358
Loc: WA
Re: Amanita muscaria Question [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #12856450 - 07/06/10 01:01 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

.

Edited by mushroomexplorer (08/03/12 09:04 AM)

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