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OfflineFliquid
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Why is repression most times the first choice?
    #1144380 - 12/15/02 10:25 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

If you are a manager, and the team gives out bad results for the product you support. Why the hell does higher management want you to bring in new rules and less freedom?

Bad results don't mean they have to much freedom. Bad results usually mean, the company is not doing its best to keep the workers happy. And don't give them the feeling like they are one with the company.

But its not only in company's like this. Its everywhere.

Something goes wrong, BRING IN THE RULES, BALL AND CHAIN!  :frown:

So here i ask you why do you think this happens? 


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Why is repression most times the first choice? [Re: Fliquid]
    #1144413 - 12/16/02 04:42 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I once worked on a design team. The new manager (a guitarist who literally bought the company - he was the Queen of Jordan's brother!) wanted the product in time for a major show. When he asked if we (myself and two others) could do it. I proceded to lay out the timeline and showed him how it would be impossible to do in 4 months even if everything went right. We told him if would be February at the earliest.

He screamed, ranted and raved and after an hour of badgering and humiliation, we "agreed" it would be done by November just to stop the verbal abuse. When Novemeber came and went, he called us in his office and yelled at us saying "You PROMISED me you would have it completed by November!" We rolled our eyes and just looked at each other. BTW, we finished the product in late January and it was voted product of the year by a trade magazine. (None of which mattered.)


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFliquid
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Re: Why is repression most times the first choice? [Re: Swami]
    #1144461 - 12/16/02 05:10 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Right, as i said before...

In reply to:

Bad results usually mean, the company is not doing its best to keep the workers happy.




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OfflineMajor_Buzz
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Re: Why is repression most times the first choice? [Re: Fliquid]
    #1144610 - 12/16/02 06:30 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Why?
IMO - 'cause we like to think of ourselves as being in control of everyone and everything. This is especially true of people in positions of power.


Edited by Major_Buzz (12/16/02 06:53 AM)


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Why is repression most times the first choice? [Re: Fliquid]
    #1144657 - 12/16/02 06:49 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

Bad results don't mean they have to much freedom. Bad results usually mean, the company is not doing its best to keep the workers happy. And don't give them the feeling like they are one with the company.



Bad results can have many causes. Many managers don't know how to look for the causes and new rules are the easiest way they can think of to try to control things.

Many managers fail to realize that the line workers are the most familiar with the processes and have the greatest awareness of the problems that plague a company and the creation of it's products. The vast majority of workers WANT to do a good job and take pride in their work, oftentimes management attitudes and rules are more of a hindrance than a help in this area. W. Edwards Deming addressed this with his management method and the Japanese auto industry was one of the first groups to accept it (with incredible results). It took years for the U.S. auto industry to catch up.

My wife's uncle (who started his own electrical engineering firm and later sold it for $7,000,000 about 20 years ago) is a consultant and on the board of directors to several companies. Many problems are systemic in nature and many managers fail to realize this. The first thing he does is make ALL the management read a book entitled 'The Goal (A process of Ongoing Improvement)' by Eliyahu M. Goldratt & Jeff Cox. I highly recommend this book if you're interested in the subject. I illustrates in the form of a story how to analyze systems and optimize them (often this can be down with no capital outlay)


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineFliquid
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Re: Why is repression most times the first choice? [Re: Major_Buzz]
    #1150278 - 12/17/02 10:47 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

Why?
IMO - 'cause we like to think of ourselves as being in control of everyone and everything. This is especially true of people in positions of power.




But thats just a fraction of the problem.


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OfflineFliquid
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Re: Why is repression most times the first choice? [Re: Evolving]
    #1150287 - 12/17/02 10:54 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

Bad results can have many causes. Many managers don't know how to look for the causes and new rules are the easiest way they can think of to try to control things.




Is it a lack of trust in the line workers? Or are they just to ego tripping, to even see the aspect of a lower payed person knowing a sollution.

In reply to:

Many managers fail to realize that the line workers are the most familiar with the processes and have the greatest awareness of the problems that plague a company and the creation of it's products. The vast majority of workers WANT to do a good job and take pride in their work, oftentimes management attitudes and rules are more of a hindrance than a help in this area. W. Edwards Deming addressed this with his management method and the Japanese auto industry was one of the first groups to accept it (with incredible results). It took years for the U.S. auto industry to catch up.




Why do you think things work wrong in most cases?

In reply to:

My wife's uncle (who started his own electrical engineering firm and later sold it for $7,000,000 about 20 years ago) is a consultant and on the board of directors to several companies. Many problems are systemic in nature and many managers fail to realize this. The first thing he does is make ALL the management read a book entitled 'The Goal (A process of Ongoing Improvement)' by Eliyahu M. Goldratt & Jeff Cox. I highly recommend this book if you're interested in the subject. I illustrates in the form of a story how to analyze systems and optimize them (often this can be down with no capital outlay)




It would improve the world wide situation. Communication would also benefit of it.


--------------------
:dancing: My latest music! :yesnod:


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Why is repression most times the first choice? [Re: Fliquid]
    #1151493 - 12/18/02 11:23 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

Is it a lack of trust in the line workers? Or are they just to ego tripping...



These are both definite possibilities, another reason might just be plain old ignorance, or a combination of any of these three things in various degrees (my preferred explanation).

In reply to:

Why do you think things work wrong in most cases?



I think things work okay in most instances (in established businesses, most new businesses fail), but seldom are things done optimally.

In my experience the vast majority of managers are mediocre when it comes to getting the best out of their people. More people in 'leadership' positions should take some lessons from Gen George S. Patton,
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."



--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: Why is repression most times the first choice? [Re: Fliquid]
    #1151532 - 12/18/02 11:38 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

New rules and laws come with almost everything bad nowadays. When the Columbine massacre happened, new anti-gun legislature was pushed to prevent another one. When the 9/11 attacks occured, the government began to push legislation that clearly violates some of our basic freedoms.

I believe this fact stems from the saying "Learn from your mistakes." Since WWII, people have become more and more eager to prevent anything "bad" from happening. New rules bring a false sense of comfort. People feel that something is being done, and therefore they are safe. This applies to anything from world politics to small businesses.


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Anonymous

Re: Why is repression most times the first choice? [Re: Anonymous]
    #1151551 - 12/18/02 11:42 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Extremely well said.


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Offlinelx993
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Re: Why is repression most times the first choice? [Re: ]
    #1151669 - 12/18/02 12:24 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Only problem here is that the continual creation of new rules and controls to preserve the safety of the general public merely shifts the responsibility for safety away from the general public and into the hands of the powerful. Basically instead of personal responsibility and general vigilance, this is abdicated to the police / military / government etc.
Perhaps I'm too extreme a libertarian but the people should have the information and shoulder some of the responsibility for society's safety. This applies equally to drug law / gun law / car law, etc. perhaps more than anti-terrorist activity which by its very nature requires a certain level of secrecy.
Otherwise there'll be a vast swathe of people living in expectation of safety, accidents are always someone else's fault and in reality they are not free in any sense.

It is amazing how sensible and resourceful people are if their safety depends on it. The arrant stupidity seen in many western cultures stems from lack of responsibility for one's actions in many cases (or too much beer :smile:
 


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Anonymous

Re: Why is repression most times the first choice? [Re: lx993]
    #1152052 - 12/18/02 02:33 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Only problem here is that the continual creation of new rules and controls to preserve the safety of the general public merely shifts the responsibility for safety away from the general public and into the hands of the powerful.

Arrant indeed. This is the case whether the powerful is a ruling oligarchy or a democracy. Both styles of government can be oppressive.


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OfflineFliquid
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Re: Why is repression most times the first choice? [Re: ]
    #1153084 - 12/18/02 09:22 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Hi there old buddy.  :grin:

Quote:

Arrant indeed. This is the case whether the powerful is a ruling oligarchy or a democracy. Both styles of government can be oppressive. 




But the main error in problem handling is the fact that they generally only act when its to late. And most of the time they don't go to the root. Just the easiest nearest problem. And try to fix it with a bit of paint. Meanwhile the problem grows and grows.  :smirk: 


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Anonymous

Re: Why is repression most times the first choice? [Re: Fliquid]
    #1153142 - 12/18/02 10:00 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Hi there yourself Old Buddy! :smile:

Yes, I agree.


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