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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Zep Tepi]
    #11440708 -

Science today cannot explain everything. How do you fill in the gaps?

Well not with subjective irrational belief. Not for me anyway. We will never have all the gaps filled in. Learn to live with uncertainty.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (11/12/09 01:15 PM)

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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Icelander]
    #11440746 -

Icelander said:
Well not with subjective irrational belief. Not for me anyway. We will never have all the gaps filled in. Learn to live with uncertainty.:thumbup:


If his belief is subjective, how do you know its irrational?


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Zep Tepi]
    #11440752 -

This is probably the very most important issue facing us, well rather our future humans and all life that might care about its own existence.

Its crazy to think how much we have overflown in the past 2000 years. This slow slow process has been goin for so long, at what point will anyone realize life as such isnt even worth living? How could a human saturated planet be better unless peoples views were changed and we really were convinced we like this better. Much evolution in our aesthetic side of the matter will be necessary or massive terrible die offs. Or maybe people will realize how shitty things have gotten and stop fucking (hardly likely) so something interesting is brewing.

Question is, as an individual are you going to spread your genes, be responsible for persisting a race that has apparently overflown, that is one that is headed away from our prehistory at an extremely high rate of prolification? I am thinking about that, I guess surely I dont want to have more than 1 or 2 kids (even then....) but to have anymore than 2 I dunno, seems kind of short sighted at this point. Adoption is perhaps the highest ideal, but obviously none of this is binding... thus the volcano of humanity is gearin up for something.

Just what could we infer it to be, who could say....


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Zep Tepi]
    #11440785 -

Zep Tepi said:
Ok, in an ideal civilized world. We would harmonize with nature. This means keeping a population relative to resources. We shift all of our labor to machines. Now no one works. We are free to do what we want with our time. I believe we could function as a collective of city states. Local law enforcement would be necessary. I know it's not a perfect system. But at least we wouldn't have to worry about world wars.


In this 'ideal world', who are the people? Are they also 'idealised' minions of yours?

I am immediately skeptical of anyone who has this vision of a future where no one is working. Are you supposing some elite new-age intelligent robots that can maintain themselves as well as maintaining the planet for all humans? Does your idealised world require such imaginary devices?


--------------------

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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Dyingjezuz]
    #11440792 -

The average person is uneducated, ignorant and compleltly oblivious(intnentionally/unintentionally) of the severity of the problems and how soons they will affect them.

They also have a blind trust in government.

IF you do a little math, you will realize that if the average individual makes up the largest percentage of the population and since population is expanding, so is the sheer numbers of average people(as per my description).

To me this is alarming and the more the not merrier, rather the other way around.

Merry Christmas!  :sorry:

Ho HO ho......SHIT.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #11440804 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #11440808 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
Icelander said:
Well not with subjective irrational belief. Not for me anyway. We will never have all the gaps filled in. Learn to live with uncertainty.:thumbup:


If his belief is subjective, how do you know its irrational?



I don't but without evidence there is no way to know. This is what I was pointing out to him.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #11440817 -

AlphaFalfa said:
The average person is uneducated, ignorant and compleltly oblivious(intnentionally/unintentionally) of the severity of the problems and how soons they will affect them.

They also have a blind trust in government.

IF you do a little math, you will realize that if the average individual makes up the largest percentage of the population and since population is expanding, so is the sheer numbers of average people(as per my description).

To me this is alarming and the more the not merrier, rather the other way around.

Merry Christmas!  :sorry:

Ho HO ho......SHIT.


:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11440824 -

There is no "last number"; similarly, there is probably an infinite amount of knowledge that exists in the universe.


Humans will not last forever. :nonono:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11440856 -

Why does there have to be positive pockets?


I am not certain. I base my claims of hours of research.

Environmental Studies here, BTW. I did four years of it back when. B.A. Complete a few years ago.

Not the most effective tool for making money, for anyone who is thinking about it...just take some as electives...that should be enough...or minor in it.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Icelander]
    #11440861 -

Icelander said:
AlphaFalfa said:
The average person is uneducated, ignorant and compleltly oblivious(intnentionally/unintentionally) of the severity of the problems and how soons they will affect them.

They also have a blind trust in government.

IF you do a little math, you will realize that if the average individual makes up the largest percentage of the population and since population is expanding, so is the sheer numbers of average people(as per my description).

To me this is alarming and the more the not merrier, rather the other way around.

Merry Christmas!  :sorry:

Ho HO ho......SHIT.


:thumbup:


:rockon:


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Icelander]
    #11440867 -

I was trying to stress the point that science doesn't have everything explained now. It is an ideal. The best way to deal with the unknown is to accept it, or whatever you do. Subjectively speaking, I believe science will know all. Given an infinite amount of resources, an infinite amount of time, with an infinite intellect, all is known.


--------------------
I felt like I was tricked. Having finally standing above everything. Looking down on life. The mystery is going to be reveled. One step at a time, on this path. Harmony...

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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #11440872 -

AlphaFalfa said:
Icelander said:
AlphaFalfa said:
The average person is uneducated, ignorant and compleltly oblivious(intnentionally/unintentionally) of the severity of the problems and how soons they will affect them.

They also have a blind trust in government.

IF you do a little math, you will realize that if the average individual makes up the largest percentage of the population and since population is expanding, so is the sheer numbers of average people(as per my description).

To me this is alarming and the more the not merrier, rather the other way around.

Merry Christmas!  :sorry:

Ho HO ho......SHIT.


:thumbup:


:rockon:



"HO HO HO

Shit"

:lol:


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11440877 -

Lakefingers said:
Noteworthy said:
Don't you think, by removing the military, you just leave the door open to gangs and mobs?


I don't know Zep Tepi's motivation for this. But when I, friends or authors I've read, considered this idea it seems to assume that humans are essentially good and under the right circumstances would realize they don't need weapons, violence, military, if those weapons, violence and military were removed. This might be true, or possible :shrug: but the world is as it is and people are (conditioned) as they are, and there are many malicious forces and those who would maliciously prey on good intent... and so on. You seem to know this already. I mention it to get feedback.



The problem I have with such theories is that, even if most people are good, it is clear that many people are not. We have to live with these people.

And even the good people, are limited by language, by beliefs. They will undoubtedly come up against disagreement.

But what is this idea that humans need weapons, violence, military? I don't think it has to do with need. It has to do with wants. Humans will always have wants. In fact, the more peace they have, the more explicit, ideosyncratic desires they have, because of all the time they have to spend thinking about what they want. How do you cope with everyone's wants? People cant have everything.

We have only whitnessed people being cooperative when they live in a stable environment. (edit: when I say 'people' I mean societies. Individual groups often work together the most when they are in dire times) The 'stability' of our current world is based on an economy that thrives on instability. It is in fact only stable in places that have good economic growth. or, alternatively, no civilisation (im sure various tribes live peacefully).

Although there will always be good people, people are animals and there will always be bad people because such people have survival advantages.

I get the vibe that people get depressed thinking about the corruption of man. But I think its OK when there are systems in place to moderate the ability of individuals to exert their will.

Ie. in order to provide freedom to good people, you need to take away other freedoms. Thats what we do. We have nations with laws, that describe the freedoms of people. When people show they are bad, they lose freedoms. When people contribute, they gain freedoms (money.. though i realise it is not the fairest system). Now, how do you suppose laws are maintained?
A lot of people think it is the police. But the police are more of a civil service in place to avoid having to mobilise the military. The military is there to enforce a nation's rules. If they were not enforced, then they would not be rules, they would merely be guidelines, and thus they would be broken by the bad people that necessarily exist due.

there is nothing good about absolute freedom... because it means that the brute forces of the world are free to rip you to shreds.

this doesnt mean people arent essentially 'good'. It just means that people arent perfectly good.


--------------------

Edited by Noteworthy (11/12/09 01:44 PM)

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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Poid]
    #11440884 -

Zep Tepi said:
I was trying to stress the point that science doesn't have everything explained now.

Religion doesn't have much explained at all. :shrug:



Zep Tepi said:
It is an ideal.

An ideal which reaches for objective evidence to sustain its claims; this is very unlike religion.



Zep Tepi said:
Subjectively speaking, I believe science will know all. Given an infinite amount of resources, an infinite amount of time, with an infinite intellect, all is known.

Poid said:
There is no "last number"; similarly, there is probably an infinite amount of knowledge that exists in the universe.


Humans will not last forever. :nonono:



--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #11440892 -

AlphaFalfa said:
The average person is uneducated, ignorant and compleltly oblivious(intnentionally/unintentionally) of the severity of the problems and how soons they will affect them.

They also have a blind trust in government.

IF you do a little math, you will realize that if the average individual makes up the largest percentage of the population and since population is expanding, so is the sheer numbers of average people(as per my description).

To me this is alarming and the more the not merrier, rather the other way around.

Merry Christmas!  :sorry:

Ho HO ho......SHIT.


What's your take on the forced sterilization of the "average" person?

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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11440893 -

Quote:
Noteworthy said:
ps. my prediction is mass starvation, disease, and war. Life on earth has always been that way... In fact it is that way right now. We priveleged internet surfers just exist in a nice little bubble. I wonder how long the bubble can last?


If you're in Australia or the US it'll probably last most of your life time. By lasting I mean you are relatively safe from foreign invasion.


Although this is a common misunderstanding, show me what research shows this?

I am more motivated about economics/War, than over population. Over-population excacerbates issues, it is not the central source for them.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Zep Tepi]
    #11440917 -

Zep Tepi said:
Poid said:
Poid said:
Zep Tepi said:
Every human life is precious...

I disagree.






Zep Tepi said:
...and necessary.

Necessary for what? :confused:



Zep Tepi said:
A civilized world is possible. However, military (of every country) would need to be destroyed.

What evidence do you have to support this claim that a civilized world would only be possible if every country's military was destroyed? :what:



It would be nice if you could actually respond to what I said here...:crying:



I disagree every human life is precious.

Necessary for a purpose higher than you and I can understand.

There would be no wars of any kind.

It would be nice if you weren't so blunt also.


Sounds like you made a decision to cover up an existential problem, with that one right there. Look into that because although it is comforting, when it starts to break down and you have nowhere to go, you will regret you didnt attempt to smooth is out before hand and that is a pianful, pain, numbing and dread filled.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: LysergicLeopard]
    #11440996 -

Probono - I think its a good way to show people that kids are not what they are all cracked up to be, without having to eliminate their subconcious fear of god/the unknown(such as death) and their heavily repressed feeling of fitting in that is covered up in notions of who i am.

It would change the world for the better.

But it doesnt make a difference. It aint going to happen...just another sociaological thought excercise!

And yours?


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: Overpopulation and Philosophy (of the Future) [Re: Poid]
    #11441001 -

I guess it depends on necessity. Science explains the physical waking world. Dreams, UFOs, ghosts and other paranormal activity is unknown. The unknown can be looked at as knowledge that will be known. Isn't it funny how people put religion in place of unknown? I guess if one were on their death bed religion would function as a comfort. I don't think you can use it in physics class though. lol.


--------------------
I felt like I was tricked. Having finally standing above everything. Looking down on life. The mystery is going to be reveled. One step at a time, on this path. Harmony...

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