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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Autoclave, Impulse Sealer, Paul Stamets, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain

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Offlineillegalsmilerk
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Autoclavable Bags
    #1142776 - 12/15/02 11:16 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Been using jars for a long time and wanted to try something different, Got Autoclavable bags but couldn't find any info on PCin time and wanted to know how long should I sterilize a bag say if its filled 5-6 in from bottom with rye berries??? Also any suggestions if I should pre seal it? Links to teks would be awesome...


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Autoclavable Bags [Re: illegalsmilerk]
    #1142879 - 12/15/02 12:01 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I only tried to preseal a bag once, but it exploded and made one hell of a mess inside my autoclave. I sterilize rye berries for about 1.5 hrs at 25 psi (my autoclave goes up to 30psi, 25 is not a typo). This may be over kill, but I had a hard time getting rid of Bacillus for a while, and this seemed to help. Do your bags have a filter patch on them? If not, you will need to use polyfill or something similiar for air exchange.


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Offliner05c03
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Re: Autoclavable Bags [Re: illegalsmilerk]
    #1143062 - 12/15/02 01:26 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

You have to seal them after. Staples work okay. 1.5 hours is enough time at 15 psi, especially if you let the rye soak overnight. Soaking overnight will allow most of the bacillus spores to germinate and be killed by the heat, otherwise, as stated previously, they can be a bitch to get rid of.



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OfflineI Heart Paste
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Re: Autoclavable Bags [Re: r05c03]
    #1143124 - 12/15/02 01:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

bacillus is used as a pesticide, so wouldn't that imply that perhaps your rye wasn't organic? just a thought.


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Offliner05c03
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Re: Autoclavable Bags [Re: I Heart Paste]
    #1145740 - 12/16/02 01:07 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

No. Bacillus thurgenisis (spelling?) or Bt as it is called is one of the few pesticides that is cleared for use in organic production. So the presence of bacillus in rye would not imply anything about its organic origins. However aside from Bt there are several other ubiquitous Bacillus species that would be, could be, and are present on rye.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Autoclavable Bags [Re: illegalsmilerk]
    #1145835 - 12/16/02 01:32 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Depends on the size of your bag, or better, how much volume we're talking here. Really large bags can hold 1.5-2 gallons of grain. Stamets recomends 4 hr's at 15 psi to sterilize them. If you're talking more along the lines of a quart, then pc an hour. 1/2 gallon, 1.5 hrs. etc etc.

don't preseal, and staples aren't airtight. You may get by with them sometimes, but I certainly wouldn't count on a staple. You need to heat seal it. Messy with a lighter. Cheap and a little cleaner with a soldering iron. Some reliability from a Eurosealer. Or do it the professional way with an impulse sealer. Get them from eaby. I got a 12" for cheap, like $15 I think.


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Offliner05c03
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Re: Autoclavable Bags [Re: mycofile]
    #1146193 - 12/16/02 03:46 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Heat sealing the bag may be the best thing, but folding the top of the bag over several times and stapling it closed is damn near air tight. I have done 20 -30 bags, grain, grass seed, manure, dowel rods, sawdust, you name it and only two have contaminated. I have never used anything but staples. Maybe I am just lucky....I don't suggest things that I have not tried or made work.


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OfflineNeonBlack
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Re: Autoclavable Bags [Re: illegalsmilerk]
    #1146696 - 12/16/02 07:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well, I use autoclavable bags and preseal them with a regular old iron. I just lay the bag out on a piece of wood, turn the iron on hot, and press down quickly and carefully onto part of the bag opening. I just move down the opening until I get a perfect seal, works every time. I pressure cook them for about 1.5 hours. I have never had one burst inside of my pressure cooker or had any contaminate. Maybe that's because I'm just lucky or possibly there isn't enough room in the cooker for the bag to expand enough to burst. Regardless, I haven't had any problems except for when I forgot to put a dishtowel in my pressure cooker to keep the bag off of the bottom. That resulted in a bag with the bottom melted off and was a pain in the ass to clean up. Pre sealing works well if you are worried about sterility issues and hate trying to seal a bag in a sterile environment. I've done it both ways, and it really comes down to personal preference. If you're not doing grain to grain transfers and just using spore syringes then there is really no reason to seal the bags after sterilization. Make sure to try and get most of the air out of the bags before you seal and you should be all right. However, if you're working in an autoclave like someone mentioned then I could see where it might be a problem and the bag might burst. Good luck whatever you decide to do.


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Offlinethe spiral
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Re: Autoclavable Bags [Re: illegalsmilerk]
    #1147201 - 12/16/02 10:16 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I've used the autoclavable bags many times, and this is what I do:

Before cooking them, I fold over the tops and paper-clip them with 3 paper clips across the top. After 1.5 hrs at 15 psi, i take them out, and use several long pieces of duct tape to seal up the whole top of the bag. This is very reliable.


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InvisibleUna
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Re: Autoclavable Bags [Re: illegalsmilerk]
    #1150687 - 12/18/02 05:56 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)



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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Autoclave, Impulse Sealer, Paul Stamets, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain

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