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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Non-Biological Father's Responsibility
    #1142472 - 12/15/02 08:11 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

A recent case, showed through DNA testing that a man's daughter, was in fact, not from his seed. This was NOT a voluntary adoption. The wife had an affair and had kept it from him. The couple divorced and the man now refuses to pay child support. The girl is now 10 year's old.

Of course, the courts will most likely rule against him for the sake of the child, but merely because he took responsibility for 10 years, should he have to continue to pay for someone else's fraud? I say NO!

As a side note, so far the press has been cruel to him (the victim of the sexual fraud) and not the mother. Go figure!

OK, begin ethical discussion.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: Swami]
    #1142493 - 12/15/02 08:20 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)



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Offline3eyedgod
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Registered: 11/24/02
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Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: Swami]
    #1142499 - 12/15/02 08:21 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Hell No he shouldn't have to pay. They should find the guy that knocked her up and make him pay.

I would smack that bitch.


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: Swami]
    #1142500 - 12/15/02 08:22 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I think that for the sake of the child and the mental distrautness that will probably come of all this, he should still remain somewhat responsible for the child. He can't just up and walk away leaving a 10 year old girl without a father just like that. Granted the mother is to blame for this, but in the meantime, should the child be made to suffer? If anything, I think the government should make some sort of a rule where parents in this sort of situation would lose custody if they are the ones at fault. I know that's kind of messed up, but if the mother knew there were consequinces like this then maybe it wouldn't have happened in the first place. The biological father should be financially responsible for the child from the time of birth, whereas backpay should go to the non biological father (at least a portion) to compensate for the mental loss.

Argue all you want, as I don't fully agree with what I've posted. It's just an idea.


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
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Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: Swami]
    #1142503 - 12/15/02 08:22 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Speaking of this... I read something pretty crazy in the newspaper the other day.

"It's now widely accepted among those who work in genetics that roughly 10 per cent of us are not fathered by the man we believe to be dad."

This link will probably die soon.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Edited by Phluck (12/15/02 08:23 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: ]
    #1142517 - 12/15/02 08:29 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

That girl looks up to him with a full heart and an innocence only kept by children; and he looks the other way in shame, rejecting all of his previous feelings and assertions

Let's not confuse relationship issues with financial responsibility which is quite easy to do.

Assuming you rethink your position and still feel the acting father to be responsible, at what point in time would you consider future acting fathers to be responsible? Day 1, 3 months, 1 year, 5 years, 10 years?

What if the biological father is found and has the means to pay?

What if the biological father is found and hasn't the means to pay?

Should the biological father owe the acting father 10 back years of child support?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: Swami]
    #1142607 - 12/15/02 09:26 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

People should be held individually responsible for their own actions.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: Evolving]
    #1142622 - 12/15/02 09:46 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Not in America. The buck stops somewhere else.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher

Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 1,959
Loc: Random Field
Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: Swami]
    #1142654 - 12/15/02 10:04 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

"It's now widely accepted among those who work in genetics that roughly 10 per cent of us are not fathered by the man we believe to be dad."



I'm guessin its maybe more than 10%(stepfathers) unless its talking about not even knowing the real father.

I think the guy has a responcibility to the kid, not to the wife. If she cheated on him, she gets no alamony. The child support she should get though unless they split custody, in which case she should get shit.

The child support should be split between both the genetic father and the girl's 'dad'


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_______________________________________
CSC


Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

Off Topic Website


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: Swami]
    #1142704 - 12/15/02 10:29 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Of course, the courts will most likely rule against him for the sake of the child

This gets even worse when the "father" has a new family that he can't support because almost all of his money goes to help a child that isn't his.

I suspect as DNA testing becomes more available we will start to see many more of these types of cases.

In these cases, not only should the defrauded father no longer have to pay support, but the mother should have to pay back all of the child support she took in over the years. If it can be shown that the mother knew the child was from another man, there should also be criminal charges brought against the mother for fraud.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
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Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: Swami]
    #1142816 - 12/15/02 11:37 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

My answer off the bat without thinking about it is that the Genetic father should be held responsible....not the "emotional" father.

But, then I think.....how many times have we heard of some woman getting pregnant and hiding it from the natural father for years. Should a man who had no clue or chance at taking responsibility suffer for this. He never had a chance to bond, raise or nurture this child and all of a sudden he is supposed to pay for this.

It all comes down to the woman. She is the one that completely fucked things up and she should be the one to competely pay the consequences. As to what those should be.....thats where it gets sticky.

As for the "emotional" father....if he chooses to disconnect his entire relationship with the child that should be his perogative (although I couldn't do it). If the natural father can be proven that he had knowledge of the child then he should pay back support to the natural father (not the worthless mother).

Just my opinion but these kinds of sticky developments are why we should be upholding the moral teachings of the Bible.


(uh oh.....here come the anti-religion flames-----I'm dying, I'm dying------what a world, what a world)


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Offline3eyedgod
trippinkid

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
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Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: chemkid]
    #1142966 - 12/15/02 12:46 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

(uh oh.....here come the anti-religion flames-----I'm dying, I'm dying------what a world, what a world)

Bible thumper.   

sorry couldn't resist :grin:


--------------------
Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: Swami]
    #1143223 - 12/15/02 02:11 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)



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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: ]
    #1143459 - 12/15/02 03:38 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Morrow, you are a little paranoid. This is a real ethical discussion, not some alien nonsense. The only reason that I "poke at" arguments is to see if they stand up.

Please speak your mind freely.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: Swami]
    #1143562 - 12/15/02 04:21 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

And what is good, Phaedrus,
And what is not good-
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: ]
    #1143664 - 12/15/02 05:08 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

Sometimes complex issues require many views to discern what is the highest moral road. As you are a father and a man given to deep contemplation, I would be much more interested in your specific opinion rather than a generalized and borrowed quote.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (12/15/02 05:08 PM)


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OfflineGunboat
At the bottom ofJudecca

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 173
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: Swami]
    #1143844 - 12/15/02 06:21 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Shouldn't the real, biological father be the one paying for their ends meat?


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~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people."
- J. Danforth Quayle


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Invisibledjfrog
omgws!!!1!

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 3,710
Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: Swami]
    #1143930 - 12/15/02 06:51 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

The question asks two questions and implies their anwers are the same, which is why a consensus doesn't develop. The questions are, what are the fathers moral responsiblity and what is the mother and fathers' legal responsibility. If you recognize they aren't necessarily the same, they're a lot easier to answer.


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Anonymous

Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: Swami]
    #1144429 - 12/16/02 04:55 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Sometimes it is better to put forth a general truth and let others see it's application to a specific instance than it is to openly state the answer. I was being a little too general perhaps.

In the same vein however I will offer one last quote to this as my answer.

"People should be held individually responsible for their own actions."

Evolving

That cannot be argued against with any force and I think the conclusions drawn from it are pretty good.


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Offlinehtownkid28
pimpin' ain'teasy

Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 191
Loc: in hell! aahhh!!!!!
Last seen: 12 years, 3 days
Re: Non-Biological Father's Responsibility [Re: Swami]
    #1145701 - 12/16/02 12:54 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

i think that if it could be proven that the mother kept both men in the dark, then i think she should be made to bare the financial burden. the reason that i say this is that she robbed the child of knowing who her true father was, robbed the biological father of time(that he'll never get back) with his daughter, and she probably emotionally crushed the other guy by making him think it was truly his daughter for all those years. for those reasons, i feel that both men should get visitation rights with her (if they want) and the mother should be responsible for the financial aspect of it.


--------------------
"in your pockets with red hot rockets!"

"I love it when a plan comes together!"



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