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Offlinehighdroponics
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Total newbie
    #11419113 - 11/09/09 03:46 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I'm ready now more than ever for a DMT experience but it's been a while since I've researched into it and I really only remember the basics other than what the trip is like which I've got a pretty good idea and I'm sure I can handle myself just fine.

So I'm here asking for a newbie guide to DMT, particularly ayahausca/pharamahausca as I want to take it orally, as well as any links to any websites that may be useful(minus erowid).


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Dr :ronpaul: says to stop trying to treat the side-effects of big government and focus on the core issues. End the Federal Reserve/audit the gold reserves at Fort Knox, abolish the IRS, end all wars and occupancies, stop the building of an empire that will inevitably fail, and cut all unconstitutional federal programs. Put the power back in the peoples' hands by ending this nanny-state.


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OfflineDr.Myco87
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Re: Total newbie [Re: highdroponics]
    #11419122 - 11/09/09 03:47 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Look up the DMT Handbook, you can find a PDF of it I believe. Very easy to understand and very good info.


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"I don’t do drugs. I am drugs."                -Salvador Dali

"I’ve never had a problem with drugs. I’ve had problems with the police."                                          -Keith Richards

"Reality is a crutch for people who can’t cope with drugs."                                          -Lily Tomlin



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OfflineEdgeChaos
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Re: Total newbie [Re: Dr.Myco87]
    #11419182 - 11/09/09 03:57 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Check out dmt-nexus.com if you haven't already.


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Re: Total newbie [Re: highdroponics]
    #11419197 - 11/09/09 03:59 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

forums.ayahuasca.com

But what exactly are you looking to know about it?  For practical purposes, if you've taken mushrooms or LSD before, there isn't much you need to know.

Intent is big, as it always is, but perhaps bigger with ayahuasca.  Vomiting is to be expected.  Have a comfortable environment prepared, have something in mind you'd like to explore/need guidance on, and bottoms up :cheers:

Limiting your diet for several days beforehand is recommended by many of the more experienced folks, since they believe that foods you've eaten recently can alter the character of the experience (this practice is known as dieta... and even if there isn't a biochemical reason for the effect, there's always placebo, that old kissing-cousin of intent :wink:).

You're bound to see people pointing you to a list of foods you CANNOT eat. Most people can safely ignore them, as harmine and harmaline are short-acting RIMAs (Reversible Inhibitors of MAO-A), while all those lists of "prohibited foods" are for people taking irreversible MAOIs (these used to be popular antidepressants, but have since been almost-entirely replaced with the new wave of SSRIs and SNRIs).  However, there are some individuals with an idiosyncratic acute reaction to tyramine, so for these people the list of prohibited foods is useful.  Of course, how do you know that you're one of the sensitive ones until you try it? It's not a bad idea to experiment with gradually increasing amounts of tyramine-rich foods while under the unfluence of harmine/harmaline by itself (without DMT to throw in the element of confusion) before completely disregarding the prohibited foods list.

:yinyang:


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Offlinehighdroponics
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Re: Total newbie [Re: Dr.Myco87]
    #11419202 - 11/09/09 04:00 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you! Already looking into it and I can see now that it's very detailed and even contains pics, can't get any simpler than that.:grin:


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Dr :ronpaul: says to stop trying to treat the side-effects of big government and focus on the core issues. End the Federal Reserve/audit the gold reserves at Fort Knox, abolish the IRS, end all wars and occupancies, stop the building of an empire that will inevitably fail, and cut all unconstitutional federal programs. Put the power back in the peoples' hands by ending this nanny-state.


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OfflinePlatinum
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Re: Total newbie [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11419603 - 11/09/09 05:02 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
You're bound to see people pointing you to a list of foods you CANNOT eat. Ignore them, harmine and harmaline are short-acting RIMAs (Reversible Inhibitors of MAO-A), while all those lists of "prohibited foods" are for people taking irreversible MAOIs (these used to be popular antidepressants, but have since been almost-entirely replaced with the new wave of SSRIs and SNRIs).




See nwo I have a problem here. You're one of few people I've heard say dont listen to the "prohibited foods" but then I hear many others saying "seriously, dont eat these foods or it could be real bad" - who to believe? I know you are a very knowledgeable person entropy, but that doesnt change the fact that theres much debate over this issue.


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: Total newbie [Re: Platinum]
    #11419814 - 11/09/09 05:31 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Nor does it change the fact that one side of the debate is thoroughly ill-informed :shrug:

Moclebemide is a RIMA that's prescribed as  pharmaceutical... and it requires no special dietary restrictions.  And moclebemide is a more thorough inhibitor of MAO than harmine or harmaline.  While there haven't been any scholarly studies I'm aware of on food interactions with harmine and harmine, there's certainly ample first-hand experience.  I've taken a harmine and harmaline, and once they took effect proceeded to eat aged cheese, jerky, fish, etc. Y'know, the "dangerous" foods. No ill effects.  Several other people (including 69Ron and Infundibulum at the Nexus) have done the same, with the same result.

Fact is, unless you've got some rare genetic defect in your tyramine metabolism, those foods simply aren't dangerous with harmine/harmaline/THH. (Not that I've heard of someone having such a defect, but it's theoretically possible)


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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: Total newbie [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11419878 - 11/09/09 05:39 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Nor does it change the fact that one side of the debate is thoroughly ill-informed :shrug:




I have reached the conclusion that the diet is important with reversible MAOI's

I reached it the good old fashioned way: trial, error & lots of puking.

Does that mean my stomach ill-informed me? I guess I have a sensitivity.


--------------------
:peace:    :peace:

  Earth's Essence


Edited by CosmicLion (11/09/09 08:01 PM)


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: Total newbie [Re: CosmicLion]
    #11419986 - 11/09/09 05:57 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Nope, just means you've got a biochemical idiosyncracy.

Apparently a small percentage of people who have an acute sensitivity to tyramine do find themselves needing to limit their diet with moclebemide.  You must be one of those unlucky few. 

Thanks for calling me out on that though, I did phrase my initial post rather irresponsibly, I'll edit it.  Obviously knowing your own body's reactions is the most important thing.  But for the majority of the population, diet isn't an issue when taking RIMAs.


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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: Total newbie [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11420658 - 11/09/09 07:42 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:\I've taken a harmine and harmaline, and once they took effect proceeded to eat aged cheese, jerky, fish, etc. Y'know, the "dangerous" foods. No ill effects.  Several other people (including 69Ron and Infundibulum at the Nexus) have done the same, with the same result.




What is your opinion on taking Harmaline daily for depression?

If you have done these tests then it should be more or less safe.

I have been working on getting my Lioness to take daily Harmaline for depression but have been worried about any more physical or food-based side effects from consistent usage.

I also got her a bunch of B. Caapi leaves to try in a tea to utilize the extra positive effects of THH. Do you think this is viable?

She has an extra sensitive stomach, it's hard for her to eat breakfast without probiotics like yogurt.


--------------------
:peace:    :peace:

  Earth's Essence


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Re: Total newbie [Re: CosmicLion]
    #11421154 - 11/09/09 08:52 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CosmicLion said:
Quote:

Entropymancer said:\I've taken a harmine and harmaline, and once they took effect proceeded to eat aged cheese, jerky, fish, etc. Y'know, the "dangerous" foods. No ill effects.  Several other people (including 69Ron and Infundibulum at the Nexus) have done the same, with the same result.




What is your opinion on taking Harmaline daily for depression?

If you have done these tests then it should be more or less safe.

I have been working on getting my Lioness to take daily Harmaline for depression but have been worried about any more physical or food-based side effects from consistent usage.

I also got her a bunch of B. Caapi leaves to try in a tea to utilize the extra positive effects of THH. Do you think this is viable?

She has an extra sensitive stomach, it's hard for her to eat breakfast without probiotics like yogurt.



I've never tried it myself.  There were some studies done on harmaline as a potential anti-depressant in the 60s or 70s... as I recall, a few of the subjects found it quite helpful, but the majorty found it only sparingly effective or ineffective.  But it can't hurt to try... it works in the same way as the old-fashioned irreversible MAOIs. It's definitely less intrusive (diet-wise), but it's also probably less effective for the same reason.

As long as your lioness is in the majority of the population who don't have to follow dietary restrictions with RIMAs, it should be fine.  It's probably good to have a test-run or two with low and moderate amounts of tyramine-rich foods to make sure she doesn't have the same reaction as you... But from my personal experience, they simply aren't a problem with harmalas.  And I have a rather sensitive stomach too (it's too hard to eat breakfast so I skip it and eat at lunch), so I don't think that would make the tyramine-rich foods any harder on the stomach.

THH is definitely the best of the harmalas from what I've read.  I still need to get around to ordering some.  If I were to try a harmala alkaloid as an antidepressant, THH would be my #1 choice.  You can order it online for a pretty reasonable price.  I don't recall the website, and source discussion isn't allowed here anyway... but I recall there being a lot of discussion about it over at the Nexus a year or so ago (it's been a while since I've been active over there)


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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: Total newbie [Re: highdroponics]
    #11421196 - 11/09/09 08:58 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

highdroponics said:
So I'm here asking for a newbie guide to DMT, particularly ayahausca/pharamahausca as I want to take it orally, as well as any links to any websites that may be useful(minus erowid).





Jorkest's D-Limonene and Fumaric Acid Approach

Here is an awesome extraction that is all natural, uses food-safe d-limonene as the solvent and produces DMT Fumarate, the most preferable form of salted DMT. You can use 99% Alcohol instead of MEK\Acetone to make it even more food-safe.

It also goes into how to convert the fumarate into a smokable freebase. For nasuea and absorption purposes a salt is ideal as less reaction is happening in your stomach. Most salts are are a gooey mess and other salts, as well as freebase, oxidize and break down somewhat fast. DMT Fumarate, created with the use of Fumaric acid, forms nice hard crystals that are easy to digest and have a very long shelf life!

This tek, because of the limonene, produces what is known as "J-Spice" or Jungle Spice. It has a full spectrum of alkaloids from the MHRB. This includes a potentially psychoactive compound called Yuremamine as well as DMT N-Oxide which is said to be extremely psychoactive and functions beautifully as a supplement to N,N-DMT. The mix also contains a series of plant oils which many claim are psychoactive.


Instant ayahuasca little lightening bolt TEK


Here is a good one that is SUPER simple. You just soak your Caapi and MHRB in alcohol and do several pulls. Evaporate, scrape, and pop into gelcaps! Instant pharmahuasca.



A Guide to DMT Enhanced Leaf (Changa)

Changa is an integration of Ayahuasca and smoked DMT. It has Syrian Rue\Caapi extract infused with DMT onto the leaves of a specially prepared medicinal plant blend. Traditionally the leaf would contain an MAOI, such as Caapi leaf. The blend can me made specific for any medical, psychological or spiritual ailments. Different blends can also create some amazing flavors! When made with Harmala extract Changa experiences can be radically longer then smoked DMT experiences, leading to something more along the lines of a small Ayahuasca journey then a rapid roller coaster cannon ride.


--------------------
:peace:    :peace:

  Earth's Essence


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OfflinePlatinum
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Re: Total newbie [Re: CosmicLion]
    #11421220 - 11/09/09 09:01 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks entropy. :thumbup: thats the kinda info I was lookin for rather than a simple, "dont listen to them"


--------------------
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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: Total newbie [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11421365 - 11/09/09 09:19 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
But it can't hurt to try... it works in the same way as the old-fashioned irreversible MAOIs.




Thanks for the info dude, I'm exited to get her started. I hope it works. She is very sensitive to all kinds of natural drugs so hopefully it will work well for her.

In what way is it like an irreversible MAOI? From what I understand all MAOI's bind to the MAO and deactivate it. The reversible ones come off and the MAO is left in tact whereas the irreversible ones stay attached forever. From this definition Harmaline seems most like a reversible.


--------------------
:peace:    :peace:

  Earth's Essence


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Re: Total newbie [Re: CosmicLion]
    #11421405 - 11/09/09 09:25 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CosmicLion said:
This tek, because of the limonene, produces what is known as "J-Spice" or Jungle Spice. It has a full spectrum of alkaloids from the MHRB. This includes a potentially psychoactive compound called Yuremamine




Actually all evidence I'm aware of points firmly away from yuremamine.  The evidence points heavily towards a highly-subtituted beta-carboline as the main non-DMT compound in jungle spice... at least when I last looked into it.  I haven't kept up on any new developments since I finished my Jungle Spice article a year and a half ago.  There were some chem-oriented folks at the Nexus still looking into it when I finished, I'm not sure if they ever managed to characterize it beyong being a complex beta-carboline though.


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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: Total newbie [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11421428 - 11/09/09 09:28 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Actually all evidence I'm aware of points firmly away from yuremamine.  The evidence points heavily towards a highly-subtituted beta-carboline as the main non-DMT compound in jungle spice...




Interesting, sounds like the key to why MHRB is psychoactive without the addition of an outside MAOI.


--------------------
:peace:    :peace:

  Earth's Essence


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Re: Total newbie [Re: CosmicLion]
    #11421456 - 11/09/09 09:32 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CosmicLion said:
In what way is it like an irreversible MAOI? From what I understand all MAOI's bind to the MAO and deactivate it. The reversible ones come off and the MAO is left in tact whereas the irreversible ones stay attached forever. From this definition Harmaline seems most like a reversible.



Sorry, I phrased that kinda confusingly.

All I meant is that MAOIs act as antidepressants by inhibiting the degradation of monoamine neurotransmitters in the synapse, whether they're reversible ones (like harmine) or irreversible ones (like the old-school pharmaceutical MAOIs: Phenelzine, Isocarboxazid, etc.). Of course reversible are safer since they don't have the dietary restrictions on them.


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Re: Total newbie [Re: CosmicLion]
    #11421497 - 11/09/09 09:36 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CosmicLion said:
Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Actually all evidence I'm aware of points firmly away from yuremamine.  The evidence points heavily towards a highly-subtituted beta-carboline as the main non-DMT compound in jungle spice...




Interesting, sounds like the key to why MHRB is psychoactive without the addition of an outside MAOI.



Yep, it does!  I'm hoping the issue receives some decent investigation.  The Entheogen Review published my Jungle Spice article last fall, so that should at least have brought the issue to the attention of some interested parties :smile:


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