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OfflineThisfire
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The Human Soul
    #11411827 - 11/08/09 05:12 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I think the soul is a pretty psychedelic topic, so I am putting it here.

I had a pretty logical sounding thought last night while high.
Please tell me what you think of it.

-------------------------------------------------------------

We humans have a soul because our brain is so advanced and can process the information received from our senses SO well that it is over prepared for them, and has freetime as it were, which causes us to think and be creative.
Where as simpler creature have to focus their entire being on reacting to their senses because their brains cannot process all the information from their senses as fast as we can.

This allows us to predict, and prepare far better then any simpler creature.

But as an accident we also can think and build, things which are not really needed for a creatures survival.

Our ancestors must have roamed all around the world, and not just our human ancestors, but the creatures that evolved into us.
This highly curious and exploration-centric attitude made us have to adapt to a much more varied landscape.
Which raised their intelligence and their ability to survive.

I am thinking that the number of senses a creature has, and the rate at which their brain can process the information, the more of a conscious that creature will have. The more powerful a soul it will have.


--------------------

Let your imagination fill in the blanks.
Weed, Salvia, DXM, MDMA, Speed, Azures, Cubes, Nitrous, DMT, LSD /, Peyote, Ayahuasca


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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: The Human Soul [Re: Thisfire]
    #11411863 - 11/08/09 05:18 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

One way i can think of explaining my concept of the soul is that it's something where the more energy you put into it the more energy you get out. In this way its like an infinite energy source with unknown limits, all i can say is that it be powerful beyond belief. Although the body and mind get tired, the soul does not. One of its main, if not only energies, is self expression.

But i think the sensory array does play a role in its ability to express itself.


Edited by DimensionX (11/08/09 05:24 PM)


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OfflineThisfire
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Re: The Human Soul [Re: DimensionX]
    #11411934 - 11/08/09 05:31 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I am saying that the level of processing of the senses + the number of senses a creature has = Its level of consciousness or awareness, or soul-ness.. lol

I don't think a creature with only 2 senses, no matter how advanced a brain, could ever reach our level consciousness.

Our personality ,I think, is the memory stored from the senses of the things we experience over our lifetime.

Maybe I am still missing parts, and I am no brain scientist, but I just have a good feeling that the senses and our brains ability to process and store/remember them are highly connected with our sense of self, or our soul.


--------------------

Let your imagination fill in the blanks.
Weed, Salvia, DXM, MDMA, Speed, Azures, Cubes, Nitrous, DMT, LSD /, Peyote, Ayahuasca


Edited by Thisfire (11/08/09 05:31 PM)


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Re: The Human Soul [Re: Thisfire]
    #11411945 - 11/08/09 05:33 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Thisfire said:
I am saying that the level of processing of the senses + the number of senses a creature has = Its level of consciousness or awareness, or soul-ness.. lol

I don't think a creature with only 2 senses, no matter how advanced a brain, could ever reach our level consciousness.

Our personality ,I think, is the memory stored from the senses of the things we experience over our lifetime.

Maybe I am still missing parts, and I am no brain scientist, but I just have a good feeling that the senses and our brains ability to process and store/remember them are highly connected with our sense of self, or our soul.




That is a totally awesome idea. :thumbup:


--------------------
Nothing I write on Shroomery's message boards or in private messages are true.  I am fucking crazy and I make all this shit up because I can.

[quote]sploogepanz55 said:
^^^ haha what a bummer, shad0w. All this talk about dying. :smile:
[/quote]

[quote]psychoanomaly said:
And so, I feel your intolerance and phobia towards rectal administration of psychedelics is a violation of the music of the spheres :rolleyes:[/quote]

[quote]shroom_sandwich said:
I could have sworn I seen a thread about a guy saying his dog killed the neighbors chickens earlier....[/quote]


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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: The Human Soul [Re: Thisfire]
    #11412006 - 11/08/09 05:40 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

One interesting part of it, you may disagree, is the ability for self reflection. This can be thought of as a sense in itself, a sense of self :lol:

But it is an internal sense. So even if the self was made up of its experiences of the external world now that it has the ability to look at itself it then has ability to reprogram itself and can thus create its own internal experiences. Through these internal experiences it can express itself and through doing so gain higher levels of conciousness.


Edited by DimensionX (11/08/09 05:41 PM)


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Re: The Human Soul [Re: DimensionX]
    #11412188 - 11/08/09 06:09 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

this should probably go in the philosophy section.

anyway, the soul is an idea. i don't like the concept because it indicates separateness. everything is reality, so the soul seems like a selfish idea to me.


--------------------
[quote]Oweyervishice said:
[quote]Icelander said:
What is at the bottom of it?[/quote]

Death anxiety? :flirt:[/quote]


Edited by nootropic (11/08/09 06:09 PM)


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OfflineThisfire
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Re: The Human Soul [Re: DimensionX]
    #11412619 - 11/08/09 07:20 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DimensionX said:
One interesting part of it, you may disagree, is the ability for self reflection. This can be thought of as a sense in itself, a sense of self :lol:

But it is an internal sense. So even if the self was made up of its experiences of the external world now that it has the ability to look at itself it then has ability to reprogram itself and can thus create its own internal experiences. Through these internal experiences it can express itself and through doing so gain higher levels of conciousness.




I wonder if creatures like cats and dogs, or even dolphins and other smart mammals can self reflect.
If not then that would be another interesting ability we have.
Do other animals have a sense of guilt?

and ahh nootropic, This should probably be in the philosophy section, your right.

I feel that the idea of a soul is pretty selfish, but its understandable.
Humans are pretty impressively independent compared to most creatures.


--------------------

Let your imagination fill in the blanks.
Weed, Salvia, DXM, MDMA, Speed, Azures, Cubes, Nitrous, DMT, LSD /, Peyote, Ayahuasca


Edited by Thisfire (11/08/09 07:21 PM)


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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: The Human Soul [Re: Thisfire]
    #11412676 - 11/08/09 07:27 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I think all consciousness is self reflective to some degree. It knows its alive, it feels conscious. So its basically feeling itself. One of the main difference with humans is that we have a higher degree of self awareness but not necessarily sensory awareness, some animals can kick our ass at that. Which is why i believe that the higher level of self awareness is what brings about higher consciousness.


Edited by DimensionX (11/08/09 07:27 PM)


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Offlinenootropic
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Re: The Human Soul [Re: Thisfire]
    #11412680 - 11/08/09 07:27 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Thisfire said:
Quote:

DimensionX said:
One interesting part of it, you may disagree, is the ability for self reflection. This can be thought of as a sense in itself, a sense of self :lol:

But it is an internal sense. So even if the self was made up of its experiences of the external world now that it has the ability to look at itself it then has ability to reprogram itself and can thus create its own internal experiences. Through these internal experiences it can express itself and through doing so gain higher levels of conciousness.




I wonder if creatures like cats and dogs, or even dolphins and other smart mammals can self reflect.
If not then that would be another interesting ability we have.
Do other animals have a sense of guilt?

and ahh nootropic, This should probably be in the philosophy section, your right.

I feel that the idea of a soul is pretty selfish, but its understandable.
Humans are pretty impressively independent compared to most creatures.




it all depends on perspective. if you zoom out enough, humans are insignificant specks on a tiny planet. the self/separateness/soul is a subjective idea. everything is reality.


--------------------
[quote]Oweyervishice said:
[quote]Icelander said:
What is at the bottom of it?[/quote]

Death anxiety? :flirt:[/quote]


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OfflineThisfire
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Re: The Human Soul [Re: nootropic]
    #11412701 - 11/08/09 07:31 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think we are all that insignificant. Maybe now we are unimportant, but we definitely have some huge potential.

And yeah Dimension, what I am kinda saying is that our ability to remember our senses and our brains mastery of processing them at such a high rate, that our sense of self, or our reflective ability is sort of like a byproduct of this process.

However it also may be a totally different part of the brain that deals with self reflection/awareness, so there is that.


--------------------

Let your imagination fill in the blanks.
Weed, Salvia, DXM, MDMA, Speed, Azures, Cubes, Nitrous, DMT, LSD /, Peyote, Ayahuasca


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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: The Human Soul [Re: Thisfire]
    #11412736 - 11/08/09 07:36 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah good idea. And since psychedelics cause the sensory signals to fade slower it gives the brain more time to process them so this could result in higher level of conciousness.


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Offlinenootropic
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Re: The Human Soul [Re: Thisfire]
    #11412794 - 11/08/09 07:44 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Thisfire said:
I don't think we are all that insignificant. Maybe now we are unimportant, but we definitely have some huge potential.




once again, it depends on perspective. importance and meaning are given. they are subjective ideas; they are not the objective reality.


Quote:

Thisfire said:
And yeah Dimension, what I am kinda saying is that our ability to remember our senses and our brains mastery of processing them at such a high rate, that our sense of self, or our reflective ability is sort of like a byproduct of this process.

However it also may be a totally different part of the brain that deals with self reflection/awareness, so there is that.




where did you get this information? it seems highly speculative and lacking evidence.


--------------------
[quote]Oweyervishice said:
[quote]Icelander said:
What is at the bottom of it?[/quote]

Death anxiety? :flirt:[/quote]


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OfflineThisfire
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Re: The Human Soul [Re: DimensionX]
    #11412796 - 11/08/09 07:45 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, I am REALLY fascinated by the way psychedelics work, id love to get into that field haha
Its completely amazing no matter how you think about it.

The way they alter the way we think, the way we interpret information, and the way we take in our senses.
Waah sooo incredible!

This all just an idea I had last night.
I have no evidence, its just speculation.

It seems very logical to me, but I have no way to test it. =/


--------------------

Let your imagination fill in the blanks.
Weed, Salvia, DXM, MDMA, Speed, Azures, Cubes, Nitrous, DMT, LSD /, Peyote, Ayahuasca


Edited by Thisfire (11/08/09 07:46 PM)


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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: The Human Soul [Re: nootropic]
    #11412808 - 11/08/09 07:46 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

nootropic said:
Quote:

Thisfire said:
I don't think we are all that insignificant. Maybe now we are unimportant, but we definitely have some huge potential.




once again, it depends on perspective. importance and meaning are given. they are subjective ideas; they are not the objective reality.


Quote:

Thisfire said:
And yeah Dimension, what I am kinda saying is that our ability to remember our senses and our brains mastery of processing them at such a high rate, that our sense of self, or our reflective ability is sort of like a byproduct of this process.

However it also may be a totally different part of the brain that deals with self reflection/awareness, so there is that.




where did you get this information? it seems highly speculative and lacking evidence.




lol its his theory not something he got from somewhere. A product of his thought processes.


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OfflineThisfire
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Re: The Human Soul [Re: nootropic]
    #11412864 - 11/08/09 07:55 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

nootropic said:
Quote:

Thisfire said:
I don't think we are all that insignificant. Maybe now we are unimportant, but we definitely have some huge potential.




once again, it depends on perspective. importance and meaning are given. they are subjective ideas; they are not the objective reality.


Quote:

Thisfire said:
And yeah Dimension, what I am kinda saying is that our ability to remember our senses and our brains mastery of processing them at such a high rate, that our sense of self, or our reflective ability is sort of like a byproduct of this process.

However it also may be a totally different part of the brain that deals with self reflection/awareness, so there is that.




where did you get this information? it seems highly speculative and lacking evidence.




I think you don't give enough credit to subjective feelings.
They are very much reality after all, just independent to each person.

Id say the meaning we give things are very important to us, and what makes us human.
After all, its our brain that gives an object meaning.

I think understanding subjective feelings is just as important as understanding the reality around us.
Maybe I misunderstood, but it seems you feel that subjective feelings are unimportant.

Understanding how we perceive reality, and understanding the actual reality are both equally important right?


--------------------

Let your imagination fill in the blanks.
Weed, Salvia, DXM, MDMA, Speed, Azures, Cubes, Nitrous, DMT, LSD /, Peyote, Ayahuasca


Edited by Thisfire (11/08/09 07:56 PM)


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Re: The Human Soul [Re: Thisfire]
    #11412954 - 11/08/09 08:08 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Thisfire said:
Quote:

nootropic said:
Quote:

Thisfire said:
I don't think we are all that insignificant. Maybe now we are unimportant, but we definitely have some huge potential.




once again, it depends on perspective. importance and meaning are given. they are subjective ideas; they are not the objective reality.


Quote:

Thisfire said:
And yeah Dimension, what I am kinda saying is that our ability to remember our senses and our brains mastery of processing them at such a high rate, that our sense of self, or our reflective ability is sort of like a byproduct of this process.

However it also may be a totally different part of the brain that deals with self reflection/awareness, so there is that.




where did you get this information? it seems highly speculative and lacking evidence.




I think you don't give enough credit to subjective feelings.
They are very much reality after all, just independent to each person.

Id say the meaning we give things are very important to us, and what makes us human.
After all, its our brain that gives an object meaning.

I think understanding subjective feelings is just as important as understanding the reality around us.
Maybe I misunderstood, but it seems you feel that subjective feelings are unimportant.

Understanding how we perceive reality, and understanding the actual reality are both equally important right?




i don't deem subjective feelings unimportant. i just think it's necessary to differentiate between the subjective and objective when discussing certain topics.

for example:
Quote:

I think understanding subjective feelings is just as important as understanding the reality around us.



that is your subjective perspective. but, does reality care about understanding such things? does reality have perspective or give meaning? no. reality just is, and your subjective ideas must be kept separate from what is the objective reality for the sake of discussion.

Likewise:
"Understanding how we perceive reality and understanding the actual reality", just are. they are only important because you make them important. there is no objective importance.


--------------------
[quote]Oweyervishice said:
[quote]Icelander said:
What is at the bottom of it?[/quote]

Death anxiety? :flirt:[/quote]


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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: The Human Soul [Re: nootropic]
    #11412973 - 11/08/09 08:10 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

There is clear deductive reasoning involved in the OP's idea which gives it credence.


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Re: The Human Soul [Re: DimensionX]
    #11412985 - 11/08/09 08:12 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

i apologize if my explanation is confusing. here is a clearer one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_%28philosophy%29


--------------------
[quote]Oweyervishice said:
[quote]Icelander said:
What is at the bottom of it?[/quote]

Death anxiety? :flirt:[/quote]


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OfflineThisfire
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Re: The Human Soul [Re: nootropic]
    #11413088 - 11/08/09 08:24 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I understand, but its understandable that because we are here in this universe and that we can give meaning, gives us some level of significance, and the universe some level of personality... if that makes sense. We are apart of the universe after all.

Could it be possible though, that our brains could be filtering or altering the way in which we perceive the true reality?
In which case understanding ourselves should be higher right now then understanding the reality.
We may be unintentionally misleading ourselves is what I mean.

Though we have no evidence that the average brain is blocking our understanding of the universe. So far.. :grin:

Edit:

I say this because understanding our awareness/consciousness is a way in understanding subjectivity as a whole.


--------------------

Let your imagination fill in the blanks.
Weed, Salvia, DXM, MDMA, Speed, Azures, Cubes, Nitrous, DMT, LSD /, Peyote, Ayahuasca


Edited by Thisfire (11/08/09 08:32 PM)


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Re: The Human Soul [Re: Thisfire]
    #11413135 - 11/08/09 08:32 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Thisfire said:
I think the soul is a pretty psychedelic topic, so I am putting it here.

I had a pretty logical sounding thought last night while high.
Please tell me what you think of it.

-------------------------------------------------------------

We humans have a soul because our brain is so advanced and can process the information received from our senses SO well that it is over prepared for them, and has freetime as it were, which causes us to think and be creative.
Where as simpler creature have to focus their entire being on reacting to their senses because their brains cannot process all the information from their senses as fast as we can.

This allows us to predict, and prepare far better then any simpler creature.

But as an accident we also can think and build, things which are not really needed for a creatures survival.

Our ancestors must have roamed all around the world, and not just our human ancestors, but the creatures that evolved into us.
This highly curious and exploration-centric attitude made us have to adapt to a much more varied landscape.
Which raised their intelligence and their ability to survive.

I am thinking that the number of senses a creature has, and the rate at which their brain can process the information, the more of a conscious that creature will have. The more powerful a soul it will have.




What you are trying to say is what this book is about, for the most part.

you should read it.


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