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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature?
    #11411637 - 11/08/09 02:38 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

This may have been suggested before, but I would like to see it. Two people volunteer to tackle opposite sides of an issue.

Here are my proposed rules:

1. Only two people may participate at a time. One debater may pass the wand to another, but then may not return.

2. The rules of debate must be strictly observed as to insults, strawmen, fallacies, off-topic comments. etc.

3. Each person will initially state their premise and then try to make a case for their POV.

4. Debaters must alternate and keep responses to a few paragraphs at most. No wall of text type tactics.

5. No links (distill the essence if you wish).

6. No cut and paste except for reasonably short quotes with credit to the author or source.

7. Relevant questions must be answered. No dodging allowed.

8. Repeating points already made is not allowed. This is not to be an endless circle jerk.

Of course this may put an extra load on Diploid or other mod and they will have to agree to the extra refereeing.

When complete in seven days, other members may comment (in a separate thread?) and if thread is worthwhile may be added to a special archive for easy reference to keep future members from going over the same material year after year.


To responders:

Yay or nay?

Rule change suggestions.

Potential topic and 'combatants' step up to the plate.


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OfflineUnparalized
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11411665 - 11/08/09 02:43 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

How about instead of 2 people there be a representative head to a team and the head be the one who does the posting and debating, but none-the-less, a team assembled for both sides of the topics scheduled for debate.  Also a polling for what should be debated by registered users.  Furthermore, create a team designed to come up with desirable debate topics for the members to vote on.


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This Is All Just An Echo Of What Has All Ready Happened!

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Unparalized]
    #11411746 - 11/08/09 02:57 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

A team is fine, but should be done through PM so as not to add extra clutter.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11411971 - 11/08/09 03:36 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Myself, fivepointer, livingdeadman and markos.

The ultimate tag team.:curbyourenthusiasm:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Icelander]
    #11411981 - 11/08/09 03:38 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I have a toaster oven picked out as the first prize.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11412051 - 11/08/09 03:49 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

So we can burn toast and pretend it's all the nonbelievers.:hellfire: :curbyourenthusiasm:  :lolsy:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineBooby
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11416697 - 11/09/09 04:13 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Potential topic and 'combatants' step up to the plate.




The problem with debate, as I see it, is that people can think that if a point is carried then it becomes policy. I think people may agree that government policy isn't subject to debate.

Anyone want to debate this?

edit government policy isn't dependent on debate


Edited by Booby (11/09/09 04:21 AM)

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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11416718 - 11/09/09 04:22 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds good. We could have a open-to-all part of the debate where people can debate the proceedings of the actual debate.

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InvisibleLakefingers
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Booby]
    #11416724 - 11/09/09 04:24 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Debate: Decent idea. Are there enough interested and capable board members?

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InvisibleRationalEgo
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11416743 - 11/09/09 04:30 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I like this idea and certainly would be willing to debate on any number of topics.

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OfflineBooby
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11416788 - 11/09/09 04:49 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I'm incapable as already evidenced and yet I think debate is a valid tool in the process of establishing alternative societies, which is the essence of anti-monopolizing I guess.

edit which are the essence of anti-monopolizing I guess.


Edited by Booby (11/09/09 05:19 AM)

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Offlinehidenseek
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Booby]
    #11417238 - 11/09/09 08:02 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

thers new psp features?

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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11423684 - 11/10/09 12:29 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

so?  Who's first?  I want to watch!  :duel:


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11423727 - 11/10/09 12:38 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Lakefingers said:
Debate: Decent idea. Are there enough interested and capable board members?





Watching a debate happen in real time is probably enough to generate interest and an aspiration to capability.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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OfflineTheBalance
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Icelander]
    #11423885 - 11/10/09 01:26 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Myself, fivepointer, livingdeadman and markos.

The ultimate tag team.:curbyourenthusiasm:




Who is livingdeadman...??

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11424638 - 11/10/09 08:01 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I think the idea of spectating is a good one. This gives newbies and other the chance to really watch the process without getting emotionally involved. Watch and learn.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Icelander]
    #11424674 - 11/10/09 08:11 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

:popcorn:


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InvisibleRationalEgo
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11425250 - 11/10/09 10:35 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

TBH I'll be glad when this format becomes regular. I'm not interested in responding to everyone chiming in randomly with their two cents on a thread all the time. Its not constructive.

If anyone is going to get anywhere philosophically on a forum there must be a proper structured format for debate.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11425281 - 11/10/09 10:41 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Not everything needs to be "constructive". I see room for some of both. I fear if it was serious debate only there would be few folk and few posts. I am looking for some balance.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11425283 - 11/10/09 10:41 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Well, we can either petition the powers that be to make a special thread with member lock-out or just create a self-policing (read: peer pressure) thread like mature adults.

Yoo-hoo, oh Ythan...

Let the games begin: who volunteers to be the first two combatants and what topic?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11425294 - 11/10/09 10:42 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think there is enough maturity or peer pressure at the shroomery to make it happen.  We will need a special thread.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleRationalEgo
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Icelander]
    #11425352 - 11/10/09 10:49 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

A specialized sub-forum seems more appropriate.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11425374 - 11/10/09 10:52 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineC.M. Mann
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Icelander]
    #11426910 - 11/10/09 02:51 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I'm interested in learning, and I can learn from watching this debate-2.0. Hopefully there will be more educational content, than the usual battle of the ego's produces!  (are there going to be prizes?):peace:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #11426947 - 11/10/09 02:55 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Well I think this really is a good idea and fills a need that a lot of serious folk have. I have seen many strong thinkers leave here because it's such a mess. I don't mind it completely but do wonder what a real debate might actually feel like. :lol:

Anyway I'm going to PM the management and if you think it's a good idea you should too.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Icelander]
    #11427394 - 11/10/09 05:05 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Why not hold them in someone's journal? I'm not sure, but I think  any posts can be edited by the owner, so any posts that are inappropriate can be edited by the journal owner who could act as mod?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: falcon]
    #11427414 - 11/10/09 05:10 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting idea but the same problem might arise of someone intruding over and over again.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Icelander]
    #11427473 - 11/10/09 05:18 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe give the user temporary ban powers, that apply only to their journal? Don't know if that is possible or not.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11427585 - 11/10/09 05:33 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

This may have been suggested before, but I would like to see it. Two people volunteer to tackle opposite sides of an issue.

Someone suggested this a while back, don't remember who, but it's a good idea. I said back then that I'm up for it. I still am.

Well, we can either petition the powers that be to make a special thread with member lock-out or just create a self-policing (read: peer pressure) thread like mature adults.

I'll do the work. It's a given with the childish personalities that frequent this place that someone will not read the rules or break them deliberately. I'll have to delete posts from non-combatants as necessary.

Now we just have to pick a topic and two volunteers. I'm ready when they are...


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Diploid]
    #11427606 - 11/10/09 05:38 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe OC should pick first topic as this was his brainstorm. Then maybe folk who are interested in debating it can apply to Diploid and he can do some kind of drawing for the spots.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Icelander]
    #11428285 - 11/10/09 07:10 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Me vs. someone who only uses 10% of their brain... :tongue:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11428305 - 11/10/09 07:13 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

That would be me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Icelander]
    #11428367 - 11/10/09 07:20 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

One more rule proposal and one change:

No handing off. Will be too confusing.

One main point per post.

Can we put a time lock, Diploid (or Ythan)?

A subforum for archiving only. Keep this in the main forum for a week.


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OfflineCaptainCrunch
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11428420 - 11/10/09 07:27 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

im intrested when do we start... let the games begin

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Offlinehidenseek
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: CaptainCrunch]
    #11429102 - 11/10/09 09:15 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

so what is the new psp update?

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11429763 - 11/10/09 10:38 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

We start now. The first battle is stickyd. Read and follow the rules. We've already gotten off to a bad start and I had to untangle and delete a bunch of off-topic posts.

The first person to post in the thread MUST be proposing a point of view he/she will defend. The second person MUST be agreeing to defend the contrasting point of view.

GO!


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleRationalEgo
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Diploid]
    #11430799 - 11/11/09 02:07 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Why not a sub-forum specifically catered for the rules outlined here. I'm sure some experienced member such as OC, Ice or you Diploid could moderate it quite well. That way each thread made would be a a topic and position for debate and the first to respond would be the person who intends to debate the opposite position on the topic too the full. No other posters would be able to 'chime in' once the topic has been responded too.

Something like that would be more appropriate as multiple debates could take place between serious posters.

Could be a bit of work to moderate though.

Edited by RationalEgo (11/11/09 02:21 AM)

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11430817 - 11/11/09 02:10 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Words have to be clarified, otherwise the argument could last forever.

Words have to be as simple as possible, no big words allowed without a subsequent show of meaning following it.

with this I am in, otherwise FUCK that cyclical shit and to be on with it.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #11433064 - 11/11/09 01:03 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Isn't this just a subforum thats exactly the same as the forum its subbed in?

Or isit more of a one on one thang?
That everybody can read :shrug:
What about PM's?

Whatever, it could be funny...


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Chronic7]
    #11435382 - 11/11/09 05:57 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

So what... nobody's going to start? The thread is waiting...


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleRationalEgo
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Diploid]
    #11438482 - 11/12/09 01:57 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I'm awaiting an actual sub-forum.

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InvisibleLakefingers
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11438593 - 11/12/09 02:58 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

If you'd thrive so well there then the new bullpen topic by Ahimsa should be no problem for you.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Diploid]
    #11438815 - 11/12/09 05:20 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
So what... nobody's going to start? The thread is waiting...




Reading the stickied thread, I really think it isn't a good idea to only let one person propose an idea and then to not let anyone else propose any other topic until someone accepts the first topic.

Case in point: Ahisma's topic sucks. I personally wouldn't argue against the fact that everything exists dependently in relation to each other, and to play devil's advocate would be pointlessly banal for someone who doesn't spend much time around here anyways.

I really think that it should be amended that people can continue to propose challenges, in the same format, and that the first challenge that is accepted stops the suggestions for new topics until the next week. This prevents dud topics from preventing insightful, productive topics from rising into play.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleRationalEgo
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #11438821 - 11/12/09 05:22 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Diploid said:
So what... nobody's going to start? The thread is waiting...




Reading the stickied thread, I really think it isn't a good idea to only let one person propose an idea and then to not let anyone else propose any other topic until someone accepts the first topic.

Case in point: Ahisma's topic sucks. I personally wouldn't argue against the fact that everything exists dependently in relation to each other, and to play devil's advocate would be pointlessly banal for someone who doesn't spend much time around here anyways.





This is why a separate sub-forum is needed. In a sub-forum many debate proposals can be issued as new threads and debates can continue as per the rules outlined in OC's initial post.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11438888 - 11/12/09 06:15 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I suspect that the administration would be hesistant to install a new sub-forum until it became evident that there was enough traffic-flow to warrant it, and in the meantime, making it so that people can keep suggesting topics until someone accepts one, instead of fishing around for someone to finally accept a dud one just to get it out of the way for better ones, will start getting the ball rolling on producing that traffic for your sub-forum. :wink:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #11438971 - 11/12/09 07:03 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

It's WAY too early for a subforum. If this idea catches on and becomes popular, then we can talk about it. For now, we can't even get the first thread going.

Reading the stickied thread, I really think it isn't a good idea to only let one person propose an idea and then to not let anyone else propose any other topic until someone accepts the first topic.

Agreed. Rule change posted in the debate thread.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinehidenseek
loafter
Male


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Diploid]
    #11439846 - 11/12/09 11:10 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

the new psp features suck cause you probably have to upgrade your psp and who knows what sony puts in their upgrade to fuck with you

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InvisibleMnboardin
Stranger
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Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 767
Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: hidenseek]
    #11440545 - 11/12/09 12:55 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hidenseek said:
the new psp features suck cause you probably have to upgrade your psp and who knows what sony puts in their upgrade to fuck with you




:lol:


--------------------
:hamletmonkey:

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Offlinehidenseek
loafter
Male


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Mnboardin]
    #11440638 - 11/12/09 01:05 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

well i asked about what the new features were twice, and no one answered me, so i figured, i debate it anyways, i still dont get this thread, did i do it right?

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InvisibleMnboardin
Stranger
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Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 767
Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: hidenseek]
    #11440715 - 11/12/09 01:15 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hidenseek said:
well i asked about what the new features were twice, and no one answered me, so i figured, i debate it anyways, i still dont get this thread, did i do it right?




How do the new features of the PSP "suck?"


--------------------
:hamletmonkey:

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Offlinehidenseek
loafter
Male


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: Mnboardin]
    #11442837 - 11/12/09 06:01 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mnboardin said:
Quote:

hidenseek said:
well i asked about what the new features were twice, and no one answered me, so i figured, i debate it anyways, i still dont get this thread, did i do it right?




How do the new features of the PSP "suck?"




Quote:

hidenseek said:
the new psp features suck CAUSE YOU PROBABLY HAVE TO UPGRADE your psp and WHO KNOWS WHAT SONY PUTS IN THEIR UPDATES TO FUCKWITH YOU



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Offlinehidenseek
loafter
Male


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Pure debate: New weekly PSP feature? [Re: hidenseek]
    #11442848 - 11/12/09 06:03 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

AND LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I DIDNT EVEN KNOW THERE WAS WEEKLY UPDATES



edit, caps are cool

Edited by hidenseek (11/12/09 06:04 PM)

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