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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: Grizzly Adams]
    #11428252 -

Petroleum isn't rare?

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: memes]
    #11428735 -

meams said:
Mr.Al said:
Again, this is not like the housing bubble because you can't print up some gold whenever you feel like it.



I'm sorry...  Is this implying you can print up some houses whenever you feel like it?


I'm sorry, but your avatar says economist so I would hope you know what a fiat currency is.
Mr. Al is talking about printing PAPER currency. Gold is a metal..an element. SOmething that can't be countefeited...at least to the degree paper can


--------------------
Spawn I Have: Blewitt, Reishi, Maitake, Chicken of the Woods, Parasol, Shaggy Mane, King, Blue and Gold Oyster, Shiitake, King Stropharia, Lions Mane, Almond Portabello, Elm Oyster, Phoenix Oyster, Nameko, Enoki, White Beech,

Spawn I Want: Corcyceps Sp., Cauliflower Mushrooms, Agaricus species (Portobello), Pink Oyster, Piopinno, ...anything else you might have


Primitive Skills                                     

Any information I've posted is only related to fictional purposes. I do not advocate growing any illegal mushrooms 
...I DO advocate learning about
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: RonPaulVerm]
    #11429262 -

RonPaulVerm said:
meams said:
Mr.Al said:
Again, this is not like the housing bubble because you can't print up some gold whenever you feel like it.



I'm sorry...  Is this implying you can print up some houses whenever you feel like it?


I'm sorry, but your avatar says economist so I would hope you know what a fiat currency is.
Mr. Al is talking about printing PAPER currency. Gold is a metal..an element. SOmething that can't be countefeited...at least to the degree paper can


Please feel free to re-read what I quoted.  Then think about what you just said.  Then figure out why i'm :rofl:

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: RonPaulVerm]
    #11431668 -

RonPaulVerm said:
meams said:
Mr.Al said:
Again, this is not like the housing bubble because you can't print up some gold whenever you feel like it.



I'm sorry...  Is this implying you can print up some houses whenever you feel like it?


I'm sorry, but your avatar says economist so I would hope you know what a fiat currency is.
Mr. Al is talking about printing PAPER currency. Gold is a metal..an element. SOmething that can't be countefeited...at least to the degree paper can



Do you understand the definition of currency? It's a medium of exchange, that can be exchanged for other country's medium at a floating rate. They're just digits. It doesn't matter what its made of. And btw it's not very easy to counterfeit a dollar bill so that argument doesn't hold up. Brace yourself for this: gold isn't magical. Ron Paul is just trying to sell sell you something. Maybe it's a conspiracy.

What is in your wallet? How do you pay for things, with specks of gold? This isn't the 19th century.


--------------------

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: ArmFromTheAbyss]
    #11431926 -

ArmFromTheAbyss said:
RonPaulVerm said:
meams said:
Mr.Al said:
Again, this is not like the housing bubble because you can't print up some gold whenever you feel like it.



I'm sorry...  Is this implying you can print up some houses whenever you feel like it?


I'm sorry, but your avatar says economist so I would hope you know what a fiat currency is.
Mr. Al is talking about printing PAPER currency. Gold is a metal..an element. SOmething that can't be countefeited...at least to the degree paper can



Do you understand the definition of currency? It's a medium of exchange, that can be exchanged for other country's medium at a floating rate. They're just digits. It doesn't matter what its made of. And btw it's not very easy to counterfeit a dollar bill so that argument doesn't hold up. Brace yourself for this: gold isn't magical. Ron Paul is just trying to sell sell you something. Maybe it's a conspiracy.

What is in your wallet? How do you pay for things, with specks of gold? This isn't the 19th century.


When I talk about counterfeiting I actually mean it in a different way. The dollar is a currency (medium of exchange) that exists as paper. So the federal Reserve created  paper currency (Federal Reserve Notes) and DOES make it hard for other independent sources to replicate. However, they control how much of it is in circulation. So since it is paper they can just keep printing and printing and spending and spending......with gold (it's not magical, mushrooms are) you can't do that! You could go mine it! Which people did during the gold rush!
I don't appreciate your stabs at humor because you make me feel like I'm less than you. It sux that I can't be talking to you instead of reading these typed words because maybe you don't mean to come off as a douchebag :shrug:

As for Ron Paul selling me something...I don't see what you're getting at. Ron Paul is talking about getting back to sound money like many economists. The founding fathers and many others KNEW that paper currency is dangerous. Leaders use it to fund wars and other events that they would not otherwise be able to afford.

What's in my wallet? Federal Reserve Notes...and it sucks! I was born into this system and so were you! But that damn central bank has only been around for 96 years. So let's abolish it. You think stores are going to take my silver? hahahaha

As for a world without money; one with citizens bartering...if only.


--------------------
Spawn I Have: Blewitt, Reishi, Maitake, Chicken of the Woods, Parasol, Shaggy Mane, King, Blue and Gold Oyster, Shiitake, King Stropharia, Lions Mane, Almond Portabello, Elm Oyster, Phoenix Oyster, Nameko, Enoki, White Beech,

Spawn I Want: Corcyceps Sp., Cauliflower Mushrooms, Agaricus species (Portobello), Pink Oyster, Piopinno, ...anything else you might have


Primitive Skills                                     

Any information I've posted is only related to fictional purposes. I do not advocate growing any illegal mushrooms 
...I DO advocate learning about
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: RonPaulVerm]
    #11431937 -

Quote:
As for a world without money; one with citizens bartering...if only.


Yeah, it would be great to live in a world of even greater extreme inefficiency. :smirk:

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: RonPaulVerm]
    #11432150 -

RonPaulVerm said:
As for a world without money; one with citizens bartering...if only.


Yay!  If only the world got LESS done than it does now.


Perfect example:  My friend wanted to trade some of his adderol for some bud.  My neighbor wanted adderol, but was out of green.  These two individuals CAN NOT barter, my neighbor doesn't have anything my friend wants.  Now if only my friend would be willing to trade his adderol for an equivalent sum of CASH, which he could then go use to buy WEED, we wouldn't have an issue.  Friend would have his weed, neighbor would have her adderol, and I'd have no headaches.

But that isn't what happened - and as a result we DON'T have trade/economic activity.

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: Redstorm]
    #11432229 -

meams said:
Yay!  If only the world got LESS done than it does now.



What exactly is the world getting done? At what point will we be getting less done? What is there to be done?
Why are people more often motivated to do things for money and not for love or companionship or respect?
(honest questions, not being facetious)

Redstorm said:
Yeah, it would be great to live in a world of even greater extreme inefficiency. :smirk:


Well we as citizens would have to do a lot more on our own and in our community and we couldn't rely on corporations or government nearly as much. Unfortunately, if we were to switch to that some people would be fucked! Our convenient lifestyles would have to compromised.
I think we as people should know how to build a shelter for ourselves and/with family...because I doubt you could barter a house...but you never know.....:smirk:


--------------------
Spawn I Have: Blewitt, Reishi, Maitake, Chicken of the Woods, Parasol, Shaggy Mane, King, Blue and Gold Oyster, Shiitake, King Stropharia, Lions Mane, Almond Portabello, Elm Oyster, Phoenix Oyster, Nameko, Enoki, White Beech,

Spawn I Want: Corcyceps Sp., Cauliflower Mushrooms, Agaricus species (Portobello), Pink Oyster, Piopinno, ...anything else you might have


Primitive Skills                                     

Any information I've posted is only related to fictional purposes. I do not advocate growing any illegal mushrooms 
...I DO advocate learning about
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: memes]
    #11432233 -

Quote:
meams said:  Now if only my friend would be willing to trade his adderol for an equivalent sum of CASH, which he could then go use to buy WEED, we wouldn't have an issue.


If only we didn't have ridiculous drug laws and your friend grew WEED we wouldn't have an issue


--------------------
Spawn I Have: Blewitt, Reishi, Maitake, Chicken of the Woods, Parasol, Shaggy Mane, King, Blue and Gold Oyster, Shiitake, King Stropharia, Lions Mane, Almond Portabello, Elm Oyster, Phoenix Oyster, Nameko, Enoki, White Beech,

Spawn I Want: Corcyceps Sp., Cauliflower Mushrooms, Agaricus species (Portobello), Pink Oyster, Piopinno, ...anything else you might have


Primitive Skills                                     

Any information I've posted is only related to fictional purposes. I do not advocate growing any illegal mushrooms 
...I DO advocate learning about
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: RonPaulVerm]
    #11432287 -

RonPaulVerm said:
What exactly is the world getting done? At what point will we be getting less done? What is there to be done?
Why are people more often motivated to do things for money and not for love or companionship or respect?
(honest questions, not being facetious)



Here are the answers to your questions.
What is the world getting done?
Transactions are being made that benefit both of the parties involved (one values the good more than the cash, one values the cash more than the good).  These transactions, aside from generating value for both parties (explained above in parenthesis) also generate tax revenues for the government, which helps to pay for various social programs that the gov't has instituted to help alleviate the suffering of the poorest of the poor.

When will we be getting less done?
We would be getting less done if we were unable to facilitate these transactions due to the absence of dual needs. 

Why are people...?
People are often motivated to do things for money and not for love or campionship or respect because money is the tool that purchases the goods that increase our standard of living.  And since the fundamental nature of mandkind is to act in his own self-interest, we operate accordingly.



RonPaulVerm said:
If only we didn't have ridiculous drug laws and your friend grew WEED we wouldn't have an issue


Entirely beside the point.  My example was fabricated to explain to you why money exists, is beneficial, and is here to stay.

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: memes]
    #11432312 -

Quote:
My example was fabricated


*GASP*


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: Grizzly Adams]
    #11432367 -

Grizzly Adams said:
ok... i could think of a billion other things that are rare and worth jack shit.
not everything that is rare has extraordinary value..
do you think diamonds have value because they are rare?
diamonds are just as common as petroleum.

people accept gold because it is sound not because it makes a great conductor

telling someone they are flat out wrong is just ignorance.


Pray tell, what is this magical property of gold that makes it intrinsically valuable?  Explain what you mean when you say that it is "sound."


--------------------

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: zorbman]
    #11432454 -

zorbman said:
Quote:
My example was fabricated


*GASP*


No surprise there, right?  All of us Fed-supporters just love to fabricate things

:highfive:



:ilold:

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: RonPaulVerm]
    #11433202 -

RonPaulVerm said:
When I talk about counterfeiting I actually mean it in a different way. The dollar is a currency (medium of exchange) that exists as paper. So the federal Reserve created  paper currency (Federal Reserve Notes) and DOES make it hard for other independent sources to replicate. However, they control how much of it is in circulation. So since it is paper they can just keep printing and printing and spending and spending......with gold (it's not magical, mushrooms are) you can't do that! You could go mine it! Which people did during the gold rush!


No offense:

You think gold miners should control the money supply? That would not be much better they could just manipulate production to suit their own interests.
So the Federal Reserve can influence the money supply. So what.

I think you should research the federal open market committee and how it works. Only a small fraction of the money supply is printed as paper money, almost all of it is created by banks issuing loans. So there is a limit. Quantitative easing is another story, but that also is limited by the demand for treasuries and their yield.


--------------------

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: ArmFromTheAbyss]
    #11434915 -

ArmFromTheAbyss said:
I think you should research the federal open market committee and how it works.


I also feel that he (and the rest of the shroomery/world) should learn about how the open market operations are carried out.  To help with that purpose, I attached key chapters from a very informative book to a thread here on the SHroomery called "Understanding Open Market Operations" here in MM. 

It got two responses.




I guess the shroomery just likes to complain about things being broken instead of learning about how they work and formulating ideas about how we might be able to fix them.

Here's the thread:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10033544#10033544

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: ArmFromTheAbyss]
    #11436644 -

meams said:
...money is the tool that purchases the goods that increase our standard of living.  And since the fundamental nature of mandkind is to act in his own self-interest, we operate accordingly.


Would say that someone with a refrigerator, a stove, a car, with health insurance, and air conditioning has a better "standard of living" than a person living minimally? I think the term standard of living is foolish. So subjective...
Some people need money to survive in this world. They need money to purhcase corporate goods. I pointed that out before.
Some don't need it at all. In order for there to be money there has to be a system.
You disregard growing food in order to show me a fabricated statement that supports monetary systems. However, I'm getting rid of monetary issues by getting rid of the whole money thing!

meams said:
These transactions generate tax revenues for the government, which helps to pay for various social programs that the gov't has instituted to help alleviate the suffering of the poorest of the poor.


And some of these social programs are terrible. They don't always help alleviate suffering. In fact, sometimes it's quite the opposite

Quote:
ArmFromTheAbyss said:
So the Federal Reserve can influence the money supply. So what.


:shocked:

Can you tell me what you know about fractional reserve banking and how it works?


--------------------
Spawn I Have: Blewitt, Reishi, Maitake, Chicken of the Woods, Parasol, Shaggy Mane, King, Blue and Gold Oyster, Shiitake, King Stropharia, Lions Mane, Almond Portabello, Elm Oyster, Phoenix Oyster, Nameko, Enoki, White Beech,

Spawn I Want: Corcyceps Sp., Cauliflower Mushrooms, Agaricus species (Portobello), Pink Oyster, Piopinno, ...anything else you might have


Primitive Skills                                     

Any information I've posted is only related to fictional purposes. I do not advocate growing any illegal mushrooms 
...I DO advocate learning about
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: RonPaulVerm]
    #11436721 -

Quote:
Would say that someone with a refrigerator, a stove, a car, with health insurance, and air conditioning has a better "standard of living" than a person living minimally?


Yes, without any doubt whatsoever.

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: Redstorm]
    #11436755 -

I accept that..as long as you know that is subjective.
I would say otherwise. And many more details would have to be added in order for me to decide.
However, it seems to be a given now because there are terms such as "standard of living."
If people don't have Campbell's soup they're going hungry. People will eat fruits from the tropics, but don't know the fruit that grows in their native area..it's just plain sad really. That's a lower standard of living if you ask me.


--------------------
Spawn I Have: Blewitt, Reishi, Maitake, Chicken of the Woods, Parasol, Shaggy Mane, King, Blue and Gold Oyster, Shiitake, King Stropharia, Lions Mane, Almond Portabello, Elm Oyster, Phoenix Oyster, Nameko, Enoki, White Beech,

Spawn I Want: Corcyceps Sp., Cauliflower Mushrooms, Agaricus species (Portobello), Pink Oyster, Piopinno, ...anything else you might have


Primitive Skills                                     

Any information I've posted is only related to fictional purposes. I do not advocate growing any illegal mushrooms 
...I DO advocate learning about
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: RonPaulVerm]
    #11437066 -

RonPaulVerm said:
Can you tell me what you know about fractional reserve banking and how it works?



Do I know how fractional reserve banking works? Good question, Ive spent the past 18 months obsessing about it. And I've heard the anti-Fed argument though and through. I used to be on your side until I began to dig deeper. It's a lot more complex than "printing money." Sound banking is fine, but we got rid of that for good when the regulators became deregulators. 

The whole fiat currency issue is completely misdirection. The problems with the banking system and the real economy are much deeper and complex. Everybody is talking about gold, not Citigroup's toxic off-balance sheet garbage loans.


--------------------

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Re: Glen Beck fomenting rebellion to sell Gold. [Re: ArmFromTheAbyss]
    #11437271 -

I know it's more complex than printing money...
So explain fractional reserve banking then.

[If the system is complex I would assess that the problems are going to be complicated..so I get that.]
But in order for something like citi-group to give out toxic loans there needs to be a way to create money..or really debt since it's money they don't have. So they loan out more money than they even possess, just like the Federal Reserve.

-What do you mean my side? What are we arguing over?

-I would still love to hear your obsessive findings and learnings of fractional reserve banking and why you think you know all there is to know about the Fed's banking. (not meant to sound snotty)

(I would assume people are talking about gold rather than toxic assets because it is a solution. Toxic assets are a problem.)


--------------------
Spawn I Have: Blewitt, Reishi, Maitake, Chicken of the Woods, Parasol, Shaggy Mane, King, Blue and Gold Oyster, Shiitake, King Stropharia, Lions Mane, Almond Portabello, Elm Oyster, Phoenix Oyster, Nameko, Enoki, White Beech,

Spawn I Want: Corcyceps Sp., Cauliflower Mushrooms, Agaricus species (Portobello), Pink Oyster, Piopinno, ...anything else you might have


Primitive Skills                                     

Any information I've posted is only related to fictional purposes. I do not advocate growing any illegal mushrooms 
...I DO advocate learning about
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

Edited by RonPaulVerm (11/11/09 09:32 PM)

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Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy

General Interest > Money Matters
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