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OfflinexFrockx
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Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT
    #11408789 - 11/08/09 02:11 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I guess for this thread to even mean anything you've got to make at least 2 assumptions,

1. I am not lying to you.
2. I am not lying to myself.

There's nothing I can say to dispell that, but its not going to stop me from typing what I want to type.

I stopped getting visuals from LSD last spring after taking it once a week for nearly an entire semester.  In this time I felt as if I nearly went insane, but what ended up happening was I developed the habit of arguing with myself, questioning my own beliefs to their breaking point.

Now I would say, if I needed to say anything, that I know nothing.  I have abandoned the idea that words have meaning in themselves in favor of seeing meaning from all the context in a given usage of language.  Meaning is what words show within the context of their use.  How ironic of me to be using them now, and how hypocritical.  But in order to pass on the point, or lack thereof, this is what I am forced to do.  See what sort of attitude I take with my own statements now?

Well, this week I had my first chance to try DMT.  I tried the standard eraser-sized dose yesterday.  No visuals at all, not even closed eyes.  All that happened was that I felt as if I was going to laugh and cry at the same time, but could do neither.

Tonight, I try roughly double that dose.  This time, I felt swept away, I couldn't even feel my own heart beating, but still, no visuals.

What does this mean?  I don't have even the slightest idea, and I think that could be part of the reason.  But thats a total contradiction, lol.

Words fail me, judge-on.


Edited by xFrockx (11/08/09 02:12 AM)


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OfflineOttoGenerated
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: xFrockx]
    #11408803 - 11/08/09 02:15 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

You say you argue with yourself. Do you argue about what you should or should not do?


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: OttoGenerated]
    #11408807 - 11/08/09 02:17 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Not really, I try to just do what comes naturally, and when I find myself believing in things, I step back and think about it.


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Offlinelaotzo
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: xFrockx]
    #11408808 - 11/08/09 02:17 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

i have never gotten any more visuals from any amount, and i mean 16 hits of solid blotter, or 14 grams of avg texas cowpatty psillycybin...than i do sober.

i mean i can get a tracer off of a cigarette in the dark sober as a deacon; same with 'cid or shrooms.

always just figured brain chemistry was different for everyone.

i sure love that tripping feelin.


just don;t see car bumpers melting.

maybe i never got the good shit. u know, that CIA stuff.


laotzo


--------------------
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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: xFrockx]
    #11408813 - 11/08/09 02:18 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

are you on an antidepressant??...these can neutralize 5HT2 agonists (which includes most psychedelics)...otherwise you prolly just need to wait longer between doses...


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OfflineLucas89
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: xFrockx]
    #11408825 - 11/08/09 02:21 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

i dont get visuals as strong as i used to either. i think you should just give psychedelics a break for a while before tripping again. thats what im going to do. take like 5,6  months off, maybe even a year.

that should bring back the magic.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: xFrockx]
    #11408838 - 11/08/09 02:25 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Here's my only idea about why I might not be having visuals.

Consider this picture of a duck (sorry for it being sideways):



Our observations are theory-laden, and depending on what context we are looking at things, pictures, words, even whole sentences can be seen as totally different, even though visually they are the same.

Did I trick you by labeling the above picture?  Giving it a context to be "seen as"?  Either way, notice now that it can also be seen as a rabbit.  Same lines, different meaning.

Now, what does this have to do with tripping?  Well, if hallucinogens bring our beliefs to the forefront, and make them strongly influence our observations, then the effects of heavily theory-laden observations could result in outright hallucinations, like in schizophrenics.

Now, I hold no beliefs.  The first thing that came to me when I smoked DMT last time was the word "WHY?" and afterwards, not even speculation followed because words fail.  I don't know that they fail, its just that they are only parts of a whole, not enough.

Why ask why?  Why ask why ask why?  Why ask why ask why ask why?

See how illusory these word games are?  Its just infinite regress, and if we take ourselves too seriously we may actually believe they "get us somewhere." 

I've never left where I am, no matter how hard I believed so.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11408841 - 11/08/09 02:27 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Its not a physical tolerance issue, if it is then my physiology is vastly different from the norm.  I don't trip often at all, the last time I had before I got the DMT was in the spring.

I'm not on any drugs other than weed and caffine either.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: Lucas89]
    #11408845 - 11/08/09 02:29 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, it was already about 5 months.


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InvisibleFlop Johnson
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: xFrockx]
    #11408861 - 11/08/09 02:34 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

.


Edited by Flop Johnson (08/01/11 12:32 AM)


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: Flop Johnson]
    #11409325 - 11/08/09 05:09 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I just don't believe people who say they get no visuals. I think it means that they need to take more, even if it seems to them like they are already taking heaps.

If the drug trully has no effect, it means that the brain has changed significantly? The receptors that are used by LSD and other psychedelics, however, all have natural uses. Thus - having massive tolerance to hallucinagens ought to mean that every day life is significantly affected too?


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Offlinealbien5
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11409464 - 11/08/09 06:28 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

You have to stop taking psychedelics for minimum 6 months even weed , i have past that stage its painful but it deserves it.
But if you have DMT smoke it all before you stop put 80mgs at the vaporizer and maybe you will relief the problem, is the most powerful psychedelic on planet. If that doesnt work you have to stop. You are deep hypnotized by psychedelics Or maybe you are grow a lot so the story is not longer a Fairytale.
Give them a break men it helps a lot to understand the truth


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: albien5]
    #11409479 - 11/08/09 06:35 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

This obsession with words/meaning isn't healthy dude. If I remember correctly it means your brain is rather close to psychosis. However I have been in this same state (although hallucinogens always have given me visuals) and I didn't see anything wrong with it at the time. Looking back on it however I guess I was slightly loopy but the obsession with meanings is a side effect of that state of mind, not what makes you loopy itself.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: crkhd]
    #11409514 - 11/08/09 07:03 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

crkhd said:
This obsession with words/meaning isn't healthy dude. If I remember correctly it means your brain is rather close to psychosis.




Yep, it's a dangerous state of mind to be in. There are lessons to be learned from it, usually painful ones. I wouldn't recommend it though.


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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: crkhd]
    #11409526 - 11/08/09 07:11 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

crkhd said:
This obsession with words/meaning isn't healthy dude. If I remember correctly it means your brain is rather close to psychosis. However I have been in this same state (although hallucinogens always have given me visuals) and I didn't see anything wrong with it at the time. Looking back on it however I guess I was slightly loopy but the obsession with meanings is a side effect of that state of mind, not what makes you loopy itself.





Where did you read that obsession with communication/words/meaning is on the road to psychosis, let alone close?
I've never heard of this before, and I have a rather noticeable obsession with communication/meaning. Not that I think about it all day. But I believe communication is one of the fundamental tools in life, and understanding how we can communicate our thoughts and concepts better will vastly improve our way of life.


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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: Snurry]
    #11409534 - 11/08/09 07:14 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

In his defence ive suffered from psychosis and this obsession with words and meaning and second guessing yourself was one of its main features every time. Not to say that having a healthy interest in these things is bad, its when it takes over your life and you can't just chill it gets bad. It can even threaten your identity because so many layers of introversion get created.


Edited by DimensionX (11/08/09 07:15 AM)


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OfflineSnurry
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: DimensionX]
    #11409539 - 11/08/09 07:18 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Yea I guess the meaning of obsession can be different for others.
It definitely doesn't take over the majority of my thoughts.


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: Snurry]
    #11409585 - 11/08/09 07:44 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah I also have a bit of a meaning obsession but I consider it a healthy area of philosophy to be dealing with... I think that words do not encapsulate meaning, but are used in language to invoke certain thoughts when arranged in different ways. The meaning of a word comes from the words around it. And so language can get tied up in lots of knots when trippin because one can try to isolate words or phrases and try to analyse them but the meaning of the word came from all the context, and surrounding words, and the way it was used, etc, all of this information that you arent paying much attention to when focused so much on the individual symbols.
But language still has tangible meaning, methinks, as long as a person is still 'tuned in' to their society. This way they know the relative relevance of things more easily. So if the word obsession is getting really difficult, then perhaps it might be a sign that you need to clear your head. By difficult, I mean, a struggle, with little clarity and dispair when certain tennants of behavior fail to make sense.


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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11409613 - 11/08/09 07:57 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

sounds like you're hitting the deep end brother.

around nov-06 to may-08 i was doing a lot of dmt. started out as weekly, then daily, then at my worst 3 or 4 times a night.

i began locking myself in my closet to get complete sensory dep and it drove me insane.

i never lost the visuals, even with hundreds if not thousands of dmt experiences, so i call bullshit on that, you're either schizo or you're not smoking dmt.

i don't have a lot of experience with lsd though, so dunno what to say about that. but i've been there man, the deep end is a hard road to take and even harder to find your way back.

you're never going to come all the way back but it's important that you try. if you need to talk about it on a deeper level feel free to PM me, man.

this sounds serious.


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OfflineSnurry
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Re: Hallucinogens no longer give me visuals, even smoked DMT [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11409732 - 11/08/09 08:48 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
So if the word obsession is getting really difficult, then perhaps it might be a sign that you need to clear your head. By difficult, I mean, a struggle, with little clarity and dispair when certain tennants of behavior fail to make sense.





Easier said then done. It's not just a flick of a switch to clear your head. Especially with thought habits firmly grounded.

It seems like a lot more people than the OP have the same condition, even if quite a bit milder.

I found social isolation and being stoned 24/7 lead to a completely different thought patterns. When these thoughts were at their strongest, I found even understanding experience near impossible. It was like the more I understood, the more I realised how little I understood. To the point where I would question if there is something other than experience. I found more often than not that I couldn't make sense of the external world.

Once I started to see it seeking answers to these thoughts was causing more harm then good, I stopped my everyday all-day pot habit (was hell in itself) and started making a conscious effort to change my thought patterns.

Slowly over the course of a year I have managed to make improvements instead of going 'further down the hole'. I feel as if I've found a different way of thinking, but it's far from what I want. I don't feel constantly under mental anguish; and nearly once a day I'll snap into mental comfort, though it doesn't last more than a few seconds.

I can't see the end of it, but I know if I stop making a constant effort I'll relapse. Otherwise thoughts like "no matter how much effort you put in you'll feel relaxed and comfortable without intoxicants" will come back and it's just downhill from there. I always have to remind myself that now is better than what was.

Ironically enough I've found a healthy balance a pot very therapeutic, and immensely helpful. Enough to help stop the thoughts and feelings when they need to be, but not enough to keep them constantly diminished.


Best of luck to the OP and anyone else stuck in those thought patterns and find dealing with life itself increasingly difficult. This is the best advice I have.

For me it the thoughts started as a yearning to know truth. I thought to hide myself from certain truths was to be lying to myself. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But there are some things we have to protect our mind from for the sake of ourselves.


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