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InvisibleSilversoul
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The Individual
    #11404288 - 11/07/09 01:48 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

An individual does not exist apart from their environment.

An individual does not exist apart from their social relations.

An individual does not exist apart from their genome.

Everything that makes an individual unique is the unique relationships they have to other things.  The uniqueness of your personality is a result of the genes they've inherited, the environment they grew up in, the people they've met, and the books they've read.  The individual is social in nature.  Our identity is not something wrapped in skin.  It is the intricate web of relations that come from being-in-the-world.  Over the chorus of millions of drones each shouting in unison "I am an individual," those who seek authentic individuality are those who look to expand their web of relations by experiencing new things and seeking out new perspectives, which they can assimilate into a unique worldview.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: The Individual [Re: Silversoul]
    #11404311 - 11/07/09 01:50 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

i would agree with all of that


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Individual [Re: Silversoul]
    #11404353 - 11/07/09 01:54 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I agree also.:whoa: Is this part of your campaign to be mod?:tongue2:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The Individual [Re: Icelander]
    #11404361 - 11/07/09 01:55 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I agree also.:whoa: Is this part of your campaign to be mod?:tongue2:


Change we can believe in! :obamadre:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Individual [Re: Poid]
    #11404382 - 11/07/09 01:57 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

:rofl2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinedeff
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Re: The Individual [Re: Icelander]
    #11404487 - 11/07/09 02:10 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I agree also.:whoa: Is this part of your campaign to be mod?:tongue2:




works for me :grin:




...ahem...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Individual [Re: deff]
    #11404674 - 11/07/09 02:41 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

tacky.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: The Individual [Re: Silversoul]
    #11404681 - 11/07/09 02:42 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
An individual does not exist apart from their environment.

An individual does not exist apart from their social relations.

An individual does not exist apart from their genome.

Our identity is not something wrapped in skin. 




Well in the typical sense of how we are defined/define ourselves yes. But I would still say a being has an identity bodily, as a thing among the world. But yes some beings have social identies which are much more complex. But I guess I just found it problematic the way you put that, obviously the body tends to itself and in that sense it is a system which has an identity (inasmuch as it does certain things).

Quote:

It is the intricate web of relations that come from being-in-the-world.




^ I am assuming that is more what you meant to say, I guess you could have just been more clear in the OP.


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Jesus loves you.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: The Individual [Re: Icelander]
    #11404694 - 11/07/09 02:43 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
tacky.




someone's just jealous that they didn't get any fan signs made of them :tongue:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Individual [Re: andrewss]
    #11404710 - 11/07/09 02:46 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

andrewss said:
Well in the typical sense of how we are defined/define ourselves yes. But I would still say a being has an identity bodily, as a thing among the world. But yes some beings have social identies which are much more complex. But I guess I just found it problematic the way you put that, obviously the body tends to itself and in that sense it is a system which has an identity (inasmuch as it does certain things).



But the body itself is an open system.  It takes in food and excretes waste.  It takes in oxygen and gives off carbon dioxide.  The cell division which keeps your body alive and healthy cannot happen apart from the nutrients taken from the environment.  Your body will be different if you eat junk food than if you eat healthy food.  It will be different if you become addicted to drugs.  It will be different if you breathe smog than if you breathe clean air.  So even in a bodily sense, we do not exist apart from our environment and our social relations.  Your body is dependent upon the food you eat and the air you breathe, and these things are all dependent upon social relations as well.


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Edited by Silversoul (11/07/09 02:52 PM)


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The Individual [Re: Silversoul]
    #11405225 - 11/07/09 04:09 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
So even in a bodily sense, we do not exist apart from our environment...


True.



Quote:

Silversoul said:
...and our social relations.


What if you don't even have any social relations?



Quote:

Silversoul said:
Your body is dependent upon the food you eat and the air you breathe, and these things are all dependent upon social relations as well.


You forgot water. And not necessarily.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinenootropic
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Re: The Individual [Re: Poid]
    #11405766 - 11/07/09 05:39 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
...and our social relations.


What if you don't even have any social relations?





then that'd be a feature of that individual.

edit: oops. i need to read better next time..
edit2: nvm.


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[quote]Oweyervishice said:
[quote]Icelander said:
What is at the bottom of it?[/quote]

Death anxiety? :flirt:[/quote]


Edited by nootropic (11/07/09 05:42 PM)


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The Individual [Re: nootropic]
    #11405980 - 11/07/09 06:13 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

:haha:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Invisibletrip forever
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Re: The Individual [Re: Poid]
    #11406777 - 11/07/09 08:13 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I would also agree with that.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The Individual [Re: trip forever]
    #11417461 - 11/09/09 11:15 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

With what? :confused:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: The Individual [Re: Silversoul]
    #11417607 - 11/09/09 11:51 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
...
those who seek authentic individuality are those who look to expand their web of relations by experiencing new things and seeking out new perspectives, which they can assimilate into a unique worldview.




Oh, yes, but there's no word for doing those things or the results of those things, so they can't be true state. How about we find a word for all them all, like individualism, but not exactly the same, so we can make sure everyone who does things different is exactly like everyone else.


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Re: The Individual [Re: Silversoul]
    #11433349 - 11/11/09 03:40 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I really like this post, but it seems a little restricted. Does this view exclude the possibility that individualism is simultaneous with ultimate unity? Is it possible the web is so connected that there really are no beginnings or ends, or true individuals?

I imagine "individuals" as totally separate entities, but maybe you are using it in the context of our perceived individuality? If so, it would seem that our collective experience is exactly what makes us "who we are". What a fun question to ask.

Do we have an essential nature, or are we just those observable, quantifiable bits of data?

:strokebeard:


--------------------
:bliss:

It's the same thing.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Individual [Re: yelyarb]
    #11433487 - 11/11/09 03:58 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

yelyarb said:
I really like this post, but it seems a little restricted. Does this view exclude the possibility that individualism is simultaneous with ultimate unity? Is it possible the web is so connected that there really are no beginnings or ends, or true individuals?

I imagine "individuals" as totally separate entities, but maybe you are using it in the context of our perceived individuality? If so, it would seem that our collective experience is exactly what makes us "who we are". What a fun question to ask.

Do we have an essential nature, or are we just those observable, quantifiable bits of data?

:strokebeard:



I'm not denying that the individual exists.  I'm just saying that the individual only exists in relation to other entities.  Everything about us that defines us arises in relation to other entities.  We are not ontologically separate Cartesian subjects.  Rather, we are processes.  We are a dynamic structure that constantly rearranges information in a coherent way.


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: The Individual [Re: Silversoul]
    #11434431 - 11/11/09 06:06 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
An individual does not exist apart from their environment.

An individual does not exist apart from their social relations.

An individual does not exist apart from their genome.

Everything that makes an individual unique is the unique relationships they have to other things.  The uniqueness of your personality is a result of the genes they've inherited, the environment they grew up in, the people they've met, and the books they've read.  The individual is social in nature.  Our identity is not something wrapped in skin.  It is the intricate web of relations that come from being-in-the-world.  Over the chorus of millions of drones each shouting in unison "I am an individual," those who seek authentic individuality are those who look to expand their web of relations by experiencing new things and seeking out new perspectives, which they can assimilate into a unique worldview.




What your post prooves, is that there is no such thing as an individual and that striving to maintain a self image of individuality is completely neurotic

A new born baby has no individuality, they are fully part of the environment, fresh & present
An oldman has sustained imaginary individuality, he is living in the past & fearful of future

Who is more neurotic?
The new born baby?
Or the 'individual' old man?

As individuality 'mememe' growns, so does neurosis


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Individual [Re: Chronic7]
    #11434453 - 11/11/09 06:09 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
An individual does not exist apart from their environment.

An individual does not exist apart from their social relations.

An individual does not exist apart from their genome.

Everything that makes an individual unique is the unique relationships they have to other things.  The uniqueness of your personality is a result of the genes they've inherited, the environment they grew up in, the people they've met, and the books they've read.  The individual is social in nature.  Our identity is not something wrapped in skin.  It is the intricate web of relations that come from being-in-the-world.  Over the chorus of millions of drones each shouting in unison "I am an individual," those who seek authentic individuality are those who look to expand their web of relations by experiencing new things and seeking out new perspectives, which they can assimilate into a unique worldview.




What your post prooves, is that there is no such thing as an individual and that striving to maintain a self image of individuality is completely neurotic



Well, there are collectivists who want to say that only the collective exists and that the individual is just an abstraction from that.  Then there are individualists who say that only the individual exists, and the collective is an abstraction.  What I would say is that both are equally real, but only exist in relation to one another.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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