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 Life Upon Death
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 Re: Question for all the Christians around here  [Re: Life Upon Death]
#11406855 - 11/07/09 06:25 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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the next logical step in the Calvinist arsenal is to try and claim that the foreknowledge doesn't actually mean foreknowledge
lets see if he trys to use this tactic(best golf announcer voice)
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: fivepointer]
#11406859 - 11/07/09 06:25 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said:
You still didn't address my questions, why can't you address them? They are plain questions, just give an answer in your own words. It is like pulling teeth.
I addressed your questions
but your playing the distraction game now which is also common amongst your brethren
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 Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: Mr. Mushroom]
#11406864 - 11/07/09 06:26 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Nice name. 
--------------------
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: Life Upon Death]
#11406882 - 11/07/09 06:29 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
fivepointer said:
You still didn't address my questions, why can't you address them? They are plain questions, just give an answer in your own words. It is like pulling teeth.
I addressed your questions
but your playing the distraction game now which is also common amongst your brethren
Your the one being evasive. You didn't answer my questions at all.
So if God wants every single person in the world to be saved how do you explain the fact that millions of people in history have lived and died and were never exposed to any gospel ever? God can see the beginning to the end, and yet did not change the scheme of salvation so that everyone get a equal chance.
In the OT the nation of Israel was told not to deal with the other nations at all. All those nations were shut off from the gospel and had no chance of salvation.
Also many times the scripture talks about predestination. Why would this term be used? Merely to show God can see through the tunnel of time? No way, this is not what is being said at all.
Many verses also show some are ordained to life while others are fitted to destruction. How do you explain away these verses?
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Life Upon Death
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: fivepointer]
#11406887 - 11/07/09 06:30 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
fivepointer said:
You still didn't address my questions, why can't you address them? They are plain questions, just give an answer in your own words. It is like pulling teeth.
I addressed your questions
but your playing the distraction game now which is also common amongst your brethren
Your the one being evasive. You didn't answer my questions at all.
So if God wants every single person in the world to be saved how do you explain the fact that millions of people in history have lived and died and were never exposed to any gospel ever? God can see the beginning to the end, and yet did not change the scheme of salvation so that everyone get a equal chance.
In the OT the nation of Israel was told not to deal with the other nations at all. All those nations were shut off from the gospel and had no chance of salvation.
Also many times the scripture talks about predestination. Why would this term be used? Merely to show God can see through the tunnel of time? No way, this is not what is being said at all.
Many verses also show some are ordained to life while others are fitted to destruction. How do you explain away these verses?
I showed you a verse which says that those who are not of the law do the works of the law they are a law unto themselves because of their heart
I then showed you that "being chosen" is according to foreknowledge
with the scriptures
what more do you want?
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: Life Upon Death]
#11406942 - 11/07/09 06:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
fivepointer said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
Quote:
fivepointer said:
You still didn't address my questions, why can't you address them? They are plain questions, just give an answer in your own words. It is like pulling teeth.
I addressed your questions
but your playing the distraction game now which is also common amongst your brethren
Your the one being evasive. You didn't answer my questions at all.
So if God wants every single person in the world to be saved how do you explain the fact that millions of people in history have lived and died and were never exposed to any gospel ever? God can see the beginning to the end, and yet did not change the scheme of salvation so that everyone get a equal chance.
In the OT the nation of Israel was told not to deal with the other nations at all. All those nations were shut off from the gospel and had no chance of salvation.
Also many times the scripture talks about predestination. Why would this term be used? Merely to show God can see through the tunnel of time? No way, this is not what is being said at all.
Many verses also show some are ordained to life while others are fitted to destruction. How do you explain away these verses?
I showed you a verse which says that those who are not of the law do the works of the law they are a law unto themselves because of their heart
I then showed you that "being chosen" is according to foreknowledge
with the scriptures
what more do you want?
So those who never heard any gospel ever can be saved without any gospel since they kept the law in their heart? No one is justified by works of the law (Gal 2:16), law is knowledge of sin and can never justify (Rom 3:20).
Your tunnel of time explanation simply can not be and makes no sense in context. The elect are chosen from before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1), and therefore before any acts. I could go on with many more verses on election and predestination.
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: fivepointer]
#11407025 - 11/07/09 06:54 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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let me post another little gem from Apocrypha:
"the epistle of the Apostles":
37 Then said we unto him: Lord, teach us what shall come to pass thereafter? And he answered us: In those years and days shall war be kindled upon war; the four ends of the earth shall be in commotion and fight against each other. Thereafter shall be quakings of clouds (or, clouds of locusts), darkness, and dearth, and persecutions of them that believe on me and against the elect. Thereupon shall come doubt and strife and transgressions against one another. And there shall be many that believe on my name and yet follow after evil and spread vain doctrine. And men shall follow after them and their riches, and be subject unto their pride, and lust for drink, and bribery, and there shall be respect of persons among them.
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: Life Upon Death]
#11407051 - 11/07/09 06:56 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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and some info about your daddy, John Calvin:
Michael Servetus was a Christian living in the 1500's who incurred the wrath of John Calvin and was murdered by him and his cronies for illegitimate reasons. He was accused of heresy and railroaded through a mock trial and put to death being burned alive at the stake. Yet such an atrocity was praised by even well-known Calvinists as Bullinger and others for generations.
A couple of quotes from John Calvin himself:
7 years before the incident:
"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight."
Written by John Calvin in a letter to Farel Feb. 13, 1546
During the incident
Again Calvin writes Farel in a letter dated Aug 20th 1553 where he has Servetus arrested.
"We have now new business in hand with Servetus. He intended perhaps passing through this city; for it is not yet known with what design he came. But after he had been recognized, I thought that he should be detained. My friend Nicolas summoned him on a capital charge. ... I hope that sentence of death will at least be passed upon him"
very godly man lol
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: Life Upon Death]
#11407186 - 11/07/09 07:19 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
let me post another little gem from Apocrypha:
"the epistle of the Apostles":
37 Then said we unto him: Lord, teach us what shall come to pass thereafter? And he answered us: In those years and days shall war be kindled upon war; the four ends of the earth shall be in commotion and fight against each other. Thereafter shall be quakings of clouds (or, clouds of locusts), darkness, and dearth, and persecutions of them that believe on me and against the elect. Thereupon shall come doubt and strife and transgressions against one another. And there shall be many that believe on my name and yet follow after evil and spread vain doctrine. And men shall follow after them and their riches, and be subject unto their pride, and lust for drink, and bribery, and there shall be respect of persons among them.
This is not scripture. Please stick to the Word of God.
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fivepointer
newbie
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: Life Upon Death]
#11407203 - 11/07/09 07:23 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
and some info about your daddy, John Calvin:
Michael Servetus was a Christian living in the 1500's who incurred the wrath of John Calvin and was murdered by him and his cronies for illegitimate reasons. He was accused of heresy and railroaded through a mock trial and put to death being burned alive at the stake. Yet such an atrocity was praised by even well-known Calvinists as Bullinger and others for generations.
A couple of quotes from John Calvin himself:
7 years before the incident:
"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight."
Written by John Calvin in a letter to Farel Feb. 13, 1546
During the incident
Again Calvin writes Farel in a letter dated Aug 20th 1553 where he has Servetus arrested.
"We have now new business in hand with Servetus. He intended perhaps passing through this city; for it is not yet known with what design he came. But after he had been recognized, I thought that he should be detained. My friend Nicolas summoned him on a capital charge. ... I hope that sentence of death will at least be passed upon him"
very godly man lol
I don't know about a particular man. Why do you continue to swerve away from the topic at hand? Make your case FROM THE SCRIPTURE. You are very evasive. Someone who has no case uses these tactics.
You are adding books to the Bible that are not part of the Bible.
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: fivepointer]
#11407224 - 11/07/09 07:26 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said:
Quote:
Life Upon Death said:
and some info about your daddy, John Calvin:
Michael Servetus was a Christian living in the 1500's who incurred the wrath of John Calvin and was murdered by him and his cronies for illegitimate reasons. He was accused of heresy and railroaded through a mock trial and put to death being burned alive at the stake. Yet such an atrocity was praised by even well-known Calvinists as Bullinger and others for generations.
A couple of quotes from John Calvin himself:
7 years before the incident:
"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight."
Written by John Calvin in a letter to Farel Feb. 13, 1546
During the incident
Again Calvin writes Farel in a letter dated Aug 20th 1553 where he has Servetus arrested.
"We have now new business in hand with Servetus. He intended perhaps passing through this city; for it is not yet known with what design he came. But after he had been recognized, I thought that he should be detained. My friend Nicolas summoned him on a capital charge. ... I hope that sentence of death will at least be passed upon him"
very godly man lol
I don't know about a particular man. Why do you continue to swerve away from the topic at hand? Make your case FROM THE SCRIPTURE. You are very evasive. Someone who has no case uses these tactics.
You are adding books to the Bible that are not part of the Bible.
this is the man who first proposed the the doctrine you adhere too
Calvinist's also love to try and claim you are doing exactly what they are in fact doing
you are the most annoying people I have ever debated with hands down
its all one big game of run around
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fivepointer
newbie
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: fivepointer]
#11407290 - 11/07/09 07:35 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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You keep bringing up theologians not me. You are the one making it a run around not me.
Take your works salvation back to Rome where it belongs.
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: fivepointer]
#11407294 - 11/07/09 07:36 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Romans 2:
14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do (Y)instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15in that they show (Z)the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16on the day when, (AA)according to my gospel, (AB)God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
what this is saying is that when those who are not exposed to the gospel and yet do the things of the gospel and have the heart of the gospel they are of Christ whether they have read the bible or not
Ephesians 1:
4just as (K)He chose us in Him before (L)the foundation of the world, that we would be (M)holy and blameless before Him (N)In love
5He (O)predestined us to (P)adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, (Q)according to the kind intention of His will
now when put into the context of Romans 8 which tells us:
28And we know that [c]God causes (BG)all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are (BH)called according to His purpose.
29For those whom He (BI)foreknew, He also (BJ)predestined to become (BK)conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the (BL)firstborn among many brethren;
30and these whom He (BM)predestined, He also (BN)called; and these whom He called, He also (BO)justified; and these whom He justified, He also (BP)glorified.
31(BQ)What then shall we say to these things? (BR)If God is for us, who is against us?
this shows that predestination and everything that entails stems from foreknowledge
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Life Upon Death
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: Life Upon Death]
#11407319 - 11/07/09 07:40 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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do you believe that you existed before the foundation of the world?
cause if you don't then the only way God knew you before is through foreknowledge of your current existence
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
Registered: 10/25/09
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: Life Upon Death]
#11407330 - 11/07/09 07:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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oh and lets try actually posting the scripture instead of your opinions with a little reference to scripture
this gives this illusion of authority over the verse without actually putting it out there to be analyzed
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fivepointer
newbie
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: fivepointer]
#11407346 - 11/07/09 07:43 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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So salvation is by works of the law for those outside of the gospel being preached? Are you saying those outside the gospel can be saved without any gospel being heard, simply by acting according to their heart?
God foreknew in the sense of loved those elect vessels, whom He chose, from before the foundation of the world.
The tunnel of time theory is absurd. Why say so many things about election, choosing, predestinating, just to make the case that God can see the beginning to the end?
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Knobby Tops
Psychonaut
Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 227
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: fivepointer]
#11407362 - 11/07/09 07:45 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Because all religions are stupid and idiotic and only morons believe in an all powerful, all knowing, invisible man!
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giza
Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: Knobby Tops]
#11407380 - 11/07/09 07:48 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Maybe he did forgive satan, because for some reason god gave him power over hell, that's a great position
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: fivepointer]
#11407383 - 11/07/09 07:48 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said:
So salvation is by works of the law for those outside of the gospel being preached? Are you saying those outside the gospel can be saved without any gospel being heard, simply by acting according to their heart?
God foreknew in the sense of loved those elect vessels, whom He chose, from before the foundation of the world.
The tunnel of time theory is absurd. Why say so many things about election, choosing, predestinating, just to make the case that God can see the beginning to the end?
no salvation is through acceptance of the sacrifice of His Son and yes those who do not hear the gospel and yet have the a heart in sync with it are of Christ, of course the fact that they have this heart will almost assuredly lead them to the proper information
very simple
you are dodging my point about the fact that predestination and election is based on foreknowledge
we also see evidence in Proverbs 1 that God calls everyone:
20(AB)Wisdom shouts in the street,
She lifts her voice in the square;
21At the head of the noisy streets she cries out;
At the entrance of the gates in the city she utters her sayings:
22"How long, O (AC)naive ones, will you love being simple-minded?
And (AD)scoffers delight themselves in scoffing
And fools (AE)hate knowledge?
23"Turn to my reproof,
Behold, I will (AF)pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.
24"Because (AG)I called and you (AH)refused,
I (AI)stretched out my hand and no one paid attention;
25And you (AJ)neglected all my counsel
And did not (AK)want my reproof;
26I will also (AL)laugh at your (AM)calamity;
I will mock when your (AN)dread comes,
27When your dread comes like a storm
And your calamity comes like a (AO)whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
28"Then they will (AP)call on me, but I will not answer;
They will (AQ)seek me diligently but they will not find me,
29Because they (AR)hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD.
30"They (AS)would not accept my counsel,
They spurned all my reproof.
31"So they shall (AT)eat of the fruit of their own way
And be (AU)satiated with their own devices.
32"For the (AV)waywardness of the naive will kill them,
And the complacency of fools will destroy them.
33"But (AW)he who listens to me shall live securely
And will be at ease from the dread of evil."
and...
John 12:
32"And I, if I (AU)am lifted up from the earth, will (AV)draw all men to Myself."
but of course you will claim all men doesn't actually mean all men lol
God is reaching out to EVERYONE but its up to them to respond to that
plain and simple
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Life Upon Death
Stranger
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Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: Question for all the Christians around here [Re: giza]
#11407390 - 11/07/09 07:49 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
giza said:
Maybe he did forgive satan, because for some reason god gave him power over hell, that's a great position
he doesn't have power over hell
hes destined to burn there
true hell(the lake of fire) hasn't even come to fruition yet
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