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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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James Arthur Ray - The Prequel
    #11403217 - 11/07/09 11:09 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

New York Post

Mystic's past is Guru-some

Injury, suicide at seminars
By JEANE MacINTOSH

Even before a sweat-lodge retreat led by guru James Arthur Ray claimed its third victim over the weekend, his seminars were already tainted by serious injury and even suicide, The Post has learned.

Ray -- billed as a motivational prophet in the flick "The Secret" and touted by Oprah -- is at the center of a murder probe after two people, including Kirby Brown, a 38-year-old upstate woman, died at an Oct. 8 "sweat-lodge" event he led near Sedona, Ariz.
           
A third victim, Liz Neuman, 49, from Minnesota, died Saturday from injuries sustained at the event, and her family plans to sue.
           
Ray's past seminars are also peppered with horrific incidents, public records show, including:
           
* The July 2009 suicide of a Minnesota woman who jumped three floors to her death from a San Diego mall balcony.
           
* A May 2005 event at Disney World, where a New Jersey woman shattered her hand after Ray allegedly bullied her into performing a ritualistic board-breaking exercise.
           
On July 25, just 10 weeks before the sweat-lodge deaths, Colleen Conaway, a typically cheerful 46-year-old from Minnesota, made her fatal plunge at the California mall.
           
Like the victims in Arizona, Conaway had no identification on her when she died, according to law enforcement.
           
After the jump, Ray and his staffers left the mall knowing that Conaway was missing from the group, according to authorities.
           
"I had just talked to her two days before, and she was still the sister I knew," said Lynn.
           
"I can't even comprehend what changed, what went on in those two days that would cause her to do this."
         
In the Disney World incident, a 2005 negligence lawsuit charged a "reckless" Ray pushed seminar attendee Diane Konopka to smash the board to "overcome . . . self-esteem issues."
           
Repeatedly unsuccessful, the "humiliated" and "extremely exhausted" Konopka felt "she had no choice" but to do what Ray demanded, the suit says.
           
The guru settled in 2007 for an undisclosed sum.
           
After the sweat-lodge tragedy, Ray quickly left town and has declined to be interviewed by police.
           
A spokesman for Ray declined comment.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11403255 - 11/07/09 11:17 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Liz Neuman - thrid sweat lodge victim dies.



Would you do this MILPH? (Mothers I'd Like to Heat Prostrate)


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InvisibleBand of Gypsys
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11403256 - 11/07/09 11:18 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Early life

James Earl Ray came from a poor family in Alton, Illinois, and left school at age 15. He joined the US Army during World War II and served in Germany. In 1949, he was convicted of his first crime, a burglary in California.

In 1952 he served two years for armed robbery of a taxi driver in Illinois. In 1955, he was convicted of mail fraud. After an armed robbery in Missouri in 1959, Ray was sentenced to 20 years as a habitual offender. In 1967, he escaped by hiding in a truck transporting bread from the prison bakery.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11403283 - 11/07/09 11:23 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

When did he change his middle name?


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InvisibleBand of Gypsys
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11403291 - 11/07/09 11:24 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

He is erasing his past.


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InvisibleBand of Gypsys
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11403311 - 11/07/09 11:27 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

James Ray (1941—c. 1964) was an African-American R&B singer of the early 1960s best known for his lone Top 40 hit, "If You Gotta Make a Fool of Somebody," in 1962.


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InvisibleBand of Gypsys
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11403314 - 11/07/09 11:28 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

* James Arthur Ray, professional speaker and author
    * James B. Ray (1794-1848), governor of Indiana
    * James Earl Ray (1928-1998), assassin of Martin Luther King Jr.
    * James Edwin Ray (1941-), U.S. Air Force fighter pilot and Vietnam-era Prisoner of War
    * James Ray (rock musician), a founding member of James Ray And The Performance, James Ray's Gangwar, The MK Ultra, and his current band 4080peru
    * James Ray (singer), singer from the early 60s
    * James Ray (basketball), professional basketball player
    * James Ray (historian), English historian
    * Jim Ray, baseball player
    * Jimmy Ray, English musician


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S o m e  T e x t


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11404398 - 11/07/09 01:59 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Liz Neuman - thrid sweat lodge victim dies.



Would you do this MILPH? (Mothers I'd Like to Heat Prostrate)


Yes! :lol:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: Poid]
    #11404506 - 11/07/09 02:13 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Youre slandering him!!!!!

:lol:


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OfflineJasonVira
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: Poid]
    #11404610 - 11/07/09 02:30 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

This is the perfect forum to share this story. It goes something like this:

A number of years ago a young girl, somewhere in Amsterdam, took magic mushrooms and committed suicide. The Amsterdam government went ballistic and outlawed magic mushrooms. That incident went around the world and there was a crackdown in America. Places providing magic mushroom supplies were raided and shutdown.

Well then, what about all the people who drink alcohol and commit suicide? Don’t they count? Why isn’t liquor outlawed?

Is this incident fair to all those who have had positive experiences using magic mushrooms? NO IT IS NOT!

In my second near-death experience I committed suicide by taking poison. I know what it is to be in a suicidal state of mind no matter how much positive talk may be going around. It happens. James Arthur Ray is doing his best to help people who REALLY want to be helped. Some, obviously, DESPERATELY need that help.

How many people go to psychiatrists, take the drugs prescribed and then commit suicide, eh? How about you people do a research on that and see what you come up with. Were those people going to James Arthur Ray seminars, who committed suicide, going to shrinks and taking prescribed medication that made them suicidal? I don’t know AND NEITHER DO YOU! I know this much: I have seen too many psyche drug commercials that state side effects to anti-depressant drugs may make a person suicidal. That’s for sure!

I am an advanced martial artist and I used to break boards until I felt guilty throwing the wood away and so I stopped. One woman shattered her hand trying to break a board at a James Arthur Ray seminar. What about all the people who successfully broke those boards. You don’t care AT ALL about their victory, right?

Yes James Arthur Ray is a man with his flaws. I can understand that he wanted to pray and get some answers about this matter before going public with it. He didn’t know what happened and why and he was not in the proper state of mind to deal with the matter at the time and be publicly interviewed. Do you think YOU WOULD BE in such a situation? He was probably following the instructions of his lawyer when he declined to be interviewed and left. If YOUR lawyer tells you to do something, when you are in a fragile state of mind, chances are you will do it, right?

I’m done with this matter. Nothing I say will convince you people so believe whatever you like. The teachings of James Arthur Ray contained in The Secret have helped me tremendously. If they have not helped you how is that my problem?

I am building upon what I have learned from James Arthur Ray and I will have greater and greater success. That is my Intent and that is what will be whether YOU people like it or believe it or not.



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: JasonVira]
    #11404645 - 11/07/09 02:36 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Nothing I say will convince you people so believe whatever you like.

That's not true even if you want to lump me in with "YOU" people.

Actually you make some good points and I think that your post is a good one. Whatever his personal motives some of what he is selling is valuable shit. It's up to people to be able to use it. Some folk are so unhealthy/unskillful that they will create chaos in their life no matter where they are. He's not responsible for them. If I wasn't sure I could break that board then nothing he could say would make me try and if I did the outcome would not be his fault.

I really don't know much about this guy fortunately. I do my own research and make my own way but that's not to say some people can't take advantage of what he provides. :shrug:

Let's face it, in one way or another we are all selling something.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/07/09 02:39 PM)


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OfflineJasonVira
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: JasonVira]
    #11404708 - 11/07/09 02:46 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

OC is 'selling' cynical skepticism. I'm not buying. Are you?


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: Icelander]
    #11404720 - 11/07/09 02:47 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Yeah thats not a bad post, albeit a bit over dramatic... one cannot victimze the people that did those things. Though the sweat lodge stuff ups the ante even more considering its complexity.

Jason I think the big mistake is you seem to make things very personal on this board, I think thats a big misunderstanding! We are not concerning ourselves with (at least I assume that for other posters) your experiences with his teachings or whatever, dont get that all mixed in with the posts.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: JasonVira]
    #11404722 - 11/07/09 02:48 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

i'm selling necklaces ... pm me for details


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: deff]
    #11404841 - 11/07/09 03:10 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

:fishing:

aw, caught one!


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: JasonVira]
    #11405236 - 11/07/09 04:11 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

JasonVira said:
OC is 'selling' cynical skepticism. I'm not buying. Are you?


Why are you talking to yourself on a public forum? :cuckoo:


Learn to use the 'Quick Reply' feature! :crankey:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: Poid]
    #11405621 - 11/07/09 05:16 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Just remember (using JV 'logic') the captain of The Titantic was not responsible for the lives of his passengers. They were uncoerced adults who knew there was some risk, so fuck 'em!

Case closed.


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OfflineJasonVira
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: deranger]
    #11405635 - 11/07/09 05:18 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

With his cynical, skeptical attitude OC will most probably die friendless and alone


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11405660 - 11/07/09 05:22 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Things are so black and white for Swami. :lol:

If only it were so. The case is never closed. Responsibility lays on both sides. Every move you make is a risk. To hold any situation accountable unless it is risk free is too silly to contemplate. Yet someone seems to be doing just that. This man had no power over anyone. If they are so unskillful that they believe in someone who is really a fraud then they deserve a darwin award. As I said if they had doubts about what might happen to them and what their abilities were then they never acted on it. Had they done the research on this guy that OC has done they would have none of him.

Let the buyer beware.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/07/09 05:23 PM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: James Arthur Ray - The Prequel [Re: JasonVira]
    #11405762 - 11/07/09 05:38 PM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Number of people dead from any of Swami's activities direct or indirect: zero.

If it weren't private I would list the two suicidal people on this forum from 6 or 7 years back whom I counseled in PMs and telephone and later thanked me for helping them return to some sanity.

I care enough about my friends, acquaintances and people on this forum to steer them away from dangerous situations when I can.

Does compassion = cynicism?


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