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InvisibleIcelander
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What are the implications
    #11400642 - 11/06/09 10:01 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinedill705
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Re: What are the implications [Re: Icelander]
    #11401243 - 11/07/09 12:08 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I find it fascinating that a belief, that a cream kills pain, actually shuts off pain related cells in the spinal cord.

The only implication that I care about is more understanding to lead to a proper brain theory.


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What are the implications [Re: dill705]
    #11402812 - 11/07/09 08:27 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I think it's one of the most amazing and important things I have come across.

It tells me at some level attitude creates effect. Unfortunately some people take this seeming fact past the point of reality and then other, just as illogical posters, dig in their heels and say nothing is going on here at all. Both are wrong imo and the effects go unexplored.

Like almost always the wise man chooses the middle path.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/07/09 08:27 AM)


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: What are the implications [Re: Icelander]
    #11403298 - 11/07/09 11:25 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah placebo affect is greatly important. I am hoping to see great advances in understanding the 'power of the mind' in my lifetime. I see little reason to posit supernatural things when the natural world is so incredibly complex and still beyond the scope of our scientific understanding

Seems like the brain wants to reduce anxiety/stress/arousal, as a primary motive. However, its anxiety is necessary for it to protect itself. The brain has developed a range of ways of reducing anxiety, but only when it is safe to do so. This reduction in anxiety reduces the strain on immune system. When people are with friends, and feel welcomed and taken care of, they can feel safer and thus their bodies spend less time being at the ready. When a person finds out they are injured or sick, these days, they tend to stress a lot because in our culture it is expected that you avoid danger and live a long time, are as healthy as possible, etc. This is likely to produce arousal because in primitive jungle setting, getting some injury or sickness was something that you didnt want to forget about until you were at camp, either giving it a solution or having someone else solve it and treat it. I would say that the placebo affect is mostly reactive to the notion that someone is doing something to the thing that you are worrying about.
I am starting to think that perhaps discomfort is the default state of somatic sense, coming with it an increased somatic 'presence', involving increased pain. However, the brain develops many tools that it is constantly using to know when it is safe and can be comfortable. It is constantly reassuring itself that various signals do not have to be cared about. It develops all kinds of beliefs in order to gague when it should be worrying about what, and the thing it is worrying about will have increased sensory presence. Perhaps pain disorders are an inability for the brain to stop worrying and attending to certain somatic signals.

This is sort of a psychoanalytic view that I am imagining now

as if the mind is always trying to avoid stress when appropriate. Stress is associated with action, burning energy, functioning. The mind can sense the world and determine what it needs to do in order to obtain a state where it does not need to spend more energy. A worm, for example, is probably very uncomfortable except when it is eating and shitting nice dirt, in which case it is only a little bit uncomfortable. If it was content, it would probably stop moving around and thus stop eating properly and just sit there. When uncomfortable, the energy is spent more by the muscles, in order to move it to a better place to feed. When out of the earth, the muscles lash around especially when stimulated, it is not recieving any comforting signals from any part of its body.
In insects, probably also feel only major discomfort and minor discomfort. Insects have more developed impulses reacting to different stimuli. Impulses are interwined with stress and direct attention and create arousal in order to move the body into acheiving the impulse. Insects are currently affected by a range of impulses, as we would also call instincts, that make it perform certain actions. Insects can develop memories, that is, familiarities, about things and places, and these perceptions can help to instigate the right instincts.
In fish, not much is different, except the ability to percieve visually is likely to be much greater in fish than insects and crustaceans.
Lizards learn to interpret the world differently when warm or cold. Amphibians probably do similar with regards to wet and dry. When cold/dry, the animals prioritise their desire to find a good environment to exist in. These animals probably have better memories of environments than invertabrates and fish have.
When warm/damp, the animals are more comfortable and will eat and fuck and sit around.
Mammals and birds are much more complex due to the fact that they exist in child-parent relationships and thus need to develop specialised systems of recognition and communication. So mammals have their base impulses, their general feeling like they are in a good place, and also the sense of when specific things in the environment are threatening/hostile or friendly/safe. Mammals learn to detect when or not to trust certain things, in order to determine which instincts to invoke. These complex warm blooded animals can also develop new mechanisms that they employ in order to absolve their instincts (which are impulses to move in ways).
By the time you reach humans, we have many layers of stress reduction. We have our general somatic senses, our environmental vibe, our identification of a plethora of symbols and also we have an amazing ability to learn any number of new physical actions in order to acheive our impulses. We learn ways of thinking that we use to acheive our impulses. Our environments are constantly telling us things and from this information our brain reacts, and in order to deal with these reactions it has various impulses that is is both born with and learns. For us humans, we often develop awareness of our abodies and what a 'healthy body' is and when our body is not giving us these signals, the brain returns to its stressful state, increasing perception of bleamishes and increasing the impetus felt regarding any possible actions that could be taken. The perception inclused sensitivity to pain. When blood is taken by the muscles in order to perform actions, it does nto spend as much time around organs, and thus the body's growth system is stunted.

I wonder some more things from research: they should get some stress level readings as well as indicating how localised the pain-relieving effect of placebo is.

I also wonder when they will come to grips with Qi?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: What are the implications [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11403392 - 11/07/09 11:44 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I would say that the placebo affect is mostly reactive to the notion that someone is doing something to the thing that you are worrying about.

I've been thinking the same thing for a few years now. A tense body does not facilitate the natural healing response as moment to moment survival is paramount. Deep relaxation does. I've watched this uncountable times working in the natural health field for over 20 years.

Great post.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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