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MasFina
Snow Shredder
Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains
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PC time for LC, 5 mins too short?
#11397497 - 11/06/09 11:49 AM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've done LC a few times, but I'm always tweaking things to get it better.
I think I carmelized the last batch to the point that I couldn't germinate some old spores so I wanted to do a shorter PC time.
I just did 15 psi for 5 mins. Although, the LC was probably boiling for 10 mins prior to reaching 15psi cuz I let it heat up real slow so I didn't break jars.
I based this off of a RR post recommending 5-8 mins with 1tea/1tea LME/dex.
The liquid is almost crystal clear, so I know carmelization is not an issue this time.
You would think that liquid would sterilize pretty quick, so I'm optimistic.
Think it'll work?
Anyone ever done this short of time before.
-------------------- A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step Timer Modification PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping
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MasFina
Snow Shredder
Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
#11397536 - 11/06/09 11:53 AM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Good Article regarding autoclaving:
http://microbiologyon-line.blogspot.com/2009/08/autoclaving-real-sterilization.html
They are not on my side: Liquid Solutions*
Container Size
Liquid Volume
Sterilization Time (min)
Test Tube:
18×150 mm
10 ml
15
Erlenmeyer Flask:
125 ml
95 ml
15
Erlenmeyer Flask:
2000 ml
1500 ml
30
Fermentation Bottle:
9000 ml
6750 ml
70
-------------------- A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step Timer Modification PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping
Edited by MasFina (11/06/09 11:56 AM)
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
#11397652 - 11/06/09 12:08 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I do 20-30 mins for LC.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Herbal_Elixer
Strangerest
Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 1,841
Loc: Reykjavik
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Doc_T]
#11397664 - 11/06/09 12:10 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said: I do 20-30 mins for LC.
me too.. I kind of follow agar times..
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MasFina
Snow Shredder
Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Doc_T]
#11397671 - 11/06/09 12:12 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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and you don't find carmelization to be a problem? 15psi?
-------------------- A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step Timer Modification PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
#11397688 - 11/06/09 12:13 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's a little PC, probably 10-12 psi. I don't usually do LC in the big Presto. Never had a problem with caramelization that I know of. My LC does turn orange or brown, but that's because I use a Thick and Chunky Style recipe.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Herbal_Elixer
Strangerest
Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 1,841
Loc: Reykjavik
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Doc_T]
#11397698 - 11/06/09 12:15 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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mine stays clear (karo) at 15 psi.. no issues, my last batch of 6 1/2 pints all turned out and are happily doing their thing.
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MasFina
Snow Shredder
Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
#11397742 - 11/06/09 12:19 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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hmm, my last run time was 15-20 mins I think (15psi), using malt/dex and they were dark yellow. was using 3 year old spores (stored at room temp) so maybe the problem was more the spores than the carmelization. I dunno
-------------------- A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step Timer Modification PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping
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Herbal_Elixer
Strangerest
Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 1,841
Loc: Reykjavik
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
#11397773 - 11/06/09 12:23 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm not sure.. I have only used honey and karo.. but I got some cultures from Stamets once.. the syringes were dark gold and packed with growth. Not sure what they used.
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thedoc8
TooMuch
Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 442
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
#11397777 - 11/06/09 12:24 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I do 12 min @15 and mine is always carmel color of the honny. Never had a bad batch. (it was clear before cooking). Still work fine, every time.
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MasFina
Snow Shredder
Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: thedoc8]
#11397882 - 11/06/09 12:38 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm gonna put the jars in for another 10 mins at about 12psi and see what happens. I guess it's just a compromise between absolute sterility and clear LC.
-------------------- A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step Timer Modification PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping
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Herbal_Elixer
Strangerest
Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 1,841
Loc: Reykjavik
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
#11398029 - 11/06/09 12:56 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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yeah.. again, I don't know (lol), but I have seen plenty of dark and successful lc's. GL
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MasFina
Snow Shredder
Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
#11398130 - 11/06/09 01:11 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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i did another 7 mins and they came out mostly clear still except that now there is a bunch of little particles in there. Those are so annoying.
I think 12 mins is my new magic #
-------------------- A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step Timer Modification PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
#11398229 - 11/06/09 01:23 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
MasFina said: I guess it's just a compromise between absolute sterility and clear LC.
I don't see why it matters. Since you can't tell anything by looking at LC, why does it matter what it looks like?
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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MasFina
Snow Shredder
Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Doc_T]
#11398266 - 11/06/09 01:26 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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carmelization is supposedly bad for mycelium growth
-------------------- A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step Timer Modification PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
#11398303 - 11/06/09 01:31 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think that's a myth. I think people use too much sugar then blame their failure on caramelization. IMO. I've seriously never seen a jar of LC that was cooked so long it wouldn't colonize. Maybe it's a problem, but I've never seen it.
Maybe someday I'll do time trials and see what happens over longer periods. But right now I can say 30 mins is ok.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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MasFina
Snow Shredder
Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Doc_T]
#11398398 - 11/06/09 01:43 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah, it's one of those areas of uncertainty.
Someone needs to write a comprehensive cubensis cultivation bible that addresses every little detail like this and save us all the thinking.
Maybe it could be a group collaberation with all the old hands of the shroomery contributing.
Like 5 people could be assigned LC and 5 people could be assigned research and writing for bulk subs and then everyone would have to agree on the final product.
Stamets is too diverse and general to be refered to for every question regarding cubes.
-------------------- A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step Timer Modification PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping
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Herbal_Elixer
Strangerest
Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 1,841
Loc: Reykjavik
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
#11398488 - 11/06/09 01:53 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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yeah.. Stamets numbers work though, and for a single researcher/team.. he has compiled an amazing amount of info.. but even he often mentions that more studies into each detail may lead to the next break through.. And, I agree with what you are saying.. it may be up to you to be the LC master .. but, the Shroomery has a lot of detailed findings.. you just have to find them. A lot are not related directly, but offer clues to what one is searching for.. That's the best part of this hobby.. like RR says in his video about using agar.. "we get to become mad scientists" .. I am dedicated to the "Palm Frond".. lol.. but really. I am pasteurizing a new palm frond substrate as we speak.. But, a organized group collaboration would be pretty cool for any and all apectss.
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
#11398497 - 11/06/09 01:55 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I believe it's been tried before, community research of various types.
Ought to be, if it hasn't already.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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daytripper05
Psychonaut
Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
#11398521 - 11/06/09 01:58 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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When I PC agar and LC's, I just let the pressure build to 15psi then I kill the heat to the stove. This will allow the pressure to decrease of the duration needed and allow plenty of time to sterilize liquids without worry about crystallizing your sugars. After a lot of trial and error, this my preferred method.
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