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InvisibleMasFina
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PC time for LC, 5 mins too short?
    #11397497 - 11/06/09 01:49 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I've done LC a few times, but I'm always tweaking things to get it better.

I think I carmelized the last batch to the point that I couldn't germinate some old spores so I wanted to do a shorter PC time.

I just did 15 psi for 5 mins. Although, the LC was probably boiling for 10 mins prior to reaching 15psi cuz I let it heat up real slow so I didn't break jars.

I based this off of a RR post recommending 5-8 mins with 1tea/1tea LME/dex.

The liquid is almost crystal clear, so I know carmelization is not an issue this time.

You would think that liquid would sterilize pretty quick, so I'm optimistic.

Think it'll work?

Anyone ever done this short of time before.


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
    #11397536 - 11/06/09 01:53 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Good Article regarding autoclaving:

http://microbiologyon-line.blogspot.com/2009/08/autoclaving-real-sterilization.html

They are not on my side:
Liquid Solutions*

Container Size


Liquid Volume


Sterilization Time (min)

Test Tube:

18×150 mm


10 ml


15

Erlenmeyer Flask:

125 ml


95 ml


15

Erlenmeyer Flask:

2000 ml


1500 ml


30

Fermentation Bottle:

9000 ml


6750 ml


70


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Edited by MasFina (11/06/09 01:56 PM)


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
    #11397652 - 11/06/09 02:08 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I do 20-30 mins for LC. :shrug:


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Doc_T]
    #11397664 - 11/06/09 02:10 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
I do 20-30 mins for LC. :shrug:





me too.. I kind of follow agar times..


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Doc_T]
    #11397671 - 11/06/09 02:12 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

and you don't find carmelization to be a problem? 15psi?


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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
    #11397688 - 11/06/09 02:13 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

It's a little PC, probably 10-12 psi. I don't usually do LC in the big Presto.
Never had a problem with caramelization that I know of. My LC does turn orange or brown, but that's because I use a Thick and Chunky Style recipe.


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Doc_T]
    #11397698 - 11/06/09 02:15 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

mine stays clear (karo) at 15 psi.. no issues, my last batch of 6 1/2 pints all turned out and are happily doing their thing.


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11397742 - 11/06/09 02:19 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

hmm, my last run time was 15-20 mins I think (15psi), using malt/dex and they were dark yellow. was using 3 year old spores (stored at room temp) so maybe the problem was more the spores than the carmelization. I dunno


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
    #11397773 - 11/06/09 02:23 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not sure.. I have only used honey and karo.. but I got some cultures from Stamets once.. the syringes were dark gold and packed with growth. Not sure what they used.


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Offlinethedoc8
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
    #11397777 - 11/06/09 02:24 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I do 12 min @15 and mine is always carmel color of the honny. Never had a bad batch. (it was clear before cooking). Still work fine, every time.


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: thedoc8]
    #11397882 - 11/06/09 02:38 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I'm gonna put the jars in for another 10 mins at about 12psi and see what happens. I guess it's just a compromise between absolute sterility and clear LC.


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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
    #11398029 - 11/06/09 02:56 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

yeah.. again, I don't know (lol), but I have seen plenty of dark and successful lc's. GL


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11398130 - 11/06/09 03:11 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

i did another 7 mins and they came out mostly clear still except that now there is a bunch of little particles in there. Those are so annoying.

I think 12 mins is my new magic #


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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
    #11398229 - 11/06/09 03:23 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MasFina said:
I guess it's just a compromise between absolute sterility and clear LC.




I don't see why it matters. Since you can't tell anything by looking at LC, why does it matter what it looks like?


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Doc_T]
    #11398266 - 11/06/09 03:26 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

carmelization is supposedly bad for mycelium growth


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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
    #11398303 - 11/06/09 03:31 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I think that's a myth. I think people use too much sugar then blame their failure on caramelization. IMO.
I've seriously never seen a jar of LC that was cooked so long it wouldn't colonize. Maybe it's a problem, but I've never seen it.

Maybe someday I'll do time trials and see what happens over longer periods. But right now I can say 30 mins is ok.


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Doc_T]
    #11398398 - 11/06/09 03:43 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, it's one of those areas of uncertainty.

Someone needs to write a comprehensive cubensis cultivation bible that addresses every little detail like this and save us all the thinking.

Maybe it could be a group collaberation with all the old hands of the shroomery contributing.

Like 5 people could be assigned LC and 5 people could be assigned research and writing for bulk subs and then everyone would have to agree on the final product.

Stamets is too diverse and general to be refered to for every question regarding cubes.


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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
    #11398488 - 11/06/09 03:53 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

yeah.. Stamets numbers work though, and for a single researcher/team.. he has compiled an amazing amount of info.. but even he often mentions that more studies into each detail may lead to the next break through.. And, I agree with what you are saying.. it may be up to you to be the LC master :smile: .. but, the Shroomery has a lot of detailed findings.. you just have to find them. A lot are not related directly, but offer clues to what one is searching for.. That's the best part of this hobby.. like RR says in his video about using agar.. "we get to become mad scientists" ..
I am dedicated to the "Palm Frond".. lol.. but really. I am pasteurizing a new palm frond substrate as we speak.. But, a organized group collaboration would be pretty cool for any and all apectss.


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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11398497 - 11/06/09 03:55 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I believe it's been tried before, community research of various types.

Ought to be, if it hasn't already.


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Re: PC time for LC, 5 mins too short? [Re: MasFina]
    #11398521 - 11/06/09 03:58 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

When I PC agar and LC's, I just let the pressure build to 15psi then I kill the heat to the stove. This will allow the pressure to decrease of the duration needed and allow plenty of time to sterilize liquids without worry about crystallizing your sugars. After a lot of trial and error, this my preferred method.


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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Paul Stamets

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