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OfflineDishez
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Registered: 09/25/07
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Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!!
    #11391218 - 11/05/09 04:14 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Habitat:
Northern NJ Marsh Meadows, on loamy clumps of decaying reed stumps.

Gills:
brown/grey (see pic), not attached

Stem:
3-4 cm long, .5 cm diameter, white/tan becoming brown/violet at the base when handled, very slightly fibrous, hollow, somewhat frail.

Cap:
1-3 cm in diameter, tan color, drying to light tan, smooth, slightly sticky

Spore print color:
actual prints in progress, spores on stipe and gills suggest purble/brown

Bruising:
hints of greenish bruising in some spots (see pics below). Bruising dark brown/violet where handled.

Other information:
Scent of the mushroom: Graveolens is reportedly named after its "strong" odor...These smell exactly like Psilocybe ovodiocystidia...strangely, as they dry, the smell becomes nice, much like "new car" air freshener! These were found in the EXACT habitat described by Peck. They dont match his description to a T, but, being that they havent been found in nearly 100 years, have never been photographed, and information on them is scarce to say the absolute least, id say its a promising possibility. bruising isnt as strong as I would have expected, nor is the texturization on the stems. These were VERY hard to find. Of the entire area searched, I found four. These were also the areas only mushrooms growing...

two last things...
If they are not graveolens, the are certainly another type of Psilocybe.
Also, I apologize about copyrighting the images...its just that there are no known existing photos of graveolens, im sure you guys can understand.


Hopefully 2 years of research and planning paid off! Thanks Alan for your help!




Ill have to wait to post more pics...seems ive hit my limit.


Edited by Dishez (11/05/09 04:24 PM)


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InvisibleDannyGlick

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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11391293 - 11/05/09 04:25 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Wow. Congratulations man. :cool:


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InvisibleLibertycapper
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: DannyGlick]
    #11391329 - 11/05/09 04:30 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

wow! nice finds and what great feeling that must have been to id those!


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Offlineshroomgatherer
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11391336 - 11/05/09 04:31 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Awesome find:thumbup: Good work on researching them with little to nothing to go on.


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OfflineDishez
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Libertycapper]
    #11391352 - 11/05/09 04:33 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks guys! I just hope Im right on the ID...if I were 100% sure i would be running around and screaming like a little girl at a hannah montana show right now! The lack of green bruising is whats really throwing me off...it only showed up in one, and its a very tiny amount...almost as if it were a stain from plant matter rubbing against it.


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InvisibleDannyGlick

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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11391362 - 11/05/09 04:35 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Well I hope you're right. I can't think of what else they could be.


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11391447 - 11/05/09 04:48 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I can be of service on the microscopic confirmation.  Check your PM's

I was thinking that this species must be extinct.  I was noticing that the only other species in the section Zapotecorum that grows during cool environmental conditions is P. aucklandii from New Zealand.  All others are tropical/subtropical.  I was speculating that maybe they are the same species and P. gravolens was just an adventitious fruiting of P. aucklandii that didn't persist.

Pretty exciting stuff!


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InvisibleMycOhunter

Registered: 03/05/09
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Workman]
    #11391489 - 11/05/09 04:55 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Workman said:
Pretty exciting stuff!




Yes indeed, awesome finds.:thumbup:


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InvisibleAsht0n
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11391826 - 11/05/09 05:44 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Impressive find!


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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Asht0n]
    #11391943 - 11/05/09 06:05 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

They seem perfect match with the wiki article i wrote. Well done!:thumbup:

Psilocybe graveolens

They do look alot like Psilocybe aucklandii, or should i say P.aucklandii looks like P. graveolens.


Edited by HerbBaker (11/05/09 06:26 PM)


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InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Asht0n]
    #11391948 - 11/05/09 06:05 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Impressive indeed, I've always wanted to see a photo of this species.


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OfflineDishez
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #11393063 - 11/05/09 08:37 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the responses, im feeling more confident in the ID now :smile:. Im glad to say that one of the caps is printing...i hope to get a chance to go out and find more of these so that I can get multiple good prints. I wonder if the season for them is just starting, hmmmm.


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OfflineTwiztidsage
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11393128 - 11/05/09 08:45 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I am very impressed. Awesome find. :cloud9:

Lets bring this new (old) species back into the rotation! Propagate those spores!


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11393454 - 11/05/09 09:36 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Does it smell like anything?


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Twiztidsage]
    #11393463 - 11/05/09 09:37 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

wow that is spectacular!! way to go. :smile:


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OfflineDishez
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #11393571 - 11/05/09 09:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I dont quite know how to describe the "ovoid" smell...which is exactly the same as this mushroom...its like some sort of organic chemical smell...P. nematoloformis had the same smell...i forget if caerulipes did as well. As i mentioned in the origional post, the strangest part is that, as the specimens became dry, the odor changed into something that smells almost exactly like the air freshener scent thats called "new car". I wouldnt say that the smell on these is stronger than ovoids though...At first i thought that could have been a ringer that the ID is off, but I thought about it for a while and realized that odor can often be subjective.


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Offlineehtdaedlufetarg
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #11393596 - 11/05/09 09:53 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

:rockon:Cool stuff.


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OfflineMr E Guest
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: ehtdaedlufetarg]
    #11393674 - 11/05/09 10:03 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Wow! Nice find. Never even heard of this one before! Well done. :mushroom2:


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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11393675 - 11/05/09 10:04 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Great find Dishez,

Do you have any micrographs of the cheilocystidia, it would be interesting to note wether or not there were any bifurcate cheilocystidia like those found in Psilocybe aucklandii.
I suspect P. aucklandii has been introduced into New Zealand at some stage, maybe when Pinus radiata was introduced as a timber crop and has adapted to our climate, it is not very common or robust and doesn't seem to thrive like other cold wood loving species!
inski.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Mr E Guest]
    #11393694 - 11/05/09 10:07 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

That is because no one has collected it since 1913.


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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #11393755 - 11/05/09 10:15 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, it's a very rare species, I've been waiting for someone to rediscover this mushroom, it's an exciting find!
The species name literally means "strong smelling", it is supposedly close to P. zapotecorum but with larger spores.
P. aucklandii is very similar to P. zapotecorum also but with narrower pleurocystidia and slightly wider spores.
inski


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: inski]
    #11394665 - 11/06/09 12:21 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Psilocybe graveolens (Peck)



Description:
Cap: (10)20-30(40) mm in diam., convex to subumbonate, then expanded with a slight umbo or sometimes depressed at the center, glabrous, even but slightly striate at the margin when moist or when dry, hygrophanous, brownish fading to creamy white to subalutaceous, or pale orange brownish, with some dark greenish tones.
Gills: adnexed, somewhat close, yellowish brown to chocolate-brown, edges same color or somewhat pallid.
Stem: (20)40-60 by 2-5 mm, equal or somewhat thick towards the base or subbulbous, bluing, in dry conditions with dark violaceous tints, stuffed to hollow, white to brownish, silky fibrillose with white appressed to floccose fibrils from the veil.  Base subhypogeous like pseudorhiza, covered by soil.  Veil as arachnoid white fibrils, forming a very evanescent annulus in young stages.

Microscopic Features:
Spores: (7)7.5-9.5(10.5) by (3.7)4.5-5.2(6) µm, ellipsoid or subellipsoid both in face and side view, yellowish brown, thin walled, with small apical distinct germ pore.
Basidia: 21-26 by 6-7.5 µm, 4-spored , hyaline, subventricose or subcylindric.
Pleurocystidia: 26-38 by 6-8 µm, hyaline, but some are pale brownish or yellowish brown, fusioid-ventricose, some with a short neck, or mucronate.
Cheilocystidia: 12-22 by 5-8 µm, abundant, hyaline, sublageniform or lageniform, neck 2.4-4 µm broad somewhat flexuous.

Habitat:  Caespitose or gregarious on marshy soils in meadows.  Fruiting in November.  Known only from the type locality, collected around 1913. 
Distribution: U.S.A., New Jersey

Comments:  The name means strong smelling.  Close to P. zapotecorum Heim emend Guzmán but with larger spores.

Unlike the mostly subtropical/tropical species in section Zapotecorum, P. graveolens is a northern temperate species that fruits in November.  The only other species in this section that fruits under similar conditions is P. aucklandii from New Zealand.  Both species have nearly identically sized spores, comparable cystidia and the carpophores are described as similar in size, form and coloration.  The only significant difference seems to be that P. graveolens has somewhat larger pleurocystidia of which a few may be brownish or yellowish.


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Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:


Edited by Workman (11/06/09 12:28 AM)


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InvisibleShockValue
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Workman]
    #11395071 - 11/06/09 01:35 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)



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Offlinerewdy
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: ShockValue]
    #11395084 - 11/06/09 01:39 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

we here at shroomery make mushroom history.


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OfflineRazoom
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11395264 - 11/06/09 02:21 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

:snowman:


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InvisibleLord Mayonnaise
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Razoom]
    #11395427 - 11/06/09 03:09 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Welcome Graveolens to the shroomery!


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Offline2859558484
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11395491 - 11/06/09 03:29 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

great work man


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Offlinephishhead
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: 2859558484]
    #11396327 - 11/06/09 09:53 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

great finds dishez, would be amazing to see someone propogate these. great job bro!!!


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"Moderation is the key to life..."


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OfflinepsychedelicSLUG
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: phishhead]
    #11396401 - 11/06/09 10:15 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

FUCK you beat me to it!!!
WOW CONGRATS IM SO HYPED ON THIS!!!:vaped::hotidea::congrats:


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:sun:Variety is the spice of life!:sun:




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OfflineDishez
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: phishhead]
    #11396417 - 11/06/09 10:19 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks again guys. Here are a couple more pics...wanted to go back out today but it is too windy, going to this place with even a slight constant breeze would be hell!





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OfflinepsychedelicSLUG
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11396438 - 11/06/09 10:25 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Dishez said:
Thanks again guys. Here are a couple more pics...wanted to go back out today but it is too windy, going to this place with even a slight constant breeze would be hell!







jesus...im so excited...
please print those!


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:sun:Variety is the spice of life!:sun:




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OfflineTime Ed
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: psychedelicSLUG]
    #11396465 - 11/06/09 10:31 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Sweet Find Man I swear this year is perfect for mushrooms Almost a century since this ones been seen
:sunny::sunny::sunny::sunny::sunny:


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OfflineDishez
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: psychedelicSLUG]
    #11396471 - 11/06/09 10:33 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

please print those!



this goes without saying! (3 good prints already made, second set in progress)

Were going to have to find a few new NJ species! Ive run out of psilocybes to find!


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OfflineTime Ed
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11396504 - 11/06/09 10:43 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I hope there are more in PA that just have to be found. The Ovoid find isn't even 10 years yet. And I vow to continue that search till the day I can't walk no more but maybe I'll just crawl then. :grin:


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OfflineDishez
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Time Ed]
    #11396538 - 11/06/09 10:49 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Keep looking and planning. Youll find something new eventually. In the past two years I found two species that were previously undiscovered in NJ (ovoidiocystidiata and nematoloformis)... imagine what else there is to find!


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OfflineTime Ed
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11396553 - 11/06/09 10:54 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I will and I am recruiting other hunters. The crazy thing is my partner doesn't eat them and I rarely do anymore. We just respect the magic of all mushrooms


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OfflineDishez
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Time Ed]
    #11396589 - 11/06/09 11:02 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Same here, I rarely ever eat actives. Im very into collecting them though...im forming a collection of rare spores and tissue samples, and working on a few other projects as well...i guess for me the hunt is more about the trophy than the feast...unless we're talking about edibles :smile:


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Offlinetangoking
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11396600 - 11/06/09 11:05 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Dude that's awesome!!!!!

I live in NJ too and through the years I've occasionally heard people mention that there's "some active mushroom that only grows in them marshes up north" but I've never actually seen one.

NICE WORK!!!

:thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:

ps Not sure if you've seen this thread:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Garden&Number=2909304&Forum=,,All_Forums,,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=2907816&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=7661&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post2909304


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Edited by tangoking (11/06/09 11:13 AM)


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OfflineTime Ed
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11396722 - 11/06/09 11:34 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I fully agree We have feasted this year for sure on edibles from Lion's Mane to Honeys. We just missed out on morels this year. The only one we didn't find that we were looking for.


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OfflinePurple_spore
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11396978 - 11/06/09 12:28 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Why do the shroom gods smile upon you so? Are you just a mere man or the spawn of the shroom lord.


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OfflineMead
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11397113 - 11/06/09 12:52 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

cool deal, hope you get a print IDed confirming it.

Question; in the pics the habitat looks partly shaded, are these "marshy meadows" like clearings in the woods or more of a marshy field that borders the woods or something else(near river or lake etc?)
Just want to try to pin down some potential areas.


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OfflineDishez
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11428511 - 11/10/09 09:39 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

More specimens more pictures...
Wish I had time to write more. Notice that the specimens found growing directly from sodden marsh ground are olive green. They almost appear to be a completely different mushroom from those that are found growing on reed clumps 1 foot or more above water level. It should also be noted that the marsh ground is so wet and...marshy?...that If i were to step foot on it I would sink to my chest (that's saying a lot because im a big fella. Also notice what appears to be a salt deposit ring on the macro shots. Im finding that as the deep marsh specimens dry, most are developing this ring...absolutely amazing in my book!






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OfflineXD40
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11429097 - 11/10/09 11:14 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

So some mushrooms you cant even reach cause you'll fall in? lol thats awesome!


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11429691 - 11/11/09 12:28 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Dishez said:
Same here, I rarely ever eat actives. Im very into collecting them though...im forming a collection of rare spores and tissue samples, and working on a few other projects as well...i guess for me the hunt is more about the trophy than the feast...unless we're talking about edibles :smile:





You are an incredible hunter and this is a unique find.  Why?  How many people go mushroom hunting in a habitat like that?  Not many.  Not to be a wet blanket but this doesn't excite me too much, not nearly as much as your other rare finds anyway.  We have a lot in common.

Still mad props to you.  You certainly deserve them.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #11430223 - 11/11/09 01:55 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

what other rare finds?!


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: burtonRebel]
    #11430847 - 11/11/09 04:15 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

congratz on this amazing find!
who is working on the identification?


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: kaal-kopje]
    #11431673 - 11/11/09 10:05 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Morels in March Ed. :laugh:


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: psychedelicSLUG]
    #11431749 - 11/11/09 10:30 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

psychedelicSLUG said:
FUCK you beat me to it!!!
WOW CONGRATS IM SO HYPED ON THIS!!!:vaped::hotidea::congrats:




Me too, haha.

Fucking incredible find man, I too was under the impression that this species was extinct.  Proves the resilience of mushrooms in the face of habitat destruction.  Really really fucking incredible!!!

No less than a couple of years ago, magic mushrooms hadn't been found in this state for who knows how long, but as of late, NJ is really starting to become an active mycohaven...I'm fucking psyched!!


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: libertaire]
    #11434063 - 11/11/09 05:14 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks guys.
Mr. Mushrooms, I agree that the find is so rare in part because of its habitat...its not only hell getting to them, but they are ridiculously hard to spot when you're there...however; i wouldn't be surprised in the least if you understand what I mean when I say my brain has learned the pattern by which to scan for them :smile:.

Workman and Alan are working on the identification.

I think that the other rare finds Mr. Mushrooms was referring too are the NJ ovoidiocystidiata (around 2 years ago) nematoloformis (around 1 year ago) careulepes (around 4 months ago) and some other cool finds.

Im holding back on any specific/potentially revealing info regarding the habitat for now.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11436490 - 11/11/09 10:08 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

that's how i feel about P. pelliculosa and others. though in my case, my soaking wet hands and knees learned the pattern aswell.

i wonder how many of the hikers/joggers/dog-walkers who have passed me by assumed i had lost my mind. most i hope.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11437571 - 11/12/09 12:05 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Dishez said:Im holding back on any specific/potentially revealing info regarding the habitat for now.




I hope you'll change your mind on that, at least in a general sense.  It would be nice to know exactly the type of habitat that this species thrives, and apparently is essential for it to even exist, since it seems to be so rare.  At least from my perspective.  I understand your reservations though, I think a species like this is best left alone for the most part, except for those who are truly seeking it.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11437639 - 11/12/09 12:15 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

holy shit man. keep up the good work, you must have been pretty siked when you found you're first. You're exciting several new jersey mushroom hunters im sure.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: burtonRebel]
    #11437778 - 11/12/09 12:41 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

burtonRebel said:
holy shit man. keep up the good work, you must have been pretty siked when you found you're first. You're exciting several new jersey mushroom hunters im sure.



YES!!! (yea you have to no max) :gameover:


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: psychedelicSLUG]
    #11438116 - 11/12/09 01:48 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

psychedelicSLUG said:
Quote:

burtonRebel said:
holy shit man. keep up the good work, you must have been pretty siked when you found you're first. You're exciting several new jersey mushroom hunters im sure.



YES!!! (yea you have to no max) :gameover:



You could say that again.:grin:


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: libertaire]
    #11438414 - 11/12/09 03:29 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Just think of how cool it must be to eat something that hasn't been knowingly harvested in almost 100 years... in New Jersey... :eek:

...of course some have to be sacrificed for the sake of science but I'm talking about the leftovers :wink:


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Raspootin]
    #11441367 - 11/12/09 04:42 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Bump for an incredibly historic thread.  :stoned:


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: libertaire]
    #11442283 - 11/12/09 06:51 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks again for the props guys; Im not planning on eating any for now, its way too important for me to make sure that I have a suitable amount of samples...plus im not sure if these are even active, as ive come to the conclusion that the bruising that I thought I saw was an illusion- none have bruised since. to be honest the consistant lack of bruising is the only thing making me doubt that these are in fact graveolens.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11443091 - 11/12/09 08:34 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Dishez said:
Thanks guys.
Mr. Mushrooms, I agree that the find is so rare in part because of its habitat...its not only hell getting to them, but they are ridiculously hard to spot when you're there...however; i wouldn't be surprised in the least if you understand what I mean when I say my brain has learned the pattern by which to scan for them :smile:.

Workman and Alan are working on the identification.

I think that the other rare finds Mr. Mushrooms was referring too are the NJ ovoidiocystidiata (around 2 years ago) nematoloformis (around 1 year ago) careulepes (around 4 months ago) and some other cool finds.

Im holding back on any specific/potentially revealing info regarding the habitat for now.





Yes, I am referring to those mushrooms.  There are many types of mushroom hunters.  Some are "lookers."  They go to the woods like they're out to see whatever they can see.  Sometimes they actually find unique mushrooms, mostly by accident.  Some are hunters that hunt for mushrooms.  They may be on a specific hunt for a specific mushroom and sometimes they even find them.  Others are "finders."  They look for a specific mushroom until they find it, even if it takes years.  Everyone has a different level of skill.

From the unique finds you've made and your approach to hunting I'd say you're one of the best hunters we have.

Thanks for all your contributions to mycology and the Shroomery.  :hatsoff:


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #11443111 - 11/12/09 08:36 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:
Quote:

Dishez said:
Thanks guys.
Mr. Mushrooms, I agree that the find is so rare in part because of its habitat...its not only hell getting to them, but they are ridiculously hard to spot when you're there...however; i wouldn't be surprised in the least if you understand what I mean when I say my brain has learned the pattern by which to scan for them :smile:.

Workman and Alan are working on the identification.

I think that the other rare finds Mr. Mushrooms was referring too are the NJ ovoidiocystidiata (around 2 years ago) nematoloformis (around 1 year ago) careulepes (around 4 months ago) and some other cool finds.

Im holding back on any specific/potentially revealing info regarding the habitat for now.





Yes, I am referring to those mushrooms.  There are many types of mushroom hunters.  Some are "lookers."  They go to the woods like they're out to see whatever they can see.  Sometimes they actually find unique mushrooms, mostly by accident.  Some are hunters that hunt for mushrooms.  They may be on a specific hunt for a specific mushroom and sometimes they even find them.  Others are "finders."  They look for a specific mushroom until they find it, even if it takes years.  Everyone has a different level of skill.

From the unique finds you've made and your approach to hunting I'd say you're one of the best hunters we have.

Thanks for all your contributions to mycology and the Shroomery.  :hatsoff:



:thumbup::congrats:


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: psychedelicSLUG]
    #11444299 - 11/12/09 10:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Wow...thanks for the extremely generous compliment!!!!!


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11444303 - 11/12/09 10:51 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Dishez said:
Wow...thanks for the extremely generous compliment!!!!!



He is speaking the truth!


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: psychedelicSLUG]
    #11488720 - 11/19/09 10:26 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

i was following this thread earlier and wondered if i had missed something or if we still are awaiting a positive id. Alan??? Workman??


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Libertycapper]
    #11489002 - 11/19/09 11:04 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Still waiting on a positive ID. I did, however, find a specimen that was showing definite greening.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11489049 - 11/19/09 11:10 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

fantastic news!!


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11489081 - 11/19/09 11:13 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Dishez said:
Still waiting on a positive ID. I did, however, find a specimen that was showing definite greening.



YAY!!! :stoned:


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Libertycapper]
    #11489192 - 11/19/09 11:30 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I should have the specimen Monday 11/23 and I will examine it immediately and post the microscopy.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Workman]
    #11489298 - 11/19/09 11:46 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

This is probably cheilocystidia



Spores 1000x, 8.7 micron divisions



Basidia or clavate cystidia



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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #11489441 - 11/20/09 12:06 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Dammit Alan! Scooped me again :wink:

From what I can tell from those micrographs, its looking good for Psilocybe graveolens.  Thin-walled spores of the right dimensions and the cheilocystidia look correct.

I can't wait to check it out myself.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Workman]
    #11489533 - 11/20/09 12:17 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

From what I can tell from those micrographs, its looking good for Psilocybe graveolens.




The stuff I observed looked consistant with graveolens, but I only looked at one gill fragment for a few minutes.

Here is a video I made.  The cystidia sort of come into view as I adjust the fine focus. This is the first cystidia video ever uploaded to youtube and is sure to start a popular culture trend as people around the world become fascinated with these little clear cells and start to show the cystidias of the mushrooms from their area.  Soon there will be thousands of cystidia videos.  You saw it here first.  I think this is cheilocystidia.



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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Workman]
    #11489552 - 11/20/09 12:19 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Holy hell.  feel lucky to even read this as it happens. Amazing work everyone. Dishez-Incredible.:thumbup:  :handth:


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: ehtdaedlufetarg]
    #11491277 - 11/20/09 08:59 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Really fucking amazing.  It's incredible to me that this community has the resources, knowledge, and skills that it does.  Amazing work all around.  Can't wait for a second opinion.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: libertaire]
    #11491492 - 11/20/09 10:27 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

it's historical!!!i sure am glad i am around to see this.

dishez, how long have you been pursuing this species anyways?


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #11493810 - 11/20/09 05:40 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the good news Alan! The cystidia trend caught on like the plague...I already have my cystidia T shirt!

Psylo, Ive been doing research for about two years- it was a lot more than checking spots that seemed like they might be good. I had to think a lot about the changes the state has gone through since Pecks description. I was worried that the high up rise in pollution levels would have wiped the species (which according to Peck was already rare) out over the past century, but, this seems to be one hell of a resilient mushroom.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11493866 - 11/20/09 05:49 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

it only took you a few years?! man thats awesome.if you think about how rare it is that is pretty quick . nothing like setting a goal and following through with it eh! congrats.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #11522861 - 11/25/09 12:18 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Just a quick update...
Workman is still waiting on the samples

Hopefully i will be going back out tomorrow for one last foray. It will be interesting to see whether they have begun to flourish with the drop in temps, or if the season is over.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11524848 - 11/25/09 10:47 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

ya i guess you dont actually know eh!! haha i will pray to the mushroom gods for "they have begun to flourish with the drop in temps.."

good luck.:smile:


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #11525794 - 11/25/09 01:49 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Good luck, I hope you find some more!


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: libertaire]
    #11527995 - 11/25/09 07:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Found about ten more today, these were on a different "clump" about 20 yards away from those that i found last time.  I doubt ill be able to go back out to hunt for them this year, so for now, I would say that they have been in their prime throughout the past two weeks. It should be noted that, of the fairly large area I have been hunting, I have found four "spots" that had them...each spot being one square foot at the most. Also, I found another specimen growing completely submerged in water.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11528333 - 11/25/09 08:51 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I wonder what the psilocybin content is like...


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: burtonRebel]
    #11529068 - 11/25/09 11:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Preliminary examination

 



Spores: 7.4-9.3 x 4.4-5.9 microns, thin-walled, ovoid.
Cheilocystidia: 19-29 x 5.1-8.5 microns, neck width 2.6-4.2, hyaline with some pale brownish.
Pleurocystidia: 16 x 5.3 single measurement of larger definate pleurocystidium.  Tiny structures less clearly pleurocystidia are around 8 microns in length, some irregular brown structures that also might be pleurocystidia or dark basidia.

While the spore size and shape appear to be correct, the cheilocystidia are too large for P. graveolens and the pleurocystidia are indistinct instead of large.

Results inconclusive so far.  The original description needs to be consulted.  Guzman's examination of the 1911 material may have errors due to confusion of the cystidia on the ancient sample.

Published microscopic measurements of type to compare with above.

Peck 1913
Spores:8-10 x 5-6

Smith 1948
Spores: 8-10 x 5-6
Cheilocystidia: 12-22 x 7-9, neck 4-6 broad, hyaline.
Pleurocystidia: 28-32 x 7-9, some brownish

Guzman 1983
Spores: (7-)7.5-9.5(-10.5) x (3.7)4.5-5.2(-6)
Cheilocystidia: 12-22 x 5-8, neck 2.4-4 broad, hyaline.
Pleurocystidia: 26-38 x 6-8, some brownish to yellowish.


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Edited by Workman (11/26/09 12:55 PM)


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Workman]
    #11529109 - 11/25/09 11:29 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Interesting.  Would you say there is any species it resembles at all?  Is it at the very least a unique species?


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11529116 - 11/25/09 11:30 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Dishez said:
Found about ten more today, these were on a different "clump" about 20 yards away from those that i found last time.  I doubt ill be able to go back out to hunt for them this year, so for now, I would say that they have been in their prime throughout the past two weeks. It should be noted that, of the fairly large area I have been hunting, I have found four "spots" that had them...each spot being one square foot at the most. Also, I found another specimen growing completely submerged in water.




That's insane, I had no idea mushrooms could even grow underwater!


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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: libertaire]
    #11529230 - 11/25/09 11:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I doubt it fruited under water, it was probably submerged after it had formed, on the other hand check out Psathyrella aquatica, that recently described species is the first gilled mushroom to be described that fruits under water!
inski..


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: inski]
    #11530466 - 11/26/09 06:21 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Very interesting find. I look forward to seeing the verdict of what it turns out to be.

By the way, hello Shroomery, it's been a while. :smile:


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: wisp]
    #11531443 - 11/26/09 12:37 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Well, I thought I had figured this out.  Looking at Guzman's description, the figure for the cheilocystida doesn't match the size or proportions of the measurements given for the cheilocystidia, but does match the measurements given for the pleurocystidia.  If the cystidia measurements were transposed the match with the recent collection would be pretty good.  Such an error is easy to accept since Guzman's texts are filled with such mistakes.

But....... Looking at Smith (1948) which gives a more complete description of Peck's 1911 type collection we find nearly identical measurements as those given by Guzman (1983).  The only additional information is that the pleurocystidia are rare to scattered.  It seems unlikely both authors would make the same mistake unless Guzman was influenced by Smith's earlier work and that doesn't explain the problem with Guzman's figures 

Another note is that the gill trama is brownish (Guzman 1983) or ochraceous tawny (Smith 1948) which is something I noticed immediately on this sample.  It doesn't show up too well in this micrograph but the brownish gill trama is the darker band at the bottom.  The dark gill trama is much more dramatic that the micrograph suggests.



At this point I think the case for Psilocybe graveolens is pretty good despite the confusion with the cystidial dimensions.  All other features, including habitat match well.  Additional samples need to be examined to determine the range of cystidial morphologies and dimensions.  If the pleurocystidia are actually as large as described, they should be easy to see even if rare.


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Edited by Workman (11/26/09 12:59 PM)


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Workman]
    #11531694 - 11/26/09 01:32 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Another note is that the gill trama is brownish (Guzman 1983) or ochraceous tawny (Smith 1948) which is something I noticed immediately on this sample.  It doesn't show up too well in this micrograph but the brownish gill trama is the darker band at the bottom.  The dark gill trama is much more dramatic that the micrograph suggests.




What do you think about the overall color of the sample?

When I put it under the scope it looked browner than most of the Psilocybes I have seen, making me wonder if it isn't a different genus entirely.  Maybe it would be helpful to take a close look at the pileipellis.

I am kind of hesitant to try to force it to match with P. graveolens - If its something else we should call it that.

I'll put some gill fragments on agar in a few minutes.



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OfflineDishez
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #11533967 - 11/26/09 10:12 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks so much for the work you are doing so far.
Alan, im a noob at microscope work...
Quote:

Maybe it would be helpful to take a close look at the pileipellis.


would this be done by taking a cross section of the cap and examining it, the direction that the hyphae grow in would indicate the genus? Ill go do that now and post some pics...i doubt ill do it right but it should be fun :smile:


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11534085 - 11/26/09 10:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)


Heres the best I could do...hope it helps!


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #11534398 - 11/26/09 11:32 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:

What do you think about the overall color of the sample?

When I put it under the scope it looked browner than most of the Psilocybes I have seen, making me wonder if it isn't a different genus entirely.  Maybe it would be helpful to take a close look at the pileipellis.

I am kind of hesitant to try to force it to match with P. graveolens - If its something else we should call it that.

I'll put some gill fragments on agar in a few minutes.






Well the spore color and size is a match for Psilocybe graveolens which could be a coincidence, I guess.  The gill trama is brown and if viewing thick slices, would give the section an overall browner appearance.  But the hymenium is almost entirely hyaline with the exception of the occasional brown cystidia.

Do you have a suggestion as to what other genus it might fit in better?  To me it looks like a Psilocybe, and if bluing, of the Psychedelia clade.  But the species identity isn't conclusive.  It could be a variant of P. graveolens, since it does seem to share most features.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11535464 - 11/27/09 02:46 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

luuuuuuucky  :zoom:


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OfflineDishez
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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Istigkeit]
    #11535998 - 11/27/09 08:41 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Ive been meaning to post these...
Here are two pictures showing the greening, which is obvious but not heavy.





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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #11537188 - 11/27/09 02:57 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Might be mistaken, but it looks like there's some bruising on that stem as well in the bottom picture.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #16598216 - 07/27/12 09:44 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry to dig up such an old thread...this is my first time using the site in quite a while. I was just reviewing the info here and realized that another step can be taken towards coming to a conclusion regarding the ID of these mushrooms. Perhaps I can send fragments from several (say 5-8) different samples of this mushroom to Alan and workman (whom I hope would still be interested in doing some microscopy). We then take the data recorded on each sample and run it through excel, noting whether or not the trend in the sizes from the most current samples is statistically different from the sizes of Peck's sample. Would this help?


Edited by Dishez (07/27/12 09:45 AM)


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #16598857 - 07/27/12 12:32 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Anything I say about psilocybes is purely hypothetical.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #16639746 - 08/03/12 02:46 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I'm interested.  It is good to see you back!


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Dishez]
    #16678282 - 08/10/12 08:21 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

So you have more collections?

I would be happy to sequence them.

I think you sent me a bit awhile back and the microscopy I did was inconclusive.  I could do a much better job now since I have a lot more experience with section Zapotecorum.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #16678981 - 08/10/12 10:23 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

awesome!!! great to see you back Dishez! :thumbup:


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #18505903 - 07/03/13 09:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

A couple days ago I got the chance to examine the type collection, which is on loan to the XAL herbarium from the New York Botanical Gardens. I have microscopy, however Alonso has requested that I not publicly post the micrographs until the publication of a paper he is working on.

The gills are a lighter color than I usually see in Psilocybe, however microscopic features match well with that genus.  Cystidia observed in the type collection match well with what Workman posted. 

This collection was made in November of 1911.

http://mushroomobserver.org/138461





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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #18505916 - 07/03/13 09:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Wow, such a cool find.  Over 100 years between sightings of this elusive psilocybe. :eek:


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: RiparianZoneJunky]
    #18509227 - 07/04/13 12:20 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Ya this find was epic!!!

Cool update Alan!  Thanks for sharing!  Must have been cool looking at a historical Psilocybe !!!  :rockon:


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Edited by psylosymonreturns (07/04/13 12:21 AM)


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #18510220 - 07/04/13 05:33 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Im excited to see the resulted micrographs. :super:
So little of the type collection :willynilly: We need to find more to study  :lol:


Is there anyone propigating this species. Is there any part of the collection left dishez?


--------------------
~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________

:sporedrop:                      "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen                      :sporedrop:

"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira


       


Edited by Joust (07/04/13 05:42 AM)


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Joust]
    #18510641 - 07/04/13 09:25 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

To be honest I don't remember how much this got out. I know I wasn't collecting then. But he had copywritten his pics and I don't know how much he wanted to share. Someone must have got something besides just workman!!
Bob was a spore whore then maybe he got a print?


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #18510649 - 07/04/13 09:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psylosymonreturns said:
To be honest I don't remember how much this got out. I know I wasn't collecting then. But he had copywritten his pics and I don't know how much he wanted to share. Someone must have got something besides just workman!!
Bob was a spore whore then maybe he got a print?



Your memory is good; much too good...:smoker:

No, I don't think I did...sorry.


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Re: Psilocybe Graveolens!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Bobzimmer]
    #18511492 - 07/04/13 01:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Damb too bad.  :frown:


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