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OfflineJesterian
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St. John's Wort Interactions
    #11390556 - 11/05/09 02:14 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Anyone know how St. John's wort interacts with different psychedelics? I've got some shroomies and molly waiting for the right moment, and I just began taking St. John's wort for mood stabilization.

How would St. John's wort interact with those two drugs? Or other drugs for that matter?

Thanks guys.


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With psychedelics, I've always found that less is more.


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InvisibleFoamy
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Re: St. John's Wort Interactions [Re: Jesterian]
    #11390614 - 11/05/09 02:28 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Idk how accurate this is but Wikipedia says:

Quote:

St John's wort may also contribute to serotonin syndrome in combination with other drugs which may elevate 5-HT (serotonin) levels in the central nervous system (CNS).




To be on the safe side maybe you should just not take the St. Johns wort for a few days then dose.


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Offlinegcboyallday
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Re: St. John's Wort Interactions [Re: Jesterian]
    #11390621 - 11/05/09 02:29 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

prolly good for the shrooms..BAD for the mdma


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Offlinegcboyallday
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Re: St. John's Wort Interactions [Re: gcboyallday]
    #11390626 - 11/05/09 02:30 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

i heard maoi's intensify a shroom trip...mdma doesnt even work if you take it on an maoi


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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: St. John's Wort Interactions [Re: Jesterian]
    #11390647 - 11/05/09 02:34 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

St Johns Wort is an SSRI and a decently effective one at that.

SSRI's can inhibit a trip but the degree that St Johns Wort does this could be debated. Some claim St Johns Wort is a mild MAOI which would actually potentiate psychedelics.

SSRI's can also inhibit MDMA. A theory suggest that MDMA gets access to the serotonin vesicles by entering through the Re-Uptake valves that SSRI's close off.

St Johns Wort is an effective SSRI but may not effect the brain in the same way prescription strength SSRI's do.

Some may try to claim the risk of 'serotonin syndrome' if you mix MDMA and St Johns Wort but in all honestly you are likely to feel the Molly less then you would have a dangerous reaction. 

To be safe it would be a very wise idea to discontinue your St Johns Wort for a few days before you take the MDMA.

The trick, though, would be starting the St Johns Wort again as you are coming down off the MDMA.

Have an SSRI in your brain once you comedown from Extacy will limit the amount of MAO that gets access to neurons to oxidize them.

MAO usually breaks down the serotonin in the synapse. When the serotonin is depleted after taking Ex, the MAO is left waiting to oxidize something.

The MAO also enters through the 'Re-uptake valve' and causes oxidation within a neuron.

Having an SSRI (Reuptake Inhibitor) in your system as soon as you are coming down off MDMA will limit this MAO reuptake and the subsequent oxidative stress to the brain.

All in all just be careful with your dose, take normal amounts. Don't try an epic Molly trip unless you have stopped taking your Wort for at least a week.


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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: St. John's Wort Interactions [Re: gcboyallday]
    #11390651 - 11/05/09 02:34 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

gcboyallday said:
mdma doesnt even work if you take it on an maoi




Yes, it will.

And it can very easily kill you on any kind of strong MAOI.

It is SSRI that makes MDMA inactive, not MAOI.


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Offlinegcboyallday
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Re: St. John's Wort Interactions [Re: CosmicLion]
    #11390712 - 11/05/09 02:51 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

CosmicLion said:
Quote:

gcboyallday said:
mdma doesnt even work if you take it on an maoi




Yes, it will.

And it can very easily kill you on any kind of strong MAOI.

It is SSRI that makes MDMA inactive, not MAOI.



well my friend takes maoi's daily for depression and he took a bomb roll and he didnt feel it..he said he felt a little something but it was in no way an "experience"


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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: St. John's Wort Interactions [Re: gcboyallday]
    #11390787 - 11/05/09 03:06 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

gcboyallday said:
well my friend takes maoi's daily for depression and he took a bomb roll and he didnt feel it..he said he felt a little something but it was in no way an "experience"




What MAOI is he taking? Most doctors don't put someone, especially a younger someone, on an MAOI unless its a pretty serious case and they are very unresponsive after exhausting a huge list of safer medications.

Prescription MAOI's require users to radically alter their diet and lifestyle to avoid dangerous food & drug interactions. Does this sound like your friend?


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Offlinegcboyallday
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Re: St. John's Wort Interactions [Re: CosmicLion]
    #11393113 - 11/05/09 08:44 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

CosmicLion said:
Quote:

gcboyallday said:
well my friend takes maoi's daily for depression and he took a bomb roll and he didnt feel it..he said he felt a little something but it was in no way an "experience"




What MAOI is he taking? Most doctors don't put someone, especially a younger someone, on an MAOI unless its a pretty serious case and they are very unresponsive after exhausting a huge list of safer medications.

Prescription MAOI's require users to radically alter their diet and lifestyle to avoid dangerous food & drug interactions. Does this sound like your friend?



yes but he doesnt care about taking precautions..he's not very smart. he takes zoloft


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Invisiblefushock
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Re: St. John's Wort Interactions [Re: Jesterian]
    #11394015 - 11/05/09 10:50 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

and I just began taking St. John's wort for mood stabilization.




From my understanding, St. John's wort is not a mood stabilizer. Its a mood enhancer. I don't think you should be taking it if you want stabilization, it probably will have an opposite effect.


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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: St. John's Wort Interactions [Re: gcboyallday]
    #11396233 - 11/06/09 09:29 AM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

CosmicLion said:
What MAOI is he taking?




Quote:

gcboyallday said:
yes but he doesnt care about taking precautions..he's not very smart. he takes zoloft




Quote:

Sertraline hydrochloride (trade names Zoloft, Lustral) is an antidepressant of the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) class.




You fail, Zoloft is an SSRI.

MAOI + MDMA = Life Threatening

MAOI + SSRI = Life Threatening

If he is taking Zoloft he is not on an MAOI, make sure you facts are straight before you start passively implying the notion that people safely mix these drugs. You claimed your friend took a combination that will kill most people. That;s not even what happened, you had your facts wrong. It is NEVER ok to mix any stimulants with an MAOI.

Your friend is on an SSRI. People mix MDMA with SSRI all the time and the result is often the same, they don't feel the Extacy.

I know MAOI and SSRI are funny words that look the same to a lot of people but one bad interaction with these drugs can easily kill you.


--------------------
:peace:    :peace:

  Earth's Essence


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OfflineJesterian
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Re: St. John's Wort Interactions [Re: CosmicLion]
    #11397989 - 11/06/09 02:50 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

CosmicLion said:
St Johns Wort is an SSRI and a decently effective one at that.

SSRI's can inhibit a trip but the degree that St Johns Wort does this could be debated. Some claim St Johns Wort is a mild MAOI which would actually potentiate psychedelics.

SSRI's can also inhibit MDMA. A theory suggest that MDMA gets access to the serotonin vesicles by entering through the Re-Uptake valves that SSRI's close off.

St Johns Wort is an effective SSRI but may not effect the brain in the same way prescription strength SSRI's do.

Some may try to claim the risk of 'serotonin syndrome' if you mix MDMA and St Johns Wort but in all honestly you are likely to feel the Molly less then you would have a dangerous reaction. 

To be safe it would be a very wise idea to discontinue your St Johns Wort for a few days before you take the MDMA.

The trick, though, would be starting the St Johns Wort again as you are coming down off the MDMA.

Have an SSRI in your brain once you comedown from Extacy will limit the amount of MAO that gets access to neurons to oxidize them.

MAO usually breaks down the serotonin in the synapse. When the serotonin is depleted after taking Ex, the MAO is left waiting to oxidize something.

The MAO also enters through the 'Re-uptake valve' and causes oxidation within a neuron.

Having an SSRI (Reuptake Inhibitor) in your system as soon as you are coming down off MDMA will limit this MAO reuptake and the subsequent oxidative stress to the brain.

All in all just be careful with your dose, take normal amounts. Don't try an epic Molly trip unless you have stopped taking your Wort for at least a week.




Thanks for all the info man! So I took 300mg of st john's wort, my third day taking it, yesterday morning, and none since. Should I be ok to do some mushies at like 10-11pm tonight? I haven't taken any since.

Gonna leave the molly and make sure I'm off the wort for at least a week before trying that one.


--------------------
With psychedelics, I've always found that less is more.


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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: St. John's Wort Interactions [Re: Jesterian]
    #11398028 - 11/06/09 02:55 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

I would think that eating the mushrooms would be ok. At worst, slightly diminished.

I don't know how the wort builds up in your system but after just 3 days of use I would imagine the side effects would be minimal.


--------------------
:peace:    :peace:

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