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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: LuSiD9]
    #11393292 - 11/05/09 07:08 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, there's a few more folk I'd like to hear from.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLuSiD9
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
    #11393302 - 11/05/09 07:11 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Seems nihilism has a lot of differing definitions. Lets see what we can come up with that works for us that see it as a valuable philosophy.




--------------------
Nothing is true, everything is permissible.

Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: rebus_minus]
    #11393306 - 11/05/09 07:12 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

rebus_minus said:
You're asking if we will be able to handle the freedom it is that nothing matters?

What could be easier?




For most people anything could be easier. For most people, everything has to matter. Take a good look around.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBrainChemistry
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
    #11393379 - 11/05/09 07:24 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I think to be a true Nihilist, one has to already have a strong sense of their own desires.

In order to throw away all of the societies morals, traditions, beliefs, conditions, culture....one could do nothing if they threw all of this away and did not have a strong sense of self. Once you see that you are entirely insignificant, how can there be action unless you are attempting to assert significance?

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

rebus_minus said:
You're asking if we will be able to handle the freedom it is that nothing matters?

What could be easier?




For most people anything could be easier. For most people, everything has to matter. Take a good look around.




I totally agree. People think they are free, or say they want to be free. But they aren't even thinking for themselves. They are letting someone else do the thinking for them. They haven't even tasted their own freedom.

If they knew what freedom truly was, they would stop in their tracks and realize how much wool has been pulled over their eyes.

Also on a separate point, I think modern communication has served to make most people somewhat of a nihilist. Or at least, there are the "popular" nihilists who simply think its cool to rebel and say fuck the government.


--------------------
Word to your mom.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #11393427 - 11/05/09 07:32 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Once you see that you are entirely insignificant, how can there be action unless you are attempting to assert significance?


Right, you make your own meaning as best you can.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBrainChemistry
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
    #11393443 - 11/05/09 07:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

So....what if when you realize that all morals are baseless. You attempt to rebuild everything from scratch yourself.

What if you then find that your "own" morals agree with the morals of society.

Are you still Nihilist?


--------------------
Word to your mom.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
    #11393461 - 11/05/09 07:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I agree nihilistic hedonism is where it's at, but this doesn't really tell us anything significant except to elucidate the definition of happiness as a desirable state.  What exactly makes you happy?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #11393472 - 11/05/09 07:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Sure some of my personal ethics align with cultural moral values and wtf, I might just be a nihilist.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBrainChemistry
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
    #11393489 - 11/05/09 07:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Sure some of my personal ethics align with cultural moral values and wtf, I might just be a nihilist.:lol:




Ok then, so how can you tell a Nihilist from a non-Nihilist. If a Nihilist can be someone who agrees with cultural moral values, that would then go against your definition.

It would seem then, to me, that a Nihilist must not only be someone who rejects moral values, but also someone who's "own" self-defined moral values DO NOT agree with cultural moral values in anyway.


--------------------
Word to your mom.


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OfflineLuSiD9
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #11393492 - 11/05/09 07:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I became a nihilist the day I comprehended how small we are compared to the universe and all that... I was like 7-8

completley insignificant in the big picture... disturbing thoughts for a child

I've never got over it

and I'm glad


reading books on space and shit, that's what did it


--------------------
Nothing is true, everything is permissible.

Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: LuSiD9]
    #11393501 - 11/05/09 07:42 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Also, I find nihilism by itself to be a self-defeating philosophy.  Existentialism is where it's at; a true nihilist would have to agree that nihilism itself has no value.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineLuSiD9
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
    #11393511 - 11/05/09 07:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
What exactly makes you happy?




pleasure


--------------------
Nothing is true, everything is permissible.

Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #11393525 - 11/05/09 07:44 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BrainChemistry said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Sure some of my personal ethics align with cultural moral values and wtf, I might just be a nihilist.:lol:




Ok then, so how can you tell a Nihilist from a non-Nihilist. If a Nihilist can be someone who agrees with cultural moral values, that would then go against your definition.



It would seem then, to me, that a Nihilist must not only be someone who rejects moral values, but also someone who's "own" self-defined moral values DO NOT agree with cultural moral values in anyway.




I don't see why. Maybe you need to read over this thread. Your answer lies there.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: LuSiD9]
    #11393526 - 11/05/09 07:45 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I tried the pleasure route in excess... didn't make me happy.  A life filled with moderate pleasures would be happier than a life without, certainly, but I find the pursuit of knowledge to ultimately be more fulfilling than sheer pleasure.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
    #11393541 - 11/05/09 07:46 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Also, I find nihilism by itself to be a self-defeating philosophy.  Existentialism is where it's at; a true nihilist would have to agree that nihilism itself has no value.





Existentialism is not in opposition to nihilism. Maybe you need to read over this thread also as this has been discussed.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: deCypher]
    #11393559 - 11/05/09 07:48 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
I tried the pleasure route in excess... didn't make me happy.  A life filled with moderate pleasures would be happier than a life without, certainly, but I find the pursuit of knowledge to ultimately be more fulfilling than sheer pleasure.




I don't think you understand the concept of pleasure. Pleasure would only make one happy. As in, for you, the pursuit of knowledge.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
    #11393611 - 11/05/09 07:55 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Existentialism is not in opposition to nihilism. Maybe you need to read over this thread also as this has been discussed.




Existentialism is the next logical progression from a nihilistic worldview IMO, but isn't necessarily in opposition to it.  Like I said, though, I believe true nihilism to be logically contradictory.

Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't think you understand the concept of pleasure. Pleasure would only make one happy. As in, for you, the pursuit of knowledge.




Are you defining anything that would make you happy as being pleasurable?  Going through eight hours of an excruciating workout to get in shape would make me happy, but I wouldn't say that the experience itself was pleasurable...  To me, pleasure is more of a bodily sensation like that accrued by doing recreational drugs or having an orgasm, whereas happiness is more subtle.  Things get complicated when you consider such mental pleasures as contemplating philosophy, for instance, but I disagree that a life solely devoted to pleasure would necessarily make you happy.  Sometimes pain can be a good thing.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineBrainChemistry
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
    #11393619 - 11/05/09 07:55 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

BrainChemistry said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Sure some of my personal ethics align with cultural moral values and wtf, I might just be a nihilist.:lol:




Ok then, so how can you tell a Nihilist from a non-Nihilist. If a Nihilist can be someone who agrees with cultural moral values, that would then go against your definition.



It would seem then, to me, that a Nihilist must not only be someone who rejects moral values, but also someone who's "own" self-defined moral values DO NOT agree with cultural moral values in anyway.




I don't see why. Maybe you need to read over this thread. Your answer lies there.




Ok then well let me just ask: How would you tell a Nihilist from a non-Nihilist, if both people seemed to agree with cultural values and followed the cultural mentality?

Would the Nihilist not just be deluding himself?


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Word to your mom.


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OfflineLuSiD9
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: Icelander]
    #11393628 - 11/05/09 07:56 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
I tried the pleasure route in excess... didn't make me happy.  A life filled with moderate pleasures would be happier than a life without, certainly, but I find the pursuit of knowledge to ultimately be more fulfilling than sheer pleasure.




I don't think you understand the concept of pleasure. Pleasure would only make one happy. As in, for you, the pursuit of knowledge.




beat me to it :wink:


--------------------
Nothing is true, everything is permissible.

Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: THE NIHILISM THREAD. [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #11393657 - 11/05/09 08:01 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

That's easy. A nihilist knows that all morals are meaningless. He chooses whatever makes him happy knowing that also is ultimately meaningless. He chooses to have personal ethics because they make him or her feel good. Not because they are "right or wrong".


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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