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Offlinezappaisgod
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Homos left at the altar yet again
    #11385151 - 11/04/09 05:42 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

It can't just be reactionary lunatics.  Same sex marriage gets slammed in Maine as well as California, not exactly Conservative bastions.  Make no mistake, I do not give two shits about this and think government's only involvement should be as a court to adjudicate over the dissolution of a marriage contract but this is a pretty clear repudiation.  I do not for one minute understand what their problem is but the will of the people is pretty undeniable.


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InvisibleFlop Johnson
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11385181 - 11/04/09 05:46 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I think gay marriage might be conceptually identified with flamboyance to the masses. And while most people don't really have a problem with gays - they tend to be put off by in-your-face homosexuality. :shrug: Just a thought.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11385250 - 11/04/09 05:55 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I saw that today, but didn't get the details. They still can get civil unions, right?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: Redstorm]
    #11385304 - 11/04/09 06:02 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know.  I think so.  I think that's what all marriage contracts should be.  Any further government involvement is an intrusion in a private matter.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11389380 - 11/05/09 09:10 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

its a religious matter executed by the government.  sad to see and frankly makes little sense to ban such a simple freedom.


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OfflineDeltron3030
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: kadakuda]
    #11389608 - 11/05/09 10:40 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

when will we learn? we pulled this shit with interracial couples and look back on that as a dark time in our history.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: kadakuda]
    #11389960 - 11/05/09 12:19 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

kadakuda said:
its a religious matter executed by the government.  sad to see and frankly makes little sense to ban such a simple freedom.



Ummmm, you can't blame the government for this.  It's the will of the people.


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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11391692 - 11/05/09 05:22 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

The will of the people does not override the constitution, and Im not sure why this doesn't violate equal protection.  I get that they offer civil unions to try and appease the constitution, but the seperate but equal thing is eh


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11392288 - 11/05/09 06:52 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It can't just be reactionary lunatics.  Same sex marriage gets slammed in Maine as well as California, not exactly Conservative bastions.  Make no mistake, I do not give two shits about this and think government's only involvement should be as a court to adjudicate over the dissolution of a marriage contract but this is a pretty clear repudiation.  I do not for one minute understand what their problem is but the will of the people is pretty undeniable.




Well.

Two relatively (too?) simple explanations are that the California vote coincided with the election of Obama, and the higher proportional turn-out of black voters led to the defeat of the legislation there.  Blacks are, after all, proven to be less sympathetic to the idea of equal rights for homosexuals than those of other ethnic groups.

And the recent Maine vote came during the first major elections since the Obama victory last year, and the Republicans have their base running terrified to the polls to vote against the Dems.  And it's commonly known that all Republicans hate fags.

This is my explanation, anyway.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: Chespirito]
    #11392736 - 11/05/09 08:00 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I don't see an equal protection issue here.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #11392788 - 11/05/09 08:05 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe.  Are you saying that Negroes are anti-civil rights when it isn't their civil rights? 








Because I think you're right.  Maine?  I dunno.  Consider the Republicans had no stake there and then consider who their Senators are.  Don't you think that the homobase would be energized enough on their own?


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Offlinenootropic
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11394359 - 11/05/09 11:38 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

we ought to eliminate marriage. thus eliminating the gay marriage issues. thus eliminating divorce. thus enabling orgy porgies (which i am extremely fond of).

but really, i don't get what the big deal about marriage is. seems like another idiotic issue spawned by arbitrary religious hustlers pushing their ideas on us. what ever happened to love? the rings, dresses, party, ceremony, etc. isn't it all just another business ploy?


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[quote]Oweyervishice said:
[quote]Icelander said:
What is at the bottom of it?[/quote]

Death anxiety? :flirt:[/quote]


Edited by nootropic (11/05/09 11:39 PM)


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: nootropic]
    #11394477 - 11/05/09 11:55 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

but really, i don't get what the big deal about marriage is. seems like another idiotic issue spawned by arbitrary religious hustlers pushing their ideas on us. what ever happened to love? the rings, dresses, party, ceremony, etc. isn't it all just another business ploy?




yup, but trying to get the wife to think like that is a totally a whole other story.....if she agrees, hang on tight to that one!


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11396901 - 11/06/09 12:14 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Maybe.  Are you saying that Negroes are anti-civil rights when it isn't their civil rights? 




I think that pretty much applies to a large majority of the population in the US. Maybe not rabidly opposed to others' civil rights (like many blacks are to homosexuality), but certainly disinterested at best.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11405307 - 11/07/09 04:26 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

kadakuda said:
its a religious matter executed by the government.  sad to see and frankly makes little sense to ban such a simple freedom.



Ummmm, you can't blame the government for this.  It's the will of the people.




sorry, not up on my US law, but isn't the gov in charge of legal unions?  or is it the church (which are, some of, the people)?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: kadakuda]
    #11405342 - 11/07/09 04:31 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

The people keep turning it down in direct referendums.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11405393 - 11/07/09 04:38 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

what people?  seems a very limited number of places (governments) have even allowed such choices for the people to decide on.  still seems like it is government controlled to me, or am i missing something (i know about the very few attempts at allowing it and the public saying no, again very small portion of the people there)?

seems much like letting  jewish people dictate how a muslim may or may not marry (for example), but that is a different topic i suppose.

although i like the idea of those couple places allowing a vote on something, is this really the kind of thing people even need to vote on?  stopping prejudice?  seems pretty retarded....maybe voting on more important things like war, economy, and things that really affect the people voting, not whether butt fucking or scissoring is acceptable as a legal marriage or not.

strikes me as very strange and backwards thinking is all :shrug:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: kadakuda]
    #11405620 - 11/07/09 05:16 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

There were public referendums in Maine and California, at least.  California!  The people said "No".  This isn't being imposed by the "government", it is being imposed by the People.  Don't blame some nebulous notion of "the government".  They aren't the ones cramming an unpopular issue down our throats, unlike Pelosicare.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11409501 - 11/08/09 06:53 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

i don't feel 2 states represent the people.  other states dont even have such choices.  are the people saying they dont want ta say in the other states? 

in your opinion, or anyone else's, is a persons right to get married really the decision of the state (be it the majority or the gov...which should be the same thing but obviously isnt)?

what if they held a vote whether whites can marry blacks, would that be so widely asccepted as well? 

its wrong to classify 2 people who love each different from any otehr 2.  if it were race, we would call racist...they strip the freedoms of both gay man and women, so perhaps sexist isn't the word...its no ones right to dictate  otehr peoples freedoms in my books.  and 2 states allowing a vote (pathetic) is hardly what i call the people.  if i was gay i would be absolutely pissed right off at -whoever- is trampling my rights as a human being in that country.

as i said before its religion, or personal closed mindedness perhaps is better, executed by the government.  the gov says yes or no, the vote in -2- states was just put on to entertain the public.  the gov still says yay or nay and signs the papers, that is what the gov is for.  writing the laws of the land...whether we get a say or not is the issue for some.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Homos left at the altar yet again [Re: kadakuda]
    #11410843 - 11/08/09 02:04 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

kadakuda said:
i don't feel 2 states represent the people. 




Those two states represent the people in those two states.

Nobody else.

That is the claim.

That in those two states the people are imposing laws on the homosexual population, rather than the "government".

Nobody is claiming otherwise.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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