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Offlineastronaut
ascetic aesthetic
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Registered: 09/11/07
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we did not evolve to see the world as it is
    #11380531 - 11/04/09 12:16 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

only to see it as it is insofar as our survival would require.


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In another Time's Forgotten Space, your Eyes looked through your Mother's Face:
Wildflower Seed on the Sand and Stone, may the Four Winds blow you Safely Home!


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InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: we did not evolve to see the world as it is [Re: astronaut]
    #11380646 - 11/04/09 12:37 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

True, but...

Subjective realities are still 'real'; my viewpoint does exist and so I am the world as it is, at least partially.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,079
Re: we did not evolve to see the world as it is [Re: astronaut]
    #11380687 - 11/04/09 12:43 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

It would be pretty weird if survival required seeing the world as is isnt.  More likely I think is that we evolved to see the world as it is, but only in part - not in entirety.


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Offlineastronaut
ascetic aesthetic
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Registered: 09/11/07
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Re: we did not evolve to see the world as it is [Re: DieCommie]
    #11380741 - 11/04/09 12:50 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Yes. There is no selective mechanism that would favor seeing the world in its unadulterated entirety. What is selected for, in the broadest terms, is the perception of resources and of hazards. These represent a subset of reality.


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In another Time's Forgotten Space, your Eyes looked through your Mother's Face:
Wildflower Seed on the Sand and Stone, may the Four Winds blow you Safely Home!


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: we did not evolve to see the world as it is [Re: astronaut]
    #11381018 - 11/04/09 01:49 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

These represent a subset of reality.




An assumption, but not a crazy one.  So what of it?  Use the subset to its fullest right, and gleam what we can from it.


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Registered: 10/05/08
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Re: we did not evolve to see the world as it is [Re: DieCommie]
    #11381387 - 11/04/09 03:34 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

What I would like to understand is the evolutionary advantage of seeing beauty in anything other than a fit mate? even then, attraction is surely enough.. why the sensation of beauty? what is beauty? Why art? why any of it? who did it help, and how did it help them?


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InvisiblesuiM
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Re: we did not evolve to see the world as it is [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11381425 - 11/04/09 03:46 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

well beauty is just an abstract representation of attraction, so because of the ability for us to think i an abstract way we can through association apply emotions to things other than a potential mate.


It is important to our survival because without the ability to think in an abstract manner we would not have built up the knowledge that human society used to progress.


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"There is never a wrong note, bend it."
Jimi Hendrix


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: we did not evolve to see the world as it is [Re: sui]
    #11381436 - 11/04/09 03:52 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

"Goethe once said that the difference between a beautiful woman and a pretty woman is that the beautiful woman has a touch of the bizarre. And that has to do with creativity, creativity always has a touch of the bizarre. Creatitvity is the unusual combination, it's what you don't expect." - Robert Anton Wilson

Seen like that, the advantages are many.


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: we did not evolve to see the world as it is [Re: sui]
    #11381447 - 11/04/09 03:56 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

no one wants to fuck a beautiful building, they simply enjoy looking at it. if anything, it is drawing their resources away from survival and towards pointless glitches in the way they see the world.
I do not think beauty is an abstraction of our sexual urges... my distinction between beauty and sexual attractiveness, tries to make this point.
Not only this, but a very specific module is applied to perception of human forms, and this specific module would supposedly develop in order to detect beneficial features in potential mates. So how could this specific module end up finding 'beauty' in all kinds of other shapes that have nothing to do with the form of the human body?

(... or do they?)


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,079
Re: we did not evolve to see the world as it is [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11382189 - 11/04/09 10:22 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Not every evolved trait need have a purpose.  Some are just along for the ride, like the male nipple.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Registered: 06/16/08
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Re: we did not evolve to see the world as it is [Re: DieCommie]
    #11382430 - 11/04/09 11:24 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I'd have to suspend my belief of this. I do not yet know if my desire for things depends on my attraction towards pleasure or survival. Its difficult to say - I mean look at homosexual tendincies in animals. I think it is a long shot to say that we are driven to find a mate when some are not driven at all to find mates...if all else, pleasure.

I do agree that survival in a sense is driving us, in certain circumstances.

The only difficulty with assessing whether it is pleasure or survival is that they are bound together indefinitely. Ie. Survival allows for sexual pleasure. It is pleasurable to breath, to eat, to consume.

I think that it might be that pleasure is what drives humans and suicide/drugs are a perfect example of why this would be the situation in our motivations.

It may also explain why we risk our lives for people. It just wouldn't be worth it to live without them, so might as well give it a shot.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: we did not evolve to see the world as it is [Re: DieCommie]
    #11382656 - 11/04/09 12:08 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Not every evolved trait need have a purpose.  Some are just along for the ride, like the male nipple.




I really don't think that is a good example. all mammals have nipples.. and everyone has genes to grow breasts, but genes in the y chromasome lead to inhibition of the growth of breasts.

This is different to a sense that is found in full in everyone and is found in no other creatures and serves a purpose to no other life form... unlike the nipple which is clearly important for any mammalian species.


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: we did not evolve to see the world as it is [Re: astronaut]
    #11382661 - 11/04/09 12:08 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

astronaut said:
only to see it as it is insofar as our survival would require.



How then are we seeing the world different?


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