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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
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Appreciate philosophy.
    #11380504 - 11/04/09 12:11 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I have always thought of philosophy as a general endeavor, but only recently has that become something mundane rather than a flirtation with universality.

I am wondering if a particular kind of understanding suits me better. If philosophy is not "everything I do" but some thing in particular, is there something wrong with this? While I appreciate philosophy more than I have before, lately I'm not so keen on "doing" it. I enjoy reading, taking my notes, and even shaping them to an extent, but not so far as they make a comprehensible expression. You may have noticed this.

Is it still philosophy if we just soak it in?Part of me sincerely believes that philosophy is essentially an inward path, finally, a modesty that precedes expressions/action.

So the question, my fellow shroomers, is whether we can approach philosophy intrinsically, or does true philosophy require a more outward role?

Don't misunderstand me though, I don't at all mean that we could avoid the criterion of living by our philosophy; as in any case this is something that I believe "makes" the person. If such pragmatic view must come into focus, I am describing an interval, precedence of philosophy to action.

Further I want to share something I've been reading (and just so pondering)

Quote:

The artist is the creator of beautiful things.

To reveal art and conceal the artist is art's aim.

The critic is he who can translate into another manner or a new material his impression of beautiful things.

The highest as the lowest form of criticism is a mode of autobiography. Those who find ugly meanings in beautiful things are corrupt without being charming.

This is a fault.

Those who find beautiful meanings in beautiful things are the cultivated. For these there is hope.

They are the elect to whom beautiful things mean only beauty.

There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written, or badly written.

That is all.

The nineteenth century dislike of realism is the rage of Caliban seeing his own face in a glass.

The nineteenth century dislike of romanticism is the rage of Caliban not seeing his own face in a glass.

The moral life of man forms part of the subject-matter of the artist, but the morality of art consists in the perfect use of an imperfect medium. No artist desires to prove anything. Even things that are true can be proved.

No artist has ethical sympathies.

An ethical sympathy in an artist is an unpardonable mannerism of style. No artist is ever morbid. The artist can express everything.

Thought and language are to the artist instruments of an art.

Vice and virtue are to the artist materials for an art.

From the point of view of form, the type of all the arts is the art of the musician.

From the point of view of feeling, the actor's craft is the type.

All art is at once surface and symbol.

Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril.

Those who read the symbol do so at their peril.

It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors.

Diversity of opinion about a work of art shows that the work is new, complex, and vital.

When critics disagree, the artist is in accord with himself.

We can forgive a man for making a useful thing as long as he does not admire it. The only excuse for making a useless thing is that one admires it intensely.

All art is quite useless.





--------------------
Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
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Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: daytripper23]
    #11380571 - 11/04/09 12:24 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Now see, to put this in practical terms, I was sort of just wondering if it fits the "philosophical format" to raise a text up for discussion; indeed, on a pedestal as such, but in the same sense, in its own light?

It seems fitting at the moment among the pretext for "mediums" and "formats" of philosophy, but what about really letting texts stand in their own light, without introductions or commentary? Can I simply beseech the more active body of philosophy for its commentary, or is necessary of true philosophy to be somehow, if only partially colored by (self) expression?

- I should have at least mentioned who wrote that btw:

(What do you think of Oscar Wilde here?)


--------------------
Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!


Edited by daytripper23 (11/04/09 12:58 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: daytripper23]
    #11380892 - 11/04/09 01:18 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

This post is a lot for my brain to handle tonight. I just watched "Revolutionary Road" and I'm feeling quite depressed. It was the story of my mother and father in many ways and thus my story also. Maybe the story of this time.

Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril.

Those who read the symbol do so at their peril.


True enough for me now. But once in you have to continue.( "Ever deeper into sin" -Steppenwolf.)

I would like to sleep for a month now.

I'll try to tackle this post tomorrow.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/04/09 01:19 AM)


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: daytripper23]
    #11380930 - 11/04/09 01:26 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I believe it is good to stretch the mind through soaking in expansive mental landscapes even if it is "without purpose". I also believe the quotes stand on their own and I sometimes dislike when people demand they be commented on or explained or debated instead of just being marvelled at, taken in and/or left as sown seeds to later spawn insights, revelations and combined formations.

Someone ones said that the beauty of art was its intrinsic meaninglessness and how it was for its own sake and I found those words beautiful.

I love doing things for their own sake and nothing needs to be defended.


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: daytripper23]
    #11381596 - 11/04/09 05:28 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Implicitly, philosophy is always a question of method.

I hear ya. I've had the same problems to solve. Or maybe I'm always goinging through this. I am something, my relationship to philosophy is something, then someone, another philosopher, perhaps a professional philosopher, reminds me of what they think I am... Their method wants to exclude mine/me.

The intrinsic approach is why many are drawn to philosophy. The outward approach is what we pay Oxford a load of money to turn us into.


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: daytripper23]
    #11381605 - 11/04/09 05:35 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Now see, to put this in practical terms, I was sort of just wondering if it fits the "philosophical format" to raise a text up for discussion; indeed, on a pedestal as such, but in the same sense, in its own light?

It seems fitting at the moment among the pretext for "mediums" and "formats" of philosophy, but what about really letting texts stand in their own light, without introductions or commentary? Can I simply beseech the more active body of philosophy for its commentary, or is necessary of true philosophy to be somehow, if only partially colored by (self) expression?

- I should have at least mentioned who wrote that btw:

(What do you think of Oscar Wilde here?)




One thing professional philosophers and idea historians often to do wrong, is to read the text as part of some time/place.

This is important in understanding the history of thought and trends, but if we do only this, we are no longer able to read the texts as texts themselves, which I think is what a lot of us did before we studied at the university (regardless whether we continued with science, social sciences or humanities). Like you say, read and ruminate without introductions or commentaries. You are drawn in and read. Make of it what comes of it.

If you think about the great philosophers up until the past Century, many of them did their best work without a professorship or after they left the university.

I still intend to read Dorian Grey.


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: rebus_minus]
    #11381613 - 11/04/09 05:39 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Offlineandrewss
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Registered: 08/17/07
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Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11382973 - 11/04/09 01:13 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

To me philosophy at its very base is something like examining oneself... sort of self psychoanalysis... and the curiousity entails a lot. Philosophy to me is part feeding off and reacting to other peoples writings but perhaps a bit more primarily an exercise of ones own creative abilities via written language. I like "philosophy" that is light hearted/humorous and more artistic.

Lakefingers, I would say it is interesting and novel to see how certain texts fit into the historical side of philosophy and imagine the historical context the text was written in, its kind of fun that way - but yes there is a flip side to that and it is important to get past that, good point...

I enjoyed some of that by Wilde, artists often seem to embody that jesting spirit of throwing stuff out there and I think I would call that "earthy philosophy" :lol:

Quote:

Who was right Socrates or Nietzsche? Is the unexamined life not worth living? Or is the most beautiful life one not reflected on? Where is the middle ground, or perhaps the irony in these statements?




:strokebeard:


--------------------
Jesus loves you.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
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Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: daytripper23]
    #11383003 - 11/04/09 01:17 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

If philosophy is "real" how can one not soak in it?

We all have to answer our own questions and the variables depend on experience.

I myself never went to university and grade school and high school was a wash because of anxiety issues.

Soaking in it is all I am capable of.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/04/09 01:17 PM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: Icelander]
    #11383102 - 11/04/09 01:32 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Soaking in it is all I am capable of.




Is that you, Madge?


--------------------


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: Icelander]
    #11384269 - 11/04/09 04:03 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

andrewss said:
To me philosophy at its very base is something like examining oneself... sort of self psychoanalysis... and the curiousity entails a lot. Philosophy to me is part feeding off and reacting to other peoples writings but perhaps a bit more primarily an exercise of ones own creative abilities via written language. I like "philosophy" that is light hearted/humorous and more artistic.

Lakefingers, I would say it is interesting and novel to see how certain texts fit into the historical side of philosophy and imagine the historical context the text was written in, its kind of fun that way - but yes there is a flip side to that and it is important to get past that, good point...

I enjoyed some of that by Wilde, artists often seem to embody that jesting spirit of throwing stuff out there and I think I would call that "earthy philosophy" :lol:

Quote:

Who was right Socrates or Nietzsche? Is the unexamined life not worth living? Or is the most beautiful life one not reflected on? Where is the middle ground, or perhaps the irony in these statements?




:strokebeard:




Quote:

Icelander said:
If philosophy is "real" how can one not soak in it?

We all have to answer our own questions and the variables depend on experience.

I myself never went to university and grade school and high school was a wash because of anxiety issues.

Soaking in it is all I am capable of.




Good thread.


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: Icelander]
    #11386673 - 11/04/09 08:59 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
If philosophy is "real" how can one not soak in it?

We all have to answer our own questions and the variables depend on experience.

I myself never went to university and grade school and high school was a wash because of anxiety issues.

Soaking in it is all I am capable of.




Were you too busy telling your class mates that they really are just supressing their death anxiety too much to make friends?

:lol:

:sun:


--------------------
Jesus loves you.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: andrewss]
    #11386826 - 11/04/09 09:18 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I wish.

I was in a high anxiety state 24/7. My home was an abusive insane asylum.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/04/09 09:18 PM)


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: Icelander]
    #11386999 - 11/04/09 09:40 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Abusive eh, well I guess that can mean a number of things.

My grade school years were fine IMO...

In middle school my parents sent me to a small private christian school and I graduated HS thru that school system - then even did 2 yrs of christian college. I blame that setup for some mental abuse. But then again I guess I can rightly take some blame for being too gullible... Though I am not so sure I would change those crucial things, I suspect I would be more normal which has its good/bad sides...


errrrrrr alright need to stop this hijack!


--------------------
Jesus loves you.


Edited by andrewss (11/04/09 09:41 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: andrewss]
    #11387015 - 11/04/09 09:42 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Sometimes I'm glad things turned out this way.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: Icelander]
    #11387034 - 11/04/09 09:46 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Bully for you, but the rest of us have to suffer because of it. :mad:


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Appreciate philosophy. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11387160 - 11/04/09 10:01 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

That's why I'm glad.:hellfire:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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