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OfflineGratefulgroove
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math?
    #11373524 - 11/03/09 12:39 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

what is your take on what the purpose of math is for?

like on a universal scale, sure it works but how does it fit in with things like: time and space, metaphysical/(depending on your beliefs), or a more scientifically point of view,

from how programmers can create intricate fractals using programs and code,
when you take hallucinogenics and the molecules bind to different receptor sites in your brain could that be causing some sort of mathematical function to create patterns?

is it possible it is some sort of dimension in our minds that we are only truly staring to understand?


Id love to hear your thoughts on this topic and on my understanding of it


--------------------
:sunny:Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right:sunny:


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Offlinenootropic
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Re: math? [Re: Gratefulgroove]
    #11373722 - 11/03/09 01:04 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

isn't math just a product of our perception? math is just comparison. it is relativity.


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[quote]Oweyervishice said:
[quote]Icelander said:
What is at the bottom of it?[/quote]

Death anxiety? :flirt:[/quote]


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OfflineSupreme Slammage
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Re: math? [Re: Gratefulgroove]
    #11373785 - 11/03/09 01:15 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Gratefulgroove said:
what is your take on what the purpose of math is for?

like on a universal scale, sure it works but how does it fit in with things like: time and space, metaphysical/(depending on your beliefs), or a more scientifically point of view,

from how programmers can create intricate fractals using programs and code,
when you take hallucinogenics and the molecules bind to different receptor sites in your brain could that be causing some sort of mathematical function to create patterns?

is it possible it is some sort of dimension in our minds that we are only truly staring to understand?


Id love to hear your thoughts on this topic and on my understanding of it





Math as most of us understand it is incomplete.  It is just made up because it is based off of a classical understanding of the universe.  While this understanding can predict worldly events accurately, it is very incomplete.  Quantum computation, is much more accurate to how the universe/multiverse is but it is still incomplete im sure....

this should help

&ei=I8rvSryTOZr8qAOr6vmADQ&q=david+deutsch#


--------------------
Solar Layering METHOD!!!
TO INFINITY AND BEYOND


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OfflineGratefulgroove
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Re: math? [Re: nootropic]
    #11373786 - 11/03/09 01:16 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

well you perceive through your senses, so wouldnt understanding math be making connections like how a chemist can balance chemical equations to work out,


--------------------
:sunny:Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right:sunny:


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OfflineSupreme Slammage
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Re: math? [Re: Gratefulgroove]
    #11373868 - 11/03/09 01:29 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Gratefulgroove said:
well you perceive through your senses, so wouldnt understanding math be making connections like how a chemist can balance chemical equations to work out,




No because it isn't real.  It describes some type of relationship but that relationship doesn't actually exist... Its a product of the mind.  I'm talking about classical computation and physics though... Quantum computation is more accurate. 

If u watch the video... it will make more sense!


--------------------
Solar Layering METHOD!!!
TO INFINITY AND BEYOND


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Offlinedummy
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Re: math? [Re: Gratefulgroove]
    #11373875 - 11/03/09 01:30 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

math is pretty great. it's hard to learn but it's just like any other languages. our bridges and machines are based basically on calculus. without math we wouldn't be here on the computer.


--------------------
People never seem to know what they least suspect is coming next.


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Offlinenootropic
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Re: math? [Re: Gratefulgroove]
    #11373881 - 11/03/09 01:32 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

hmmm. maybe i was unclear. math is all about conversion of perceptions into models. then comparing the models and formulating newer and more complex models.

like with most things, it starts out basic.
example: first, you see one object. next, you see two objects. comparing the two occurrences, you make the distinction there's a difference between one object and multiple objects.

then these basic observations are compiled into models/concepts. using these concepts, one can explore more abstract ideas.
example: one object + one object = two objects

then these concepts are combined, compared, derived, and etc.
essentially it's an increase in complexity. as we learn more, the concepts become more and more abstract.

i hope that makes sense.


--------------------
[quote]Oweyervishice said:
[quote]Icelander said:
What is at the bottom of it?[/quote]

Death anxiety? :flirt:[/quote]


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Offlinenootropic
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Re: math? [Re: Supreme Slammage]
    #11373902 - 11/03/09 01:35 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Supreme Slammage said:
Quote:

Gratefulgroove said:
well you perceive through your senses, so wouldnt understanding math be making connections like how a chemist can balance chemical equations to work out,




No because it isn't real.  It describes some type of relationship but that relationship doesn't actually exist... Its a product of the mind.  I'm talking about classical computation and physics though... Quantum computation is more accurate. 

If u watch the video... it will make more sense!




exactly. also, purpose is subjective...


--------------------
[quote]Oweyervishice said:
[quote]Icelander said:
What is at the bottom of it?[/quote]

Death anxiety? :flirt:[/quote]


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OfflineSupreme Slammage
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Re: math? [Re: dummy]
    #11374139 - 11/03/09 02:37 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

dummy said:
math is pretty great. it's hard to learn but it's just like any other languages. our bridges and machines are based basically on calculus. without math we wouldn't be here on the computer.





true... but although our current math works... it is not an accurate way to describe the true nature of reality...  you need to know quantum computation to do this... It is like math based on quuantum mechanical concepts.... 
&ei=Gc_vSu38EJfqqAP8j-WyDA&q=david+deutsch+&hl=en&view=2&client=firefox-a#


--------------------
Solar Layering METHOD!!!
TO INFINITY AND BEYOND


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OfflineThisfire
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Re: math? [Re: Supreme Slammage]
    #11374437 - 11/03/09 04:10 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

existence is just a big zero.



--------------------

Let your imagination fill in the blanks.
Weed, Salvia, DXM, MDMA, Speed, Azures, Cubes, Nitrous, DMT, LSD /, Peyote, Ayahuasca


Edited by Thisfire (11/03/09 04:12 AM)


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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: math? [Re: Gratefulgroove]
    #11374498 - 11/03/09 04:52 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

One of the problems with maths is that a lot of it works on the theory of perfection. Like in geometry you have the idea of a perfectly straight line and perfect squares, stuff like that. Problem is its very hard to find such perfection in nature. And even if you did find what appeared to be a perfectly straight line, it could just appear perfect according to the measuring tool you are using. People could still argue that it may not actually be perfectly straight, but we are unable to test it because as of this time our measuring instruments are only so powerful.

So as a complete understanding of the universe i think its flawed in that sense. Within the human mind these perfect coordinates can be imagined and we can make all these awesome theories because of that, the problem occurs when taking it out of the theoretical universe which exists in the human mind and comparing it to what actually exists.


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Invisiblespectralis
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Re: math? [Re: Gratefulgroove]
    #11374696 - 11/03/09 06:37 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Gratefulgroove said:
Id love to hear your thoughts on this topic and on my understanding of it



the universe is pure Logic, dreams can be total nonsense but it still makes perfect sense that impulses and interactions of nerve cells are causing you to dream the particular nonsense. When we're awake, the impuses going down the optical nerve from the eye update the same thing  we use to dream with, like a virtual reality simulation of the real world.
I think everything we experience is a series of 'if this.. then this, this or this, If this: then this etc.' processes deep inside our skulls.
We could be experiencing some things when tripping - that are not linked up to our memory, motor neuron and vocal chord to talk/ know about them.


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Offline5HTSynaptrip
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Re: math? [Re: Gratefulgroove]
    #11375121 - 11/03/09 09:34 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Math is one of our most powerful tools.  It starts with a measurement to determine a quantity that represents something in nature.  Once that has been tested repeatedly to guarantee that value is correct, it then allows the expanse of theories and the creation of models.  For instance the speed of light.  That has been calculated and things like that lead to the theory of relativity which is what all modern electromagnetic understanding is based on.  Our computers, TV's, cell phones all work based off these theories. 

I don't think it is as subjective as some are saying.  Many experiments and discoveries completed with mathematics are fact and are reality.  Imagine how we got a man into space and to the moon and back, and then accomplished the enormous feat of getting them back to earth safely.  All of that was done with math in physics before anything real took place and it worked.  i.e. "Stopping a one hundred tonne craft from a speed of 13 km per second in eighty minutes requires nearly two thousand megawatts of power."  The shuttle is intially traveling at 13km a second which is fast as fuck, something close to mach 30 I believe.  It relies almost entirely upon friction to slow down upon reentry into the Earths atmosphere and the temperature and plasma fields around the craft reach temperatures that melt steel.  All of this was known and calculated based off of mathematics and they were pretty damn accurate.

To me, most of the universe can be explained in mathematics.


--------------------


Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.



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OfflineCDClock
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Re: math? [Re: DimensionX]
    #11375141 - 11/03/09 09:42 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

DimensionX said:
One of the problems with maths is that a lot of it works on the theory of perfection. Like in geometry you have the idea of a perfectly straight line and perfect squares, stuff like that. Problem is its very hard to find such perfection in nature. And even if you did find what appeared to be a perfectly straight line, it could just appear perfect according to the measuring tool you are using. People could still argue that it may not actually be perfectly straight, but we are unable to test it because as of this time our measuring instruments are only so powerful.

So as a complete understanding of the universe i think its flawed in that sense. Within the human mind these perfect coordinates can be imagined and we can make all these awesome theories because of that, the problem occurs when taking it out of the theoretical universe which exists in the human mind and comparing it to what actually exists.





I disagree.

Yes, math in it's fundamental form deals with "perfect" figures such as straight lines and such. However, math is only really the science of numbers and the things that it can do are really incredible.

I would also argue against the statement that "perfection" is never found in nature. Nature IS perfection. It is the most beautiful representation of perfection that there is. If it weren't perfect, you and I would not be here, our planet would not have life, in fact the entire universe would probably collapse if the laws of physics were not as perfect as we were.

Our universe is so perfect and infinitely complex that we as humans cannot comprehend it all at once, so we have to break it down into different sciences.

Mathematical formulae can be applied to the way cells interact with each other, the way chemicals are reacted, almost anything.

God damn, our existence is amazing. Thinking about it is enough to bring tears to my eyes if I'm in an introspective mood :p.

Tripping just makes everything all the more amazing, too :laugh:


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InvisiblePsilocypher
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Re: math? [Re: CDClock]
    #11375483 - 11/03/09 11:15 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Maths can be used to explain pretty much everything in the universe. Our ability to use it in such a way is another question. Like a previous post said - our knowledge of math is not complete - far from it in fact. It can be used on this planet, and the more familiar area's of the universe such as vacuums, to determine the outcome of scientific experiments. But our knowledge of the laws of physics, and all it's loop-holes, is also far from incomplete - in the bigger picture.

Math is a good way of proving infinity, geometrically and numerically. Just start counting and let me know when you reach the end :smile:


--------------------


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: math? [Re: Psilocypher]
    #11375501 - 11/03/09 11:18 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

ei·π + 1 = 0

:psychsplit:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisiblePsilocypher
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Re: math? [Re: CDClock]
    #11375792 - 11/03/09 12:10 PM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

CDClock said:
I would also argue against the statement that "perfection" is never found in nature. Nature IS perfection. It is the most beautiful representation of perfection that there is. If it weren't perfect, you and I would not be here, our planet would not have life, in fact the entire universe would probably collapse if the laws of physics were not as perfect as we were.

Our universe is so perfect and infinitely complex that we as humans cannot comprehend it all at once, so we have to break it down into different sciences.




I agree with this. Just because maths is based on perfection, and we cannot truly replicate this perfection in terms of drawing/measuring perfect geometry/straight lines etc, it doesn't mean perfect geometry doesn't exist. It already exist - as an invisible blueprint. All life is based on these infinitely complex, perfect, invisible blueprints. If you know what I mean (not sure I do) :eek: :smile:


--------------------


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Offlinenootropic
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Re: math? [Re: 5HTSynaptrip]
    #11379809 - 11/03/09 10:20 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

5HTSynaptrip said:
Math is one of our most powerful tools.  It starts with a measurement to determine a quantity that represents something in nature.  Once that has been tested repeatedly to guarantee that value is correct, it then allows the expanse of theories and the creation of models.  For instance the speed of light.  That has been calculated and things like that lead to the theory of relativity which is what all modern electromagnetic understanding is based on.  Our computers, TV's, cell phones all work based off these theories. 

I don't think it is as subjective as some are saying.  Many experiments and discoveries completed with mathematics are fact and are reality.  Imagine how we got a man into space and to the moon and back, and then accomplished the enormous feat of getting them back to earth safely.  All of that was done with math in physics before anything real took place and it worked.  i.e. "Stopping a one hundred tonne craft from a speed of 13 km per second in eighty minutes requires nearly two thousand megawatts of power."  The shuttle is intially traveling at 13km a second which is fast as fuck, something close to mach 30 I believe.  It relies almost entirely upon friction to slow down upon reentry into the Earths atmosphere and the temperature and plasma fields around the craft reach temperatures that melt steel.  All of this was known and calculated based off of mathematics and they were pretty damn accurate.

To me, most of the universe can be explained in mathematics.




math is completely subjective. it is similar to language. like you said, it is a tool. the objective reality will exist with or without the invention of math.


--------------------
[quote]Oweyervishice said:
[quote]Icelander said:
What is at the bottom of it?[/quote]

Death anxiety? :flirt:[/quote]


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Offlinenootropic
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Re: math? [Re: CDClock]
    #11379847 - 11/03/09 10:24 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

CDClock said:
Quote:

DimensionX said:
One of the problems with maths is that a lot of it works on the theory of perfection. Like in geometry you have the idea of a perfectly straight line and perfect squares, stuff like that. Problem is its very hard to find such perfection in nature. And even if you did find what appeared to be a perfectly straight line, it could just appear perfect according to the measuring tool you are using. People could still argue that it may not actually be perfectly straight, but we are unable to test it because as of this time our measuring instruments are only so powerful.

So as a complete understanding of the universe i think its flawed in that sense. Within the human mind these perfect coordinates can be imagined and we can make all these awesome theories because of that, the problem occurs when taking it out of the theoretical universe which exists in the human mind and comparing it to what actually exists.





I disagree.

Yes, math in it's fundamental form deals with "perfect" figures such as straight lines and such. However, math is only really the science of numbers and the things that it can do are really incredible.

I would also argue against the statement that "perfection" is never found in nature. Nature IS perfection. It is the most beautiful representation of perfection that there is. If it weren't perfect, you and I would not be here, our planet would not have life, in fact the entire universe would probably collapse if the laws of physics were not as perfect as we were.

Our universe is so perfect and infinitely complex that we as humans cannot comprehend it all at once, so we have to break it down into different sciences.

Mathematical formulae can be applied to the way cells interact with each other, the way chemicals are reacted, almost anything.

God damn, our existence is amazing. Thinking about it is enough to bring tears to my eyes if I'm in an introspective mood :p.

Tripping just makes everything all the more amazing, too :laugh:




well stating that something is perfect is subjective in itself. "perfection" is an observation. it is dependent on the observer. i.e. the observer determines what is perfect or imperfect via comparison.

reality is not perfect or imperfect. reality is.


--------------------
[quote]Oweyervishice said:
[quote]Icelander said:
What is at the bottom of it?[/quote]

Death anxiety? :flirt:[/quote]


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OfflineAnthony917
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Re: math? [Re: nootropic]
    #11379886 - 11/03/09 10:29 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

Fuck math.


--------------------
Prisoner#1 said: I got my ass kicked by a 9yo when I was 17
Trippin? Click Me




What is life? I'm tired of life...


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Amazon Shop: Scales

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