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OfflineLogicaL Chaos
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Anyone Done a Gas Chromatography or Mass Spectrography on Their Magic Mushrooms?
    #11366600 - 11/02/09 02:38 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Hello Advanced Mycologists,

I'm curious of anyone who cultivates a magic mushroom species, (such as P. Cubenis, Pan. Cyans. or P. Azure) and has done a gas chromatography or mass spectrography (or better, both) from a biopsy of one of their mushrooms or even their mycelium. I know these machines are very expensive, so if you have used an ingenious, low-cost method of simulating these tests, I would like to hear about that too. Or, if you sent biopsy samples to a lab or have used a friend's lab, I would also be interested in hearing about those test results as. Or, you could simply mention some thread titles that have discussed this topic in the past, because I searched it and didn't find what I was looking for.

Back to basics: I'm writing this because I'm curious of all the psychoactive chemicals in various Magic Mushrooms species, but I'm also interested in the other non-psychotropic chemicals inside the mushroom, like what the skin and gills (is it just spores?) of the mushroom is chemically made of.

Thanks for advance for any interesting, detailed Gas Chrom./Mass Spect. test results.



"Knowledge is not power, its only potential power.",
~ Lo9icaL Cha0s ~


Edited by LogicaL Chaos (11/02/09 02:40 AM)


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Re: Anyone Done a Gas Chromatography or Mass Spectrography on Their Magic Mushrooms? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #11473526 - 11/17/09 02:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Gas chromatography is a big pain in the ass and is expensive.  It also can only detect psilocin (due to psilocybin being dephosphorylated at injection temps).

A better bet is HPLC, where you can actually recover your compounds of interest.  It's also a lot cheaper.


-FF


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Re: Anyone Done a Gas Chromatography or Mass Spectrography on Their Magic Mushrooms? [Re: fastfred]
    #11479913 - 11/18/09 06:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I did a paper chromatography today haha

Nowhere near this advanced, but im on my way!


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Re: Anyone Done a Gas Chromatography or Mass Spectrography on Their Magic Mushrooms? [Re: Pscientist]
    #11480524 - 11/18/09 08:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well, the way these machines work is you identify a compound by looking at little peaks on a line, and if you're putting whole mushroom cells through then you're going to have nothing but peaks. You have to know what you're looking for and try to isolate it first.

I'd first want to get a whole genome shotgun sequence for P. cubensis, and that would go a long way towards identifying the proteins. Knowing the sequence of a protein can tell you a good bit of info about its physical properties (size, charge, water solubility) and if there's anything that will bind it (antibodies, other things I won't go into) and you can use this to separate them via chromatography. Once you have a protein you can have it injected it into a rabbit to make antibodies against it, then you fluorescently label the antibodies and I guess add it to the water the fungus is in, and then shine a light on it and see what glows.

In theory. In reality, it would be prohibitively expensive to test very many proteins like this, because of the cost of generating the antibodies.

What I'd really like to do is compare the sequences of many stronger and weaker strains and species (with regard to psilocybin content obviously, which would of course require some biochemical assays), try to figure out which genes are best at increasing the content, and combine them to make a pitch-black supershroom.


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Re: Anyone Done a Gas Chromatography or Mass Spectrography on Their Magic Mushrooms? [Re: jimbotron]
    #11483627 - 11/19/09 05:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Actually you'd have to chop off a piece of whatever mushroom part you're investigating, lyse the cells in a french press (the 20,000 psi lab grade type, not the coffee making version :tongue2:) and add the antibodies to the cell extract.


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OfflineLogicaL Chaos
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Re: Anyone Done a Gas Chromatography or Mass Spectrography on Their Magic Mushrooms? [Re: fastfred]
    #11490790 - 11/20/09 05:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So HPLC would be a better choice huh? If I'm not mistaken, HPLC stands for "High-Pressure Liquid Chromatography", am I right? That seems to make sense since it only needs the mushroom material to be converted to liquid instead of a gas, like in Gas Spectrometry.

I've done a Paper Solvent Chromatography in a Chemistry Lab in college, so I'm familiar with it. I could see how it could be troublesome and tedious to do other tests as this one was quite simple test but didn't provide much quantitative data or high precision like a Gas Chrom. or Mass Spect. would.

To jimbotron

That sounds crazy with the "finding the genes that control psilocybin synthesis" idea. I wonder if any [mad] scientists are working on that right now. And that "pitch-black supershroom" sounds crazy. It boggles my imagination to think that could be possible. Its almost like a shroom nearly completely saturated of just psychoactive chemicals and the bare minimum for supporting material. Might have to dose by the milligram with such a sci-fi mushroom. I'm looking forward to the scientist who find this/these genes and engineers them for a supershroom strain.

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Re: Anyone Done a Gas Chromatography or Mass Spectrography on Their Magic Mushrooms? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #11492022 - 11/20/09 12:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yep.  The HPLC has the advantage of not destroying your test substance and separating and purifying it very well.  The output is also simple.  You just get peaks as each separated substance flows off the column.  You also have a good selection of cheap solvents you can use and it's (relatively) easy to optimize your test for the substance.


-FF


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Re: Anyone Done a Gas Chromatography or Mass Spectrography on Their Magic Mushrooms? [Re: fastfred]
    #11492045 - 11/20/09 12:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Most of us don't necessarily need the test subject back- I could spare a few samples for the sake of science.
But you're totally right.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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