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Icelander
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Roots of Nihilism?
#11362472 - 11/01/09 12:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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“Nihilism is . . . not only the belief that everything deserves to perish; but one actually puts one’s shoulder to the plough; one destroys”
What interests me in this quote is the word "deserves".
Opinions?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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andrewss
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11363664 - 11/01/09 04:08 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Seems like an odd "definition" of nihilism...
one self destructs or destroys others?
-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: andrewss]
#11363687 - 11/01/09 04:13 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well there is truth to it. But why "deserves"?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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andrewss
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11363711 - 11/01/09 04:18 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Step one of nihilism is a weariness of oneself without the desire to even create any sort of self justification, one is totally unable to see value in anything and thus I guess this self disgust would spill over into a disgust and hatred of everything else sorta like you.
-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: andrewss]
#11363716 - 11/01/09 04:21 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Is that really an accurate definition of nihilism or just your definition?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11363725 - 11/01/09 04:23 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I believe that quote was from Nietzsche
I got it here http://www.iep.utm.edu/nihilism/#H3
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (11/01/09 04:27 PM)
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andrewss
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11363783 - 11/01/09 04:33 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Is that really an accurate definition of nihilism or just your definition?
accurate definition of concepts like nihilism are pretty hard to nail down, just can maybe outline the basic tenants, though we use words like nihilism as adjectives often with different degrees of "magnitude" due to some entailment or something...
Essentially nihilism is a mentality assured there is no meaning/personal-purpose to be had in life. At least for me, brah
-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: andrewss]
#11363817 - 11/01/09 04:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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That sounds kind of freeing if one can embrace it.
One is free to believe anything they want. To create meaning knowing it's pure creation.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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andrewss
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11364913 - 11/01/09 07:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, I liked the end of that page, relates to ur above post...
Quote:
If we survived the process of destroying all interpretations of the world, we could then perhaps discover the correct course for humankind:
"I praise, I do not reproach, [nihilism's] arrival. I believe it is one of the greatest crises, a moment of the deepest self-reflection of humanity. Whether man recovers from it, whether he becomes master of this crisis, is a question of his strength. It is possible. . . . "(Complete Works Vol. 13) ~Nietzsche
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Noteworthy
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11366537 - 11/02/09 12:20 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: �Nihilism is . . . not only the belief that everything deserves to perish; but one actually puts one�s shoulder to the plough; one destroys�
What interests me in this quote is the word "deserves".
Opinions?
I think if nihilism can say anything about deservance, it is that everyone deserves everything and nothing.. that there is no standard of deservance, and so it can be said that everything deserves to perish, simply because that is what everything does, and everything gets what it deserves.
--------------------

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Life Upon Death
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theres no way of knowing where this actually originated but its generally attributed to Albert Pike:
"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."
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demiu5
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11367108 - 11/02/09 03:06 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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as far as the roots of nihilism, i think maybe it stems from indulging in indulgence, or over indulgence
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Xeny

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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: demiu5]
#11367208 - 11/02/09 03:39 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Isn't it the absence of fear towards your own personal needs, and the same absence of the means to reach these without sacrificing selfishness and personal will without boundaries?
-------------------- Ik hou van je While you're still sleeping the saints are still weepin' cause things you call dead haven't yet had the chance to be born. -Scatman John
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Icelander
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Quote:
Noteworthy said:
Quote:
Icelander said: �Nihilism is . . . not only the belief that everything deserves to perish; but one actually puts one�s shoulder to the plough; one destroys�
What interests me in this quote is the word "deserves".
Opinions?
I think if nihilism can say anything about deservance, it is that everyone deserves everything and nothing.. that there is no standard of deservance, and so it can be said that everything deserves to perish, simply because that is what everything does, and everything gets what it deserves.
That makes sense to me.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Quote:
Life Upon Death said: theres no way of knowing where this actually originated but its generally attributed to Albert Pike:
"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion�We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."
That's funny. This person IMO has very little understanding of human psychology. Especially his own.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11369136 - 11/02/09 01:06 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: �Nihilism is . . . not only the belief that everything deserves to perish; but one actually puts one�s shoulder to the plough; one destroys�
What interests me in this quote is the word "deserves".
Opinions?
In a way everything does 'deserve' to perish, because inevitably it will perish And in a way, we always get what we deserve
--------------------
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Chronic7]
#11369198 - 11/02/09 01:14 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Deserve implies a value judgment. I don't think that applies to much beyond the human realm.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Ahimsa
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11369516 - 11/02/09 01:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nihilism? Just say NO!
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Poid
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11370560 - 11/02/09 04:11 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Well there is truth to it. But why "deserves"?
Because everything is indefatigably pathetic, nothing is even close to being perfect.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11370586 - 11/02/09 04:14 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Once again Poid, deserves is a value judgment.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11370609 - 11/02/09 04:17 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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...and nihilists are human organisms; human organisms have the potential to assign value to phenomena.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11370626 - 11/02/09 04:19 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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sure but it really goes against what I consider a definition of Nihilism.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11370652 - 11/02/09 04:22 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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What goes against your definition of nihilism, and how does your definition of nihilism differ from the dictionary definition of the term?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11370722 - 11/02/09 04:29 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated.
From the Encyclopedia of Philosophy.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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LunarEclipse
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11371289 - 11/02/09 05:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Well there is truth to it. But why "deserves"?
Because everything is indefatigably pathetic, nothing is even close to being perfect. 
Somehow I doubt the word "indefatigably" is going to make you friends in the prison yard.
Or Not.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Poid
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Quote:
Icelander said: Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated.
From the Encyclopedia of Philosophy.
You didn't answer my question! 
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Well there is truth to it. But why "deserves"?
Because everything is indefatigably pathetic, nothing is even close to being perfect. 
Somehow I doubt the word "indefatigably" is going to make you friends in the prison yard.
Or Not. 
Don't tell them ol' folks from the prison yard I said this, but they can suck on my big fat dick.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11372157 - 11/02/09 07:52 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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But I did. I don't have a personal definition of nihilism. I was basing this thread on the dictionary.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11372179 - 11/02/09 07:55 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think I now see the light.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11372228 - 11/02/09 08:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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See, my point is that the word "deserves" doesn't belong. It's a value judgment and so meaningless. It show the persons bias toward cynicism IMO. Many cynics IMO, like to hide behind the banner of Nihilism.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11372261 - 11/02/09 08:06 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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So bona-fide nihilism is like "enlightenment"?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11372270 - 11/02/09 08:08 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think it's got a much better chance than most of the wishful thinking that goes here for "spirituality".
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11372274 - 11/02/09 08:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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How much better?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Sleepwalker
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11372382 - 11/02/09 08:20 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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This much:
[-------------------------]
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Poid
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How 'bout this much? 
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11372446 - 11/02/09 08:26 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: How much better? 
A fuckload.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11372454 - 11/02/09 08:27 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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A fuckload of what
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11372510 - 11/02/09 08:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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A fuckload of better.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11372562 - 11/02/09 08:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Is that good enough, though? Can it ever be?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11372741 - 11/02/09 09:05 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Too good is never good enough.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11372844 - 11/02/09 09:19 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why? Is it because 'good enough-ness' is necessarily beyond 'too good-ness'?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11372869 - 11/02/09 09:22 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Bye.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11372936 - 11/02/09 09:30 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is why you've got my vote for the new PS&P moderator.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Noteworthy
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11374507 - 11/03/09 02:56 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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too good is not good enough because its too good... but just less than too good is not as good as too good.So you are stuck forever able to seek greater satisfaction, but also being able to desire more. the question is, does having money make the desire for more money greater than if you had less money? If this is the case, it means that as people attain money for the mere sake of money, they get further from their goal of satisfaction but id like some more money
--------------------

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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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What I relate is the history of the next two centuries. I describe what is coming, what can no longer come differently: the advent of nihilism. . . . For some time now our whole European culture has been moving as toward a catastrophe, with a tortured tension that is growing from decade to decade: restlessly, violently, headlong, like a river that wants to reach the end. . . . (Will to Power)Since Nietzsche’s compelling critique, nihilistic themes–epistemological failure, value destruction, and cosmic purposelessness–have preoccupied artists, social critics, and philosophers. Convinced that Nietzsche’s analysis was accurate, for example, Oswald Spengler in The Decline of the West (1926) studied several cultures to confirm that patterns of nihilism were indeed a conspicuous feature of collapsing civilizations. In each of the failed cultures he examines, Spengler noticed that centuries-old religious, artistic, and political traditions were weakened and finally toppled by the insidious workings of several distinct nihilistic postures: the Faustian nihilist “shatters the ideals”; the Apollinian nihilist “watches them crumble before his eyes”; and the Indian nihilist “withdraws from their presence into himself.” Withdrawal, for instance, often identified with the negation of reality and resignation advocated by Eastern religions, is in the West associated with various versions of epicureanism and stoicism. In his study, Spengler concludes that Western civilization is already in the advanced stages of decay with all three forms of nihilism working to undermine epistemological authority and ontological grounding.
What cha think Noteworthy.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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It has been over a century now since Nietzsche explored nihilism and its implications for civilization. As he predicted, nihilism’s impact on the culture and values of the 20th century has been pervasive, its apocalyptic tenor spawning a mood of gloom and a good deal of anxiety, anger, and terror. Interestingly, Nietzsche himself, a radical skeptic preoccupied with language, knowledge, and truth, anticipated many of the themes of postmodernity. It’s helpful to note, then, that he believed we could–at a terrible price–eventually work through nihilism. If we survived the process of destroying all interpretations of the world, we could then perhaps discover the correct course for humankind:
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
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Quote:
Noteworthy said: but id like some more money
Me too; money buys me drugs!
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized


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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11375856 - 11/03/09 10:20 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: What I relate is the history of the next two centuries. I describe what is coming, what can no longer come differently: the advent of nihilism. . . . For some time now our whole European culture has been moving as toward a catastrophe, with a tortured tension that is growing from decade to decade: restlessly, violently, headlong, like a river that wants to reach the end. . . . (Will to Power)Since Nietzsche?s compelling critique, nihilistic themes?epistemological failure, value destruction, and cosmic purposelessness?have preoccupied artists, social critics, and philosophers. Convinced that Nietzsche?s analysis was accurate, for example, Oswald Spengler in The Decline of the West (1926) studied several cultures to confirm that patterns of nihilism were indeed a conspicuous feature of collapsing civilizations. In each of the failed cultures he examines, Spengler noticed that centuries-old religious, artistic, and political traditions were weakened and finally toppled by the insidious workings of several distinct nihilistic postures: the Faustian nihilist ?shatters the ideals?; the Apollinian nihilist ?watches them crumble before his eyes?; and the Indian nihilist ?withdraws from their presence into himself.? Withdrawal, for instance, often identified with the negation of reality and resignation advocated by Eastern religions, is in the West associated with various versions of epicureanism and stoicism. In his study, Spengler concludes that Western civilization is already in the advanced stages of decay with all three forms of nihilism working to undermine epistemological authority and ontological grounding.
What cha think Noteworthy.
I'll say... I liked the different themed nihilists - its precious.
-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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Lakefingers

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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: andrewss]
#11376252 - 11/03/09 11:26 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nietzsche really shines there. Spengler's prescient too.
There is no correct course for mankind though. We've always been wandering. Nations, value metaphysics, etc, have always been unfinished, ultimately unfounded, etc. What Western civilization has to realize is that its search for new beginnings is its nature.
Interesting comparing the US to Europe. In the US the foundation was made and history's parenthetical end was reached in 1776. From then on you build. Europe's been starting over, and over, and over, and over... Two different modes of the West's sense of metaphysical rootlessness that expresses itself in need of historical grounding. But by the time we've solved this, we'll have no nation states, etc, etc..
[Edit:]

Edited by Lakefingers (11/03/09 11:33 AM)
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized


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Quote:
Lakefingers said: There is no correct course for mankind though. We've always been wandering. Nations, value metaphysics, etc, have always been unfinished, ultimately unfounded, etc. What Western civilization has to realize is that its search for new beginnings is its nature.
Fair enough, but we are pretty vindicated to call certain things improvements/regressions historically. But I like how you called it this type of cultures nature.
Indeed we will always be becoming/progressing, its the nature of life... but I think Nietzsche had some good ideas about what things should be overcome in man - but then again I do not see how it is much beyond cheeky idealism... which, perhaps, played into (to some extent) his mental demise later in life. But I respect that, and I think many here (and in the realm of philosophy) can empathize with that to a point... Man is something that should be overcome... yes but isn't it disappointing when that will likely never come to be except in a few quiet commentators.
-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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Life Upon Death
Stranger

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Quote:
Lakefingers said: Nietzsche really shines there. Spengler's prescient too.
There is no correct course for mankind though. We've always been wandering. Nations, value metaphysics, etc, have always been unfinished, ultimately unfounded, etc. What Western civilization has to realize is that its search for new beginnings is its nature.
Interesting comparing the US to Europe. In the US the foundation was made and history's parenthetical end was reached in 1776. From then on you build. Europe's been starting over, and over, and over, and over... Two different modes of the West's sense of metaphysical rootlessness that expresses itself in need of historical grounding. But by the time we've solved this, we'll have no nation states, etc, etc..
[Edit:]

1776 was also the founding of the illuminati...
“Roosevelt as he looked at the colored reproduction of the Seal was first struck with the representation of the 'All-Seeing Eye,' a Masonic representation of Great Architect the Universe. Next he was impressed with the idea that the foundation for the new order of the ages had been laid in 1776 (May 1st, 1776, founding of the Illuminati) but would be completed only under the eye of the Great Architect. Roosevelt like myself was a 32nd degree Mason. He suggested that the Seal be put on the dollar bill rather that a coin.”
Henry Wallace VP
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Lakefingers

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Point being?
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Life Upon Death
Stranger

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Quote:
Lakefingers said: Point being?
nothing I just figured people should know that the reason for 1776 being on the dollar bill is not because of the founding of the country
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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And that you were a Mason.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Life Upon Death
Stranger

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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11376913 - 11/03/09 01:06 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: And that you were a Mason.
???
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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nothing I just figured people should know that
It was a good natured poke in the ribs.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Life Upon Death
Stranger

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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11377034 - 11/03/09 01:24 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: nothing I just figured people should know that
It was a good natured poke in the ribs. 
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Life Upon Death
Stranger

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Life Upon Death
Stranger

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creepy eh?
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Icelander
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of course.
They're all creepy.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Life Upon Death
Stranger

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J.S.M. Ward, a Masonic authority who has written several important books on masonry, wrote in his book FREEMASONRY: ITS AIMS & IDEALS (Pg.185): "I consider freemasonry is a significantly organized school of mysticism to be entitled to be called a religion." Ward continues on page 187, "Freemasonry...taught that each man can by himself, work out his own conception of god and thereby achieve salvation." It holds that there are many paths that lead to the throne of the all-loving father which all start from a common source. Freemasonry believes, according to Ward, "that though these paths appear to branch off in various directions, yet they all reach the same ultimate goal, and that to some men, one path is better and to other, another."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzwiEhUoQUU
creepy mofo
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Icelander
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The Icelander path to salvation.    
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Life Upon Death
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ElYy6MLUVU
"Lucifer works within each of us to bring us to wholeness, and as we move into a New Age…each of us in some way is brought to that point which I term the Luciferic Initiation, the particular doorway through which the individual must pass if he is to come fully into the presence of his light and wholenesss. Lucifer prepares man in all ways for the experience of Christhood… The light that reveals to us the presence of the Christ…comes from Lucifer. He is the light-giver, he is aptly named the Morning Star because it is his light that heralds for man the dawn of a great consciousness …He stands…as the Great Initiator, the one who hands the soul over to the Christ."
David Spangler, director of planetary initiative, united nations
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Life Upon Death
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Luke 11:
33"(Z)No one, after lighting a lamp, puts it away in a cellar nor under a basket, but on the lampstand, so that those who enter may see the light.
34"(AA)The eye is the lamp of your body; when your eye is clear, your whole body also is full of light; but when it is bad, your body also is full of darkness.
35"Then watch out that the light in you is not darkness.
36"If therefore your whole body is full of light, with no dark part in it, it will be wholly illumined, as when the lamp illumines you with its rays."
Matt 6:
22"(AB)The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light.
23"But if (AC)your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic




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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: andrewss]
#11380173 - 11/03/09 09:20 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Essentially nihilism is a mentality assured there is no meaning/personal-purpose to be had in life
that's what I thought it was... basically, the belief there is no point to anything at all, everything is random and without purpose, there is probably no after-life.
Hence there is no reason to do anything, or restrain from doing anything for that matter.
we are just living out the chaotically complex forces that spawned us, and which will one day reduce us to nothingness again.
there is a terrifying freedom in this philosophy.
-------------------- Nothing is true, everything is permissible. Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
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astronaut
ascetic aesthetic


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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: LuSiD9]
#11380606 - 11/03/09 10:31 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't see that as nihilism at all. To willfully self-destruct, there must be an aspiration -- that is, to be destroyed. Likewise, to willfully destroy, the aspiration is the same. The motivation may be aesthetic in nature (Cool, etc), or it may merely be a longing to recede into oblivion (Thanatos)... But whatever the case, nihilism as I understand it is not compatible with any aspiration. To me, nihilism is the absence of aspiration, and the complete halting of all constructive and deconstructive longings and tendencies.
--------------------
In another Time's Forgotten Space, your Eyes looked through your Mother's Face: Wildflower Seed on the Sand and Stone, may the Four Winds blow you Safely Home!
Edited by astronaut (11/03/09 10:38 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: LuSiD9]
#11380837 - 11/03/09 11:07 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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we are just living out the chaotically complex forces that spawned us, and which will one day reduce us to nothingness again.
This is all I see. Then of course the questions arises. What will I do?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: astronaut]
#11380852 - 11/03/09 11:10 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
astronaut said: I don't see that as nihilism at all. To willfully self-destruct, there must be an aspiration -- that is, to be destroyed. Likewise, to willfully destroy, the aspiration is the same. The motivation may be aesthetic in nature (Cool, etc), or it may merely be a longing to recede into oblivion (Thanatos)... But whatever the case, nihilism as I understand it is not compatible with any aspiration. To me, nihilism is the absence of aspiration, and the complete halting of all constructive and deconstructive longings and tendencies.
If this is true then IMO Nihilism is not something we can live with. We do aspire. And without the basic instinctual urges would we not seek oblivion?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Lakefingers

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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11381568 - 11/04/09 03:10 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
If this is true then IMO Nihilism is not something we can live with. We do aspire. And without the basic instinctual urges would we not seek oblivion?
So you do agree with Ernest Becker's conclusion on the last page?
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Life Upon Death
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: LuSiD9]
#11381984 - 11/04/09 07:09 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LuSiD9 said:
Quote:
Essentially nihilism is a mentality assured there is no meaning/personal-purpose to be had in life
that's what I thought it was... basically, the belief there is no point to anything at all, everything is random and without purpose, there is probably no after-life.
Hence there is no reason to do anything, or restrain from doing anything for that matter.
we are just living out the chaotically complex forces that spawned us, and which will one day reduce us to nothingness again.
there is a terrifying freedom in this philosophy.
only if existence truly ends with death
if it doesn't its a terrifying imprisonment
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Quote:
Lakefingers said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
If this is true then IMO Nihilism is not something we can live with. We do aspire. And without the basic instinctual urges would we not seek oblivion?
So you do agree with Ernest Becker's conclusion on the last page? 
Well of course we seek relief from death anxiety. He chose a return to faith. I cannot. My personal goal if it's a realistic one is to slowly, consciously, condition myself to my anxiety. To lessen the impact, not in life so much but towards the final moments. I would like some feeling of composure at my dying but without the props of faith in something greater then death itself.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Ahimsa
µdose



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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11382806 - 11/04/09 10:41 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Death will come, don't worry.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Ahimsa]
#11382896 - 11/04/09 10:59 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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duh
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Ahimsa
µdose



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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11382985 - 11/04/09 11:15 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: duh
What?
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Ahimsa]
#11383045 - 11/04/09 11:24 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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what?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized


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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11383061 - 11/04/09 11:26 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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Ahimsa
µdose



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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11383062 - 11/04/09 11:26 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: what?
Well, you always go on about death. But it will come anyhow. What can we do but be open to it? Why all this search for relief in faith and such?
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: andrewss]
#11383070 - 11/04/09 11:27 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have that on my computer desktop. How did you know.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Ahimsa]
#11383080 - 11/04/09 11:29 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ahimsa said:
Quote:
Icelander said: what?
Well, you always go on about death. But it will come anyhow. What can we do but be open to it? Why all this search for relief in faith and such?
There is absolutely no fucking way I will address this after all the posts on this subject and intense discussion of it over the last several weeks. duh.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11383090 - 11/04/09 11:30 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Lakefingers said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
If this is true then IMO Nihilism is not something we can live with. We do aspire. And without the basic instinctual urges would we not seek oblivion?
So you do agree with Ernest Becker's conclusion on the last page? 
Well of course we seek relief from death anxiety. He chose a return to faith. I cannot. My personal goal if it's a realistic one is to slowly, consciously, condition myself to my anxiety. To lessen the impact, not in life so much but towards the final moments. I would like some feeling of composure at my dying but without the props of faith in something greater then death itself.
Do what Huxley did!
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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LuSiD9
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let's assume there is nothing after death... at all
would nothing really be all that bad?
-------------------- Nothing is true, everything is permissible. Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
Edited by LuSiD9 (11/04/09 11:32 AM)
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Poid
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: LuSiD9]
#11383117 - 11/04/09 11:33 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Freud liked death!
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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astronaut
ascetic aesthetic


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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11383148 - 11/04/09 11:37 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
astronaut said: I don't see that as nihilism at all. To willfully self-destruct, there must be an aspiration -- that is, to be destroyed. Likewise, to willfully destroy, the aspiration is the same. The motivation may be aesthetic in nature (Cool, etc), or it may merely be a longing to recede into oblivion (Thanatos)... But whatever the case, nihilism as I understand it is not compatible with any aspiration. To me, nihilism is the absence of aspiration, and the complete halting of all constructive and deconstructive longings and tendencies.
If this is true then IMO Nihilism is not something we can live with. We do aspire. And without the basic instinctual urges would we not seek oblivion?
But are the "we" that aspire nihilists? I've at times lived without aspiration, and without a need to construct or deconstruct. I didn't care about anything, and nothing had any meaning to me. But you are right, part of me was driven towards oblivion. I wasn't consciously seeking out self-destruction, but it may have been an inadvertent result.
Eventually I did rebuild myself. But I live knowing that I've compromised part of myself to recapture meaning.
edit -- thinking back, I was in that space after deconstructing everything. Maybe I wasn't deconstructing, because there was nothing left to deconstruct.
edit #2 -- except empathy. that's one thing I never deconstructed, and ultimately it's what I used to pull myself back.
edit #2 -- is nihilism rock-bottom, or is it the path to rock-bottom (oblivion)? thinking about it now, I agree with your response, and think it's the latter, in which case oblivion is the aspiration of nihilism, and self-destruction is a method.
--------------------
In another Time's Forgotten Space, your Eyes looked through your Mother's Face: Wildflower Seed on the Sand and Stone, may the Four Winds blow you Safely Home!
Edited by astronaut (11/04/09 11:52 AM)
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: astronaut]
#11383176 - 11/04/09 11:41 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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except empathy.
This is what aspires I'm guessing or something else for someone else, but always, even if buried in the background, something.
Otherwise, why would there be this coming back?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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LuSiD9
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: demiu5]
#11383222 - 11/04/09 11:48 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
demius said: as far as the roots of nihilism, i think maybe it stems from indulging in indulgence, or over indulgence
a life depraved of the ability to indulge can lead you to the exact same place
if life is shit... what's the fuckin point?
it's hard to find meaning in a shitty, boring, painful life... unless you believe it will be made up for in heaven.
-------------------- Nothing is true, everything is permissible. Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
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Lakefingers

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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: LuSiD9]
#11384298 - 11/04/09 02:07 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: ... Well of course we seek relief from death anxiety. He chose a return to faith. I cannot. My personal goal if it's a realistic one is to slowly, consciously, condition myself to my anxiety. To lessen the impact, not in life so much but towards the final moments. I would like some feeling of composure at my dying but without the props of faith in something greater then death itself.
Not exactly something to build a family, tribe or society on...
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Icelander
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No I guess not. However there is no reason that a more open discussion of death cannot take place. In Veritas home her children have no illusions about who dies and they absolutely do not believe in afterlife nonsense.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic




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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11386908 - 11/04/09 07:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
astronaut said: I don't see that as nihilism at all
I don't understand how what I said could not be seen as nihilism
Quote:
astronaut said: The motivation may be aesthetic in nature (Cool, etc)
I have never met anyone who became a nihilist to be cool... ever
I think science is what causes most people to become nihilists.. at least in my experience... that and depression
Quote:
Icelander said: we are just living out the chaotically complex forces that spawned us, and which will one day reduce us to nothingness again.
This is all I see. Then of course the questions arises. What will I do?
exactly
-------------------- Nothing is true, everything is permissible. Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
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astronaut
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: LuSiD9]
#11386936 - 11/04/09 07:32 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LuSiD9 said:
Quote:
astronaut said: I don't see that as nihilism at all
I don't understand how what I said could not be seen as nihilism
Quote:
astronaut said: The motivation may be aesthetic in nature (Cool, etc)
I have never met anyone who became a nihilist to be cool... ever
I think science is what causes most people to become nihilists.. at least in my experience... that and depression
I meant to respond to the original post, not to you.
What I said is that the motivation to self-destruct may be aesthetic (as in, to be edgy or just 'cool').. but no, that's not nihilism. I agree that scientific rationality and depression may lead to nihilism.
--------------------
In another Time's Forgotten Space, your Eyes looked through your Mother's Face: Wildflower Seed on the Sand and Stone, may the Four Winds blow you Safely Home!
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LuSiD9
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: astronaut]
#11386979 - 11/04/09 07:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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oh ok... I see where you're coming from now astronaut
-------------------- Nothing is true, everything is permissible. Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: astronaut]
#11387179 - 11/04/09 08:03 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think depression leads to cynicism more than nihilism.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (11/04/09 08:04 PM)
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LuSiD9
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11388281 - 11/04/09 10:56 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I guess it's more a potential symptom of depression than a result of it
and nihilistic thinking can easily pave the road towards depression for many
-------------------- Nothing is true, everything is permissible. Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
Edited by LuSiD9 (11/04/09 11:00 PM)
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learningtofly
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: LuSiD9]
#11388297 - 11/04/09 10:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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WE BELIEVE IN NOSSING LEBOWSKI!
--------------------
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic




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Quote:
learningtofly said: VEE BELIEF IN NOSSING LEBOWSKI!
fixed
-------------------- Nothing is true, everything is permissible. Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
Edited by LuSiD9 (11/04/09 11:03 PM)
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Lakefingers

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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: LuSiD9]
#11389091 - 11/05/09 04:25 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: No I guess not. However there is no reason that a more open discussion of death cannot take place. In Veritas home her children have no illusions about who dies and they absolutely do not believe in afterlife nonsense.
Good. But I'm just making a reminder that the conclusions we might draw are a philosophy for the few.
Edited by Lakefingers (11/05/09 10:04 AM)
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Icelander
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For who can stand it?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Lakefingers

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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11389896 - 11/05/09 10:05 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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For who can understand it.
Edited by Lakefingers (11/06/09 01:39 AM)
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Ahimsa
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11389994 - 11/05/09 10:26 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: �Nihilism is . . . not only the belief that everything deserves to perish; but one actually puts one�s shoulder to the plough; one destroys�
What interests me in this quote is the word "deserves".
Opinions?
I don't think 'deserve' to perish. They are to perish no matter what. Nothing to do with 'deserving'. Everything that is born must cease. Saying that something doesn't 'deserve' may feel true but it doesn't change a thing about the nature of reality. That we have to destroy is unavoidable. All things become anew from the remnants of what ceased.
Nihilism is... denying the existence of anything. Which is wrong since things exist when they have arisen due to circumstances and conditions that caused them to do so.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Ahimsa]
#11390006 - 11/05/09 10:28 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Maybe we (us here) who think nihilism is valuable at least in part should create our own definition.
I think I will start a thread. thanks.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#11390871 - 11/05/09 01:21 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Fuck nihilism.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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LuSiD9
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Ahimsa]
#11390923 - 11/05/09 01:31 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nihilism is... denying the existence of anything

not quite buddy
Nihilism
hate to post a wikipedia link.... but I think you may benefit.
-------------------- Nothing is true, everything is permissible. Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
Edited by LuSiD9 (11/05/09 01:34 PM)
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astronaut
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: LuSiD9]
#11390981 - 11/05/09 01:42 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah that sounds more like solipsism.
Am I the only one who is scared by solipsism? Nihilism is workable... but solipsism makes me think of psychopathy.
--------------------
In another Time's Forgotten Space, your Eyes looked through your Mother's Face: Wildflower Seed on the Sand and Stone, may the Four Winds blow you Safely Home!
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: astronaut]
#11390993 - 11/05/09 01:44 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Solipsism is complete stupid horse shit. 
Just crush a bug, and you'll know what I mean. Maybe.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic




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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: astronaut]
#11391016 - 11/05/09 01:48 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
astronaut said: solipsism makes me think of psychopathy.
makes me think of schizophrenia more than psychopathy
I wandered down that road a little farther than I should have at one point in my life (solipsism)
still hard to shake it off to this day... I just about completely lost it
Quote:
astronaut said:
Am I the only one who is scared by solipsism?
no
-------------------- Nothing is true, everything is permissible. Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
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Ahimsa
µdose



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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: LuSiD9]
#11391203 - 11/05/09 02:12 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ok. Generally speaking nihilism is something different from what i think it should be. But then tell me, is there a name for the belief that there isn't a single thing that exists on its own? That there are no 'things' as such, nothing 'in itself'?
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic




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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Ahimsa]
#11391438 - 11/05/09 02:47 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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so you mean the belief that nothing exists... at all?
Don't know if there's a name for it... psychosis perhaps?
I'm not sure how that would be possible... as there's obviously something
-------------------- Nothing is true, everything is permissible. Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: LuSiD9]
#11391467 - 11/05/09 02:52 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LuSiD9 said: there's obviously something
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: LuSiD9]
#11391479 - 11/05/09 02:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LuSiD9 said:
Quote:
Nihilism is... denying the existence of anything

not quite buddy
Nihilism
hate to post a wikipedia link.... but I think you may benefit.
Check out the NIHILISM THREAD here. I would love your input.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11395463 - 11/06/09 01:19 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: Solipsism is complete stupid horse shit. 
Just crush a bug, and you'll know what I mean. Maybe. 
it can't be crushed, it's crept away.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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*Poid smashes an annoying spider that krept of on his keyboard*
What was that? I couldn't hear you, I was busy...
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11407906 - 11/07/09 08:59 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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where there was one there will be more.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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The dodo bird.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11422824 - 11/09/09 10:04 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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fun, irreverence
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
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You must not have gotten the point.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
#11431154 - 11/11/09 03:40 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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nope, i didn't get your last post... alright? oh and i didn't mean to say it was your comment alone that was irreverent. i mean, it's useless to try and argue over the net, especially when you are going to get the same kind of assertions no matter what... i guess i'm just not a message boards kinda guy, i'll go hang myself now. ;(
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Ahimsa
µdose



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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: LuSiD9]
#11431257 - 11/11/09 04:47 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LuSiD9 said: so you mean the belief that nothing exists... at all?
Don't know if there's a name for it... psychosis perhaps?
I'm not sure how that would be possible... as there's obviously something
Not 'nothing exists' but 'nothing exists in itself'. See, one may say things exist in themselves or things don't exist at all, but what about things existing 'co-dependently'? First lets agree about the term 'co-dependently' please. Yes?
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headyfunkup
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Ahimsa]
#11431294 - 11/11/09 05:02 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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thats so metal
--------------------
have a grateful day motherfuckers!
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Ahimsa
µdose



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Quote:
headyfunkup said: thats so metal
I don't understand the term 'metal' in this context ?!
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LuSiD9
reality is plastic




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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Ahimsa]
#11433511 - 11/11/09 02:01 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ahimsa said:
Quote:
LuSiD9 said: so you mean the belief that nothing exists... at all?
Don't know if there's a name for it... psychosis perhaps?
I'm not sure how that would be possible... as there's obviously something
Not 'nothing exists' but 'nothing exists in itself'. See, one may say things exist in themselves or things don't exist at all, but what about things existing 'co-dependently'? First lets agree about the term 'co-dependently' please. Yes?

not following you man...
-------------------- Nothing is true, everything is permissible. Our laws make law impossible; our liberties destroy all freedom; our property is organized robbery; our morality an impudent hypocrisy; our wisdom is administered by inexperienced or mal-experienced dupes; our power wielded by cowards and weaklings; and our honour false in all its points. I am an enemy of the existing order for good reasons.
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headyfunkup
ONION HEAD

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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Ahimsa]
#11438013 - 11/11/09 11:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ahimsa said:
Quote:
headyfunkup said: thats so metal
I don't understand the term 'metal' in this context ?!
i guess youve never seen metalocolypse
--------------------
have a grateful day motherfuckers!
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