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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
    #11372869 - 11/02/09 09:22 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Bye.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
    #11372936 - 11/02/09 09:30 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

This is why you've got my vote for the new PS&P moderator. :congrats:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Poid]
    #11374507 - 11/03/09 02:56 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

too good is not good enough because its too good... but just less than too good is not as good as too good.So you are stuck forever able to seek greater satisfaction, but also being able to desire more. 
the question is, does having money make the desire for more money greater than if you had less money?
If this is the case, it means that as people attain money for the mere sake of money, they get further from their goal of satisfaction
but id like some more money


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11374828 - 11/03/09 05:46 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

What I relate is the history of the next two centuries. I describe what is coming, what can no longer come differently: the advent of nihilism. . . . For some time now our whole European culture has been moving as toward a catastrophe, with a tortured tension that is growing from decade to decade: restlessly, violently, headlong, like a river that wants to reach the end. . . . (Will to Power)Since Nietzsche’s compelling critique, nihilistic themes–epistemological failure, value destruction, and cosmic purposelessness–have preoccupied artists, social critics, and philosophers. Convinced that Nietzsche’s analysis was accurate, for example, Oswald Spengler in The Decline of the West (1926) studied several cultures to confirm that patterns of nihilism were indeed a conspicuous feature of collapsing civilizations. In each of the failed cultures he examines, Spengler noticed that centuries-old religious, artistic, and political traditions were weakened and finally toppled by the insidious workings of several distinct nihilistic postures: the Faustian nihilist “shatters the ideals”; the Apollinian nihilist “watches them crumble before his eyes”; and the Indian nihilist “withdraws from their presence into himself.” Withdrawal, for instance, often identified with the negation of reality and resignation advocated by Eastern religions, is in the West associated with various versions of epicureanism and stoicism. In his study, Spengler concludes that Western civilization is already in the advanced stages of decay with all three forms of nihilism working to undermine epistemological authority and ontological grounding.

What cha think Noteworthy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11374847 - 11/03/09 05:54 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It has been over a century now since Nietzsche explored nihilism and its implications for civilization. As he predicted, nihilism’s impact on the culture and values of the 20th century has been pervasive, its apocalyptic tenor spawning a mood of gloom and a good deal of anxiety, anger, and terror. Interestingly, Nietzsche himself, a radical skeptic preoccupied with language, knowledge, and truth, anticipated many of the themes of postmodernity. It’s helpful to note, then, that he believed we could–at a terrible price–eventually work through nihilism. If we survived the process of destroying all interpretations of the world, we could then perhaps discover the correct course for humankind:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11375572 - 11/03/09 09:31 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
but id like some more money


Me too; money buys me drugs! :awedrugs:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlineandrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
    #11375856 - 11/03/09 10:20 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
What I relate is the history of the next two centuries. I describe what is coming, what can no longer come differently: the advent of nihilism. . . . For some time now our whole European culture has been moving as toward a catastrophe, with a tortured tension that is growing from decade to decade: restlessly, violently, headlong, like a river that wants to reach the end. . . . (Will to Power)Since Nietzsche?s compelling critique, nihilistic themes?epistemological failure, value destruction, and cosmic purposelessness?have preoccupied artists, social critics, and philosophers. Convinced that Nietzsche?s analysis was accurate, for example, Oswald Spengler in The Decline of the West (1926) studied several cultures to confirm that patterns of nihilism were indeed a conspicuous feature of collapsing civilizations. In each of the failed cultures he examines, Spengler noticed that centuries-old religious, artistic, and political traditions were weakened and finally toppled by the insidious workings of several distinct nihilistic postures: the Faustian nihilist ?shatters the ideals?; the Apollinian nihilist ?watches them crumble before his eyes?; and the Indian nihilist ?withdraws from their presence into himself.? Withdrawal, for instance, often identified with the negation of reality and resignation advocated by Eastern religions, is in the West associated with various versions of epicureanism and stoicism. In his study, Spengler concludes that Western civilization is already in the advanced stages of decay with all three forms of nihilism working to undermine epistemological authority and ontological grounding.

What cha think Noteworthy.




I'll say... I liked the different themed nihilists - its precious.


--------------------
Jesus loves you.


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: andrewss]
    #11376252 - 11/03/09 11:26 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Nietzsche really shines there. Spengler's prescient too.

There is no correct course for mankind though. We've always been wandering. Nations, value metaphysics, etc, have always been unfinished, ultimately unfounded, etc. What Western civilization has to realize is that its search for new beginnings is its nature.

Interesting comparing the US to Europe. In the US the foundation was made and history's parenthetical end was reached in 1776. From then on you build. Europe's been starting over, and over, and over, and over... Two different modes of the West's sense of metaphysical rootlessness that expresses itself in need of historical grounding. But by the time we've solved this, we'll have no nation states, etc, etc..

[Edit:]



Edited by Lakefingers (11/03/09 11:33 AM)


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Offlineandrewss
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Registered: 08/17/07
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Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11376516 - 11/03/09 12:08 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lakefingers said:
There is no correct course for mankind though. We've always been wandering. Nations, value metaphysics, etc, have always been unfinished, ultimately unfounded, etc. What Western civilization has to realize is that its search for new beginnings is its nature.




Fair enough, but we are pretty vindicated to call certain things improvements/regressions historically.
But I like how you called it this type of cultures nature.

Indeed we will always be becoming/progressing, its the nature of life... but I think Nietzsche had some good ideas about what things should be overcome in man - but then again I do not see how it is much beyond cheeky idealism... which, perhaps, played into (to some extent) his mental demise later in life. But I respect that, and I think many here (and in the realm of philosophy) can empathize with that to a point... Man is something that should be overcome... yes but isn't it disappointing when that will likely never come to be except in a few quiet commentators.


--------------------
Jesus loves you.


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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Registered: 10/25/09
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11376586 - 11/03/09 12:17 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lakefingers said:
Nietzsche really shines there. Spengler's prescient too.

There is no correct course for mankind though. We've always been wandering. Nations, value metaphysics, etc, have always been unfinished, ultimately unfounded, etc. What Western civilization has to realize is that its search for new beginnings is its nature.

Interesting comparing the US to Europe. In the US the foundation was made and history's parenthetical end was reached in 1776. From then on you build. Europe's been starting over, and over, and over, and over... Two different modes of the West's sense of metaphysical rootlessness that expresses itself in need of historical grounding. But by the time we've solved this, we'll have no nation states, etc, etc..

[Edit:]






1776 was also the founding of the illuminati...

“Roosevelt as he looked at the colored reproduction of the Seal was first struck with the representation of the 'All-Seeing Eye,' a Masonic representation of Great Architect the Universe. Next he was impressed with the idea that the foundation for the new order of the ages had been laid in 1776 (May 1st, 1776, founding of the Illuminati) but would be completed only under the eye of the Great Architect. Roosevelt like myself was a 32nd degree Mason. He suggested that the Seal be put on the dollar bill rather that a coin.”

Henry Wallace VP


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11376715 - 11/03/09 12:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Point being?


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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11376901 - 11/03/09 01:05 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lakefingers said:
Point being?




nothing I just figured people should know that the reason for 1776 being on the dollar bill is not because of the founding of the country


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11376907 - 11/03/09 01:06 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

And that you were a Mason.:grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Posts: 3,225
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
    #11376913 - 11/03/09 01:06 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
And that you were a Mason.:grin:




???


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11376971 - 11/03/09 01:14 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

nothing I just figured people should know that

It was a good natured poke in the ribs. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLife Upon Death
Stranger

Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 3,225
Last seen: 14 years, 24 days
Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
    #11377034 - 11/03/09 01:24 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
nothing I just figured people should know that

It was a good natured poke in the ribs. :heart:




:bigkiss2:


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OfflineLife Upon Death
Stranger

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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11377046 - 11/03/09 01:25 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11377047 - 11/03/09 01:26 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

creepy eh?


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11377095 - 11/03/09 01:34 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

of course. :hitler:

:obama: They're all creepy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLife Upon Death
Stranger

Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 3,225
Last seen: 14 years, 24 days
Re: Roots of Nihilism? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11377159 - 11/03/09 01:46 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

J.S.M. Ward, a Masonic authority who has written several important books on masonry, wrote in his book FREEMASONRY: ITS AIMS & IDEALS (Pg.185): "I consider freemasonry is a significantly organized school of mysticism to be entitled to be called a religion." Ward continues on page 187, "Freemasonry...taught that each man can by himself, work out his own conception of god and thereby achieve salvation." It holds that there are many paths that lead to the throne of the all-loving father which all start from a common source. Freemasonry believes, according to Ward, "that though these paths appear to branch off in various directions, yet they all reach the same ultimate goal, and that to some men, one path is better and to other, another."



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzwiEhUoQUU

creepy mofo


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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