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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
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Not enough.
    #11358952 - 10/31/09 07:37 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I'd like to hear from you if you think that it's not enough to be a temporary experience on a  material plane of existence. I'd like to know why you think that it's unacceptable and could never be enough or make one happy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAhimsa
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Registered: 01/11/07
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Re: Not enough. [Re: Icelander]
    #11359053 - 10/31/09 07:53 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

It is not to last and could never be meaningful unless it partook in the spiritual side of existence.
Without a relationship to love the material plane serves no purpose.

'This is a man's world... but it would be nothing...'


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: Not enough. [Re: Icelander]
    #11359065 - 10/31/09 07:56 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

It is more than enough :grin:


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InvisibleRationalEgo
Principium Individuationis

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,071
Loc: Boston
Re: Not enough. [Re: Icelander]
    #11359072 - 10/31/09 07:56 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'd like to hear from you if you think that it's not enough to be a temporary experience on a  material plane of existence. I'd like to know why you think that it's unacceptable and could never be enough or make one happy.




I for one think happiness here on earth is not only possible but should be the central purpose of ones life. People who posit anti-material realms as a possibility generally do not think this way. Usually the anti-materialists have a view of this world as a 'fallen' place where suffering is the standard and only by following a mystics edicts can they enter into the 'true' happiness.

Ironically, and purposely their methodology of how to attain this happiness is to divorce you from the cognitive processes that allows one to pursue happiness through the identification and acquisition of objective values within this world. That cognitive process is called 'reason'.

Of course, when you fail to achieve happiness by a mystics standard it is always entirely your fault.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Not enough. [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11359091 - 10/31/09 07:59 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ahimsa said:
It is not to last and could never be meaningful unless it partook in the spiritual side of existence.
Without a relationship to love the material plane serves no purpose.

'This is a man's world... but it would be nothing...'




Why could it never be meaningful?

How do you know that without love the material plane has no purpose?

And what does romantic love for a woman have to do with it?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Not enough. [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11359107 - 10/31/09 08:01 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Of course, when you fail to achieve happiness by a mystics standard it is always entirely your fault.


Yes, I was informed I wasn't trying hard enough, long enough, or something enough:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAhimsa
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Registered: 01/11/07
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Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Not enough. [Re: Icelander]
    #11359195 - 10/31/09 08:16 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

The dust in itself is only dust, but when it serves our spirit then it becomes meaningful.
When we apply our spirit to the material world, then the world receives the meaning we imbue it with.
Without it being of purpose to spirited beings material is dead matter without goal.
Spirit reveals itself through matter, and that's where this material world gets its purpose from.
Love in turn is the meaning of the spirit. Because of love the spirit has purpose.
Finally it is the love between two people that consummate this love that is the highest expression of what we really are... a mystical self-transcending reality revealing our connectedness with everyone and everything. :flowers:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
You are under arrest!
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 44,512
Loc: Urban Jungle
Re: Not enough. [Re: Icelander]
    #11359225 - 10/31/09 08:22 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I'd like to hear from you if you think that it's not enough to be a temporary experience on a  material plane of existence.




:fishing:


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Not enough. [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11359248 - 10/31/09 08:26 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Sounds completely religious and a mish mash of things from lots of different sources.

How do you come to know all this to be true?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAhimsa
Male

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,790
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Not enough. [Re: Icelander]
    #11359289 - 10/31/09 08:33 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Sounds completely religious and a mish mash of things from lots of different sources.

How do you come to know all this to be true?




If you don't believe it or can't see it to be true then i'll have to tell you something else to make you believe in. :ohwell:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
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Re: Not enough. [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11359297 - 10/31/09 08:34 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Not sure you are answering my question.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAhimsa
Male

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,790
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Not enough. [Re: Icelander]
    #11359339 - 10/31/09 08:43 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Not sure you are answering my question.




The idea of being 'a temporary experience on a material plane of existence' is surely enough to live by. But to be happy we do need to develop our mind and learn what loving is. Otherwise we spend this 'temporary experience on a material plane of existence' as a waste of time.


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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 3,225
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Not enough. [Re: Icelander]
    #11359344 - 10/31/09 08:43 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'd like to hear from you if you think that it's not enough to be a temporary experience on a  material plane of existence. I'd like to know why you think that it's unacceptable and could never be enough or make one happy.





well for one because materialism never truly satisfies

for 2 because no matter what you have or how "happy" you are in this existence you always know deep down that it will come to an end one day

you can't escape the reality that every human being who has lived in this world has died and so will you

so if your belief ends with this world then you must accept the futility of your personal existence

even if your being here plays some role in the evolutionary process of life it doesn't negate the fact that its an existence based on chance with no real purpose

I personally encourage reason and critical analysis of the facts(though sometimes you have to dig deeper then the surface)

I encourage the pursuit of actual reality(truth) wherever that may lead the individual

because I am confident in what I believe to be true(because I have honestly contemplated it)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Not enough. [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11359376 - 10/31/09 08:51 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I agree the the experience of love is one of the great joys of life.  If that turns out to be temporary I see no reason that it is lessened.

In fact I find great solace in the fact that this experience is most likely temporary. It isn't all love you know. It's all about survival and awesome violence too. We forget that sometimes when our meat is all wrapped up nice and our house is heated because something somewhere else was pushed out of the way to make room for us and on and on. All life lives on the death of something else.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Registered: 10/25/09
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Re: Not enough. [Re: Icelander]
    #11359395 - 10/31/09 08:54 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I agree the the experience of love is one of the great joys of life.  If that turns out to be temporary I see no reason that it is lessened.

In fact I find great solace in the fact that this experience is most likely temporary. It isn't all love you know. It's all about survival and awesome violence too. We forget that sometimes when our meat is all wrapped up nice and our house is heated because something somewhere else was pushed out of the way to make room for us and on and on. All life lives on the death of something else.




only because death entered the equation in the first place

I don't believe it was meant to be this way originally

you may have a desire for violence but do you really think that desire can set you free?


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OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
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Registered: 09/20/05
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Re: Not enough. [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11359418 - 10/31/09 08:59 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RationalEgo said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I'd like to hear from you if you think that it's not enough to be a temporary experience on a  material plane of existence. I'd like to know why you think that it's unacceptable and could never be enough or make one happy.




I for one think happiness here on earth is not only possible but should be the central purpose of ones life. People who posit anti-material realms as a possibility generally do not think this way. Usually the anti-materialists have a view of this world as a 'fallen' place where suffering is the standard and only by following a mystics edicts can they enter into the 'true' happiness.

Ironically, and purposely their methodology of how to attain this happiness is to divorce you from the cognitive processes that allows one to pursue happiness through the identification and acquisition of objective values within this world. That cognitive process is called 'reason'.

Of course, when you fail to achieve happiness by a mystics standard it is always entirely your fault.


Why should one strive to achieve happiness?


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Not enough. [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11359691 - 10/31/09 09:46 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I agree the the experience of love is one of the great joys of life.  If that turns out to be temporary I see no reason that it is lessened.

In fact I find great solace in the fact that this experience is most likely temporary. It isn't all love you know. It's all about survival and awesome violence too. We forget that sometimes when our meat is all wrapped up nice and our house is heated because something somewhere else was pushed out of the way to make room for us and on and on. All life lives on the death of something else.




only because death entered the equation in the first place

I don't believe it was meant to be this way originally

you may have a desire for violence but do you really think that desire can set you free?





I don't believe it was meant to be this way originally?  Really,  so life has unfolded not according to how it was meant to be.

Honestly I sometimes wonder how people can survive in such a sterile atmosphere. What next? Intelligent Design?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 3,225
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Not enough. [Re: Icelander]
    #11360582 - 11/01/09 01:04 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I don't believe the intent was for us to fall

thats what I meant to convey

of course our choice to follow lies was foreknown


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
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Re: Not enough. [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11360591 - 11/01/09 01:10 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

That's just the curse of free will

We have things so great but take everything for granted

Louis C.K the comedian was talking about this on Conan, he puts it out this fact very well:



--------------------


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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Re: Not enough. [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11360614 - 11/01/09 01:21 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

"Physicist Dr. Lee M. Spetner's new book has biologists and geneticists across the country praising this book as one of the most serious challenges to the modern theory of evolution. "Dr. Spetner has an extraordinary ability to present complex mathematical, statistical, and biological issues in a comprehensible manner."--Rabbi Joseph Elias, The Jewish Observer "It is certainly the most rational attack on evolution that I have ever read"--Professor E. Simon, Department of Biology, Purdue University"

http://www.amazon.com/Not-Chance-Shattering-Modern-Evolution/dp/1880582244

I have yet to read the book but I hear good things

I don't know enough about ID theory to comment on it though I do believe we were intelligently designed obviously

Early trilobites show all of the features of the trilobite group as a whole; there do not seem to be any transitional or ancestral forms showing or combining the features of trilobites with other groups (e.g. early arthropods).[16] Morphological similarities between trilobites and early arthropod-like creatures such as Spriggina, Parvancorina, and other trilobitomorphs of the Ediacaran period of the Precambrian are ambiguous enough to make detailed analysis of their ancestry far from compelling (see[47] for discussion).[39] Morphological similarities between early trilobites and other Cambrian arthropods (e.g. the Burgess Shale fauna and the Maotianshan shales fauna) make analysis of ancestral relationships difficult (see[48] for discussion). However, it is still reasonable to assume that the trilobites share a common ancestor with other arthropods prior to the Ediacaran-Cambrian boundary. Evidence suggests significant diversification had already occurred prior to the preservation of trilobites in the fossil record, easily allowing for the "sudden" appearance of diverse trilobite groups with complex, derived characteristics (e.g. eyes).[42][23]

read between the lines :wink:


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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