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InvisibleMasFina
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Perfecting Impulse Sealing
    #11355797 - 10/31/09 05:33 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Was playing with the impulse sealer tonight and tweaking things to try and get the best seal and I think I have a pretty good system now.

I have: Jores Technologies Model FS 305, 12", 800wt, 5mm seal

This is what I did to get nearly perfect seals every time after about 40 mins of tinkering (It's a slow night):

Setting should be at 5
Do 4 seals per seam (press down, hold, reseal same spot, 4 times)
Bag should be perfectly flat
Hold down (firmly) 5 seconds between seals
Hold down for 30 seconds after last seal

And, if anyone finds this useful I'll be thrilled.


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Edited by MasFina (10/31/09 04:13 PM)


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Offlinetall dwarf
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Re: Perfecting Impulse Sealing [Re: MasFina]
    #11357117 - 10/31/09 01:56 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I use a FoodSaver and I'm not sure what you mean by 4 seals per seam.  What's wrong with 1 seal?  And what application are you using this for? (i.e. pasteurizing bulk sub, spawn bags, storage)?


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Offlinefundamentalchair
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Re: Perfecting Impulse Sealing [Re: tall dwarf]
    #11357224 - 10/31/09 02:17 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

What's wrong with 1 seal?




Most commercial (non-industrial) impulse sealers only have a 2mm seal where industrial ones have a 5mm+. The 2mm repportedly doesn't hold up well in a PC with pre-sealable bags.


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: Perfecting Impulse Sealing [Re: tall dwarf]
    #11357399 - 10/31/09 02:50 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I forgot to mention that mine does a 5mm seal.

This is for sealing spawn bags AFTER sterilization. I don't think presealing is a good idea.

by 4 seals per seam I meant that I will press down and hold it there for 5 seconds and then i will let up and press down again and hold 5 seconds on the same exact spot until I've done it 4 times on the same seal (I said seam before).  The first time I press down the machine seals longer. The subsequent times it is not heating for as long. I don't know if this is the design of mine or it's like this for all of them. Mine looks like this:



--------------------
A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras
Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step
Timer Modification
PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping


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Offlinefundamentalchair
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Re: Perfecting Impulse Sealing [Re: MasFina]
    #11357506 - 10/31/09 03:10 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I don't think presealing is a good idea.




With built in filter patches, I can't immagine why. I'll have to do a few dry runs with dirt or something to see if they esplode first though, as I have yet to try.

I just got an impulse in, need to give it a shot still. Thanks for the tips!


--------------------
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit


Sclerotia FAQ... If ya ain't got any stones, grow some.

Will work for Laetiporus sulphureus culture/spores (or any other Laetiporus actually), :pm: me.

My Trade list.

Ghetto Tek: Auto FAE & Light


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OfflineMessiah of Savants
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Re: Perfecting Impulse Sealing [Re: MasFina]
    #11357549 - 10/31/09 03:19 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I had that same sealer that I purchased from a sponsor and I always had problems with it. It never seemed to want to seal completely. I always had to do it multiple times and was always experimenting with holding it down for longer times, etc.

Now days all I do is use some thin metal wire and wrap around the top. This allows me to reuse the filter patch bags as well!

I've actually been trying to sell my impulse sealer. Anyone want to buy one?? PM me...


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Edited by MessiahofSavants (10/31/09 03:20 PM)


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: Perfecting Impulse Sealing [Re: fundamentalchair]
    #11357559 - 10/31/09 03:22 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

The reasoning behind not presealing is that the steam can potentially blow a hole through the bag (So says Stamets).  Also, the steam has nutrients in it from your seeds (or what have you) and this is going to be blowing through your filter patch, and soaking it in stuff that bacteria likes. The filter patch becomes much less effective for keeping out the nasties.

Also, although the wattage and settings will differ from machine to machine, I think that the key to getting good seals was the amount of time I waited between seals. This should be universal if all of the filter patch bags are about the same thickness. The 5 seconds of plastic cooling between presses is key. Anytime over or under was not giving me as good of results


--------------------
A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras
Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step
Timer Modification
PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping


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Offlinefundamentalchair
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Re: Perfecting Impulse Sealing [Re: MasFina]
    #11357660 - 10/31/09 03:35 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

(So says Stamets)




Are you reffering to his 20 yr old book? I don't mean to slam it, but if that's what your quoting, new innovations may have come about since then.

Quote:

Also, the steam has nutrients in it from your seeds




Steam escapes your bags when you don't pre-seal them, so that point is moot. Even if it was different, I would greatly contest the solubility of nutes in gaseous water. The boiling point of some may be reached in that climate, but that is no different than having a jar in a PC. If they don't vent, they pop, and what goes out probably isn't coming back in.

Just getting the filter wet will allow a bacterial vector, however I am unsure as to how to get GE in a bag that doesn't have a filter (or inflate it w/o a hood). If you post seal with a bag with a filter, how do you keep the filter dry?

At any rate, if it can contam, I can get it to contam :smile:


--------------------
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit


Sclerotia FAQ... If ya ain't got any stones, grow some.

Will work for Laetiporus sulphureus culture/spores (or any other Laetiporus actually), :pm: me.

My Trade list.

Ghetto Tek: Auto FAE & Light


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: Perfecting Impulse Sealing [Re: fundamentalchair]
    #11357713 - 10/31/09 03:47 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I was refering to his  Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms 3rd ed.

Steam escapes by the path of least resistance. That would be out of the open flap in an unsealed bag and out through the filter in a sealed bag.

If you think that the nutrients gathered on the patch after 4 hours of PCing a sealed bag are nothing to worry about then go on ahead. I am just going off of what experienced growers have said and my own intuition. I don't know the science behind it, but perhaps you do

Don't worry about the filter being a little wet from steam after PCing. It's not a problem and absolutely unavoidable.

To inflate the bags with a flowhood before sealing is best, but if you read the spawnbag tek in the bulk sub section you can see that hanging them while they cool will inflate them to some degree.

That tek is pretty much exactly how I do it.


--------------------
A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras
Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step
Timer Modification
PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping


Edited by MasFina (10/31/09 03:50 PM)


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Offlinefundamentalchair
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Re: Perfecting Impulse Sealing [Re: MasFina]
    #11359164 - 10/31/09 08:08 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

That would be out of the open flap in an unsealed bag and out through the filter in a sealed bag.




My understanding of the 'bag' process was to wrap the bag around itself in which the bag will inflate inside the PC and then sort of vac seal itself shut. My concern comes from when the bag inflates to the point of the filter, it may be more resistance to open the bag the rest of the way than to escape the filter. However this is completely subjective hypothesis and there may be techniques that are covered to combat this that I am unaware of.

Quote:

I am just going off of what experienced growers have said and my own intuition. I don't know the science behind it, but perhaps you do




I don't question Stamets' nor your knowledge upon the field of mycology as it bests my by quite a factor. The explanation as to the reason for the correlation between pre-sealed bags and their high contamination rate (at least according to Stamets) doesn't seem to mesh with my understanding of chemistry, although I am fairly limited in that respect as well.

Quote:

It's not a problem and absolutely unavoidable.




Well, it's definitely unavoidable, but I would guess that while wet the bag would have a much lower tolerance to less-than-sterile procedures than if it were dry. However, this marginal risk is probably not worth the investigation of possible solutions, let alone the effort of actually implementing the solution.

Quote:

To inflate the bags with a flowhood before sealing is best, but if you read the spawnbag tek in the bulk sub section you can see that hanging them while they cool will inflate them to some degree.




I wish I had a flow hood :cry: or at least the money to build one. I would like to move on to bags before I get a hood, even if for just a short run to test some hypothesis that I have.

Anyhow, thanks for the tips on sealing, I'm sure I'll be using them soon.


--------------------
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit


Sclerotia FAQ... If ya ain't got any stones, grow some.

Will work for Laetiporus sulphureus culture/spores (or any other Laetiporus actually), :pm: me.

My Trade list.

Ghetto Tek: Auto FAE & Light


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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