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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: silversoul7]
    #1148167 - 12/17/02 08:46 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

****So, they should just give up their hard-earned money to pay for tanks and bombers, right?****

did i say that?

****Unless you can show me how taxes are totally unnecessary to run a government, then I fail to see why they can't go toward helping to provide others with their means of living. ****

They should only go for those aspects that protect it's people, (law enforcement, fire department, public schools, national defense, etc.) not provide them with free handouts because there are many out there that have no desire to ever work or contribute to society (there are a small minority of people that actually can't provide for themselves, those are the ones that should be taken care of)


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: silversoul7]
    #1148184 - 12/17/02 08:51 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

****Don't those rights include LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? ****

Where in there does it say free handouts?

Life: we all have it and it's all relative
Liberty: can't have it in a statist society because the rights of the individual are not taken into consideration.
Pursuit of Happiness: That is something that cannot be GIVEN to you, happiness that is. However we all have this ability even though it's all relative


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (12/17/02 08:52 AM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1148210 - 12/17/02 08:59 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

In reply to:

They should only go for those aspects that protect it's people, (law enforcement, fire department, public schools, national defense, etc.) not provide them with free handouts because there are many out there that have no desire to ever work or contribute to society (there are a small minority of people that actually can't provide for themselves, those are the ones that should be taken care of)



While I would contest the fact that those that can't provide for themselves are a "small minority," I don't have the statistics to prove it, so I won't go there. In any case, if there's a way to sort out the lazy from those that really can't support themselves, I'm all for it, but it's very difficult to define who can support themselves and who can't. For example, have you seen "Bowling for Columbine"? They talk about this one single mother who was forced to work 2 jobs by the city's "Welfare to Work" program. She had just been evicted from her apartment and moved in with her brother(I think. In any case, it was some relative), who happened to own a gun. While she was on the bus to work(around 6am I think), her 6-year-old son discovered the gun and brought it to school, then shot a classmate. I know this case is anecdotal, but it raises the question of what makes someone "incapable of supporting themselves," or more appropriately, "Is it a good idea to make her support herself?"


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1148223 - 12/17/02 09:04 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

In reply to:

Where in there does it say free handouts?



I object to the minimum requirements of living being referred to as "free handouts," but I think perhaps I made a mistake in using the Constitution and Declaration of Independence as arguments, since the writers of these documents were clearly not Socialist. This, however, doesn't mean Socialism isn't the right choice, but merely that the Constitution doesn't provide a precedent for it.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OnlineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1148682 - 12/17/02 12:13 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

In reply to:

They should only go for those aspects that protect it's people, (law enforcement, fire department, public schools, national defense, etc.)




So you believe in government funded fire departments, and public schools? shouldn't people have to pay for these things out of their own pockets. If you don't pay the fire department shouldn't they just let your house burn down? If you don't pay for education, why should you get any?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1148811 - 12/17/02 12:56 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

****So you believe in government funded fire departments, and public schools?****

I don't have to believe in it, it is reality.

****shouldn't people have to pay for these things out of their own pockets.****

we do they're called state and city taxes...keep up

****If you don't pay the fire department shouldn't they just let your house burn down?****

If you own a house you pay these taxes already, if you live in an apartment, the landlord pays these taxes.  Property taxes pay for these services.

****If you don't pay for education, why should you get any?*****

Unfortunatly everyone that has the above examples pays for education, even those that are smart enough and make enough money to send their kids to private schools...

so what was your point? :smirk:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1150435 - 12/18/02 01:41 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Once again, people, this has nothing to do with either Lott or racism... it has become a debate about Collectivism vs Individualism; force vs freedom; mob rule vs natural rights -- Socialism vs Capitalism; however you want to describe it. If you all want to get involved in an ongoing debate on EXACTLY that topic, come on over to "When you say you hate corporate America..." and you will be welcomed with open arms.

Otherwise, I suggest returning to the topic at hand... is Lott a racist himself, or was he just making a nice speech for a senile old racist monster?

pinky


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Edited by pinksharkmark (12/18/02 01:43 AM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: Phred]
    #1150438 - 12/18/02 01:49 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

****or was he just making a nice speech for a senile old racist monster?****

sorry...yes he was just trying to make an old milkshake happy.....it was still stupid to say because he should of known the PC crowd would of blown a nut.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1151592 - 12/18/02 11:58 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

If the Republicans are smart they'll get rid of him. If they don't, the entire party may be damaged, which is why I hope he stays.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: silversoul7]
    #1152349 - 12/18/02 04:35 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

personally i couldn't care less whether he stays or goes, but what i can say is that i feel the libbies are going to make this their only issue which will hinder them from trying to establisg some sort of agenda. So maybe i'd like to see him stay for that aspect alone...democrate, republican, what's the difference?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1153145 - 12/18/02 10:04 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

In reply to:

what i can say is that i feel the libbies are going to make this their only issue which will hinder them from trying to establis[h] some sort of agenda.



Indeed...I think that we have focused on it enough. The Democratic party is really in need of reform, we need some redefinition. Finger pointing really wastes time and accomplishes nothing in the longrun. I feel that the Republican party will probably be damaged from some extent if Lott continues to hold his position. While he may have been trying to blow some smoke up Thurman's ass, what he said was stupid, no matter if you agree with his comments, his remarks were stupid. The Republican party has had a longstanding minority relations problem, and while it is getting better, it is still a long way from good. If Lott continues to hold his position it will give the impression to the public that the Republican Party is tollerant to racist matters. That is hardly what they need. Bush is no dummy for asking him to step down. If Lott has any amount of intelligence he will realize that he needs to make the sacrifice and step down. No ammount of appology will erase what he said or make it right. It makes him look like Slick Willie.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1153150 - 12/18/02 10:10 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

In reply to:

They should only go for those aspects that protect it's people, (law enforcement, fire department, public schools, national defense, etc.) not provide them with free handouts




Free lunch programs for school children, what are your thoughts. Should an 8 year old child be punished because his or her mother is a crack fiend? I have a hard time letting children go hungry. There is little they can do to improve their situation, unlike adults. Not to mention the detrimental effects malnourishment has on a child's IQ. This has a pretty high economic cost does it not?


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1153168 - 12/18/02 10:27 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

just out of interest, if everryone who disagrees with you is a libby...what are you??? :grin: 


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Always Smi2le


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: GazzBut]
    #1153305 - 12/19/02 01:14 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

who said that those that don't agree with me are libbies?...wipe your tears and get back to me. :smirk:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (12/19/02 01:15 AM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1153314 - 12/19/02 01:22 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

****Free lunch programs for school children, what are your thoughts. Should an 8 year old child be punished because his or her mother is a crack fiend? ****

Well if the mother is a crack fiend then there are other problems that should be explored before the free lunch program is tackled (if you can afford crack you can afford lunch for your children).  With that said, if a parent truley cannot afford lunch for their children (which most of the time is BS in my experience) then they should be helped.  The problem is that the lunch program is given to anyone who SAYS that they can't afford it while driving a nice car.  We had people in our school that used to get free lunch while the kids bought pot with the spare money they just seemed to have.

****I have a hard time letting children go hungry.****

as do all, however that sounds more like a sound bite

****Not to mention the detrimental effects malnourishment has on a child's IQ.****

so that's the problem with public school children..i was wondering why their test scores suck :smirk:...j/k\

****This has a pretty high economic cost does it not? ****

If it's even close to being the truth, yes.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1153402 - 12/19/02 03:20 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Well if the mother is a crack fiend then there are other problems that should be explored before the free lunch program is tackled
True, there are certainly more problems than the child or children going hungry.

if you can afford crack you can afford lunch for your children
Very true, and this is a problem. How it should be tackled is a problem as well. Really and truely a child probably shouldn't be in a household shuch as this, though it may depend on your view of narcotics such as crack, and their legality and effect and cost on society, which is a subject of a whole other discussion. The problem lies in getting a parent to spend the money on food instead of crack, by what means and what cost. And if you cannot get a parent to act as a parent(ie: spend money on food and the welfare of their children) what should we do?

which most of the time is BS in my experience
Agreed.

The problem is that the lunch program is given to anyone who SAYS that they can't afford it while driving a nice car. We had people in our school that used to get free lunch while the kids bought pot with the spare money they just seemed to have.
Well not only is it a problem with the free lunch program, it is a problem with the welfare system in general. Unfortunately I think the nature of the system lends itself towards abuse. Socialized programs like welfare and the free lunch program are very similar to communism in that people are offered no motivation to do better or to increase their status. It would be a happy world if everybody aspired to do better, but many people are content with what is, even if it is living off of welfare. And shit, some people are just plain lazy. But as you said somewhere that such programs do have a purpose and do have a benifit, and there are truely people which need them.

Welfare reform has been long overdue, and that is something which I would like to see the Democratic party take up. However, I think due to many of the extremists in my party it won't happen. The Republicans many years ago, durring the Bosnian conflit I belive it was, were complaining about the US handling problems outside of the US when things here were not so great. In my eyes not much has changed, but this situation is a bit different. However I think Bush 43 may run into the same criticism down the line for not being able to balance foreign and domestic issues, just as Bush 41 did. Time will tell.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1153497 - 12/19/02 04:25 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I can't argue with anything you said. However i don't believe the democrates will be any more effective as the republicans.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineBladeLSD
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1153749 - 12/19/02 06:19 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Has anyone watched the VIdeo of what Lott actually said. He never enve mentions the word segregation. He says many of the problems we have experienced wouldnt have occured had the old guy been elected. The liberal media just had a field day on this guy. They even call the party the "segregrationist party" when it was the Dixiecrat party. If you think Lotts a racist your wrong. Why not take the old guy out Lotts a good man.

Anyone see The Simpsons where there is a springfield republican party convention, and Burns says with disney animatronics we can keep senator strohm alive for ever, and he starts dancing


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We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Lott is a racist [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1153983 - 12/19/02 07:42 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

He also voted against allowing blacks into his fraternity when he was in college. That's not racist???


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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