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Offlinekablamo
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Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 256
Loc: Japan
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Raising conscious children
    #11351106 - 10/30/09 12:58 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

:ooo:

So it seems that many people around here living a conscious lifestyle had a lot of help from psychedelics to open their minds and free themselves from their chains.  I can't speak for all of us, but I'm sure that a great deal of us were healed of many accidental detrimental imprints on our psyches.

I used to be racist, I was raised that way and everyone around me is racist.  Psychedelics showed me how we're all one and there is no "black/white" problem, there's a "dominator/dominated" problem. The system creates the behaviors that become the stereotypes of the dominated.  I understand this now and see the bigger picture, so to speak, but I haven't always.

I was also deeply programmed into Christianity, which psychedelics have wiped clean.

I also thought I was really really important. Psychedelics showed me that, yes, I am important, but nowhere NEAR as important as I thought I was.

My question and the topic I'd like to see discussed, is how do you raise a child who doesn't need psychedelics upon reaching adulthood?  How do you raise a child who's open minded, immune to criminal advertisers, sensitive to the pain of their fellow humans, and generally enlightened.

It seems to be a general consensus that babies exist in sort of an enlightened state, and that teaching them to act like humans is what spoils them and causes all of these neuroses; so how the hell can we teach them to be human without forcing them to forget or hide what innocent and playful and curious creatures they really are?

For most of the terrible confusions that are so deeply imprinted in us (religion, racism, fear of the unknown, taking life too seriously, shame of sexuality, etc.), psychedelics are the cure, the obvious, easy, quick, surefire cure to these diseases that we all inherit from our culture...

It seems that the problem is caused by an inefficient language that developed on it's own.  Maybe a language more closely resembling the real universe and what we really know about it would help a lot... anyone have any thoughts?

English prime would be great if it would catch on.


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OfflineSS32
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: kablamo]
    #11351135 - 10/30/09 01:07 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I think it has a lot to do with intelligence.  You'll find that less intelligent people are the ones to get bent out of shape over different, outside the box thinking.  I was raised in a very christian household, but I've questioned religion since day one.  I can remember sitting in church when I was ~5-6 years old asking myself, if god created everything, then what created god?  No one had an answer that made sense to me.  All psychedelics will do is help a person realize that they're not in control of everything, no matter how hard they try.  Resisting is what will cause a less than desirable trip.  Religion, racism, etc. are ways to make a person feel better about their environment:  "God will take care of me, I don't need to worry about it"..."I'm better than him because I'm white".  If you're intelligent enough to realize that not everything is in your control and mature enough to realize that that's not a bad thing, life is much easier.  As far as raising children goes, I say let them come to their own conclusions; don't force anything upon them outside of an education.  It has taken me a long time to appreciate my parents for forcing me into advanced classes as a kid, but I'm incredibly happy now and I welcome an opportunity to challenge myself and learn something new.


--------------------
Did he dream about dragons? Did he dream about deer? Did he whisper  he names of friends who were near?
What songs did they play, and how far away? Why did he whisper, why did she scream?
What does the sound of a screen door mean?
Who talks on the hill? Who goes to the cellar, can you feel the chill? Where does the river, when will the wind?
How far are the mountains? Where do they end? Why would the church?
Did the service begin? Tell me who died, and tell me who cried.
Help me hide in the skin of a deer, my zippered-up bag in the mouth of a stag so swiftly I go through rows of does,
it flows, it flows, it flows, it flows all over the hill where the green grass grows.


Edited by SS32 (10/30/09 01:14 PM)


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Offlinezombi
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: kablamo]
    #11351183 - 10/30/09 01:21 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

well as far as language goes, any system will be inherently imperfect. the fact is that a language is a compilation of symbols. once you veer from the thing you are trying to represent it loses some significance. thats why in some shamanic cultures people are not allowed to talk about their "altered state" experiences; once you try to describe it you fail.

as far as raising children, i have been thinking about this lately and im just glad i don't have kids yet. i have no idea now how one could raise a child to have the understanding that you find in people like some of those found here. i suppose you have to lead by example.

one idea i have found intriguing is that of initiation rites. there really aren't any in our society and that is thought by some to contribute to the state we are in. in too many cases there are kids raising kids. its a self perpetuating system that really makes me sad.

i've been thinking that if i have children i might have them come on a camping trip type thing when they reach.... idk 17 or so. i could have them have an entheogenic experience of some sort and try to help guide them through.

i would also definitely encourage meditation and other exercises. perhaps holotropic breathwork?

but im not sure how to overcome the paradox that some experience when they come to the conclusion through drug use that they don't need to use drugs. that is definitely something i would want to pass on to my children though.


--------------------
My words, too, are only an echo; but there is no reason why I should not repeat what I have heard.                    :zombie5:
-Socrates                                                                Let the rabbits wear glasses!
:gd_icon::trippycow::gd_icon:


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InvisibleSalomon
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: SS32]
    #11351191 - 10/30/09 01:22 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SS32 said:
"God will take care of me, I don't need to worry about itI"


:ilold:


--------------------
EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT



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Offline13.step
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: kablamo]
    #11351198 - 10/30/09 01:24 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

When i read your thread i was gonna post some stupid BS because i thought that it's just another stupid hippie rant about giving children psychedelics.:evil:

But you actually make a very interesting point.

I don't know if raising children that way would be easy or not,i doubt it would,but would you really want it?I mean babys are pure but as they grow up they get "tainted" by society if you want to look at it this way.

I just see it as them adjusting to the shit that goes on in life.You could try and raise them to be better than that but i don't really think a kid has the capacity of understanding it and you could end up with a kid that just can't fit in.And that's worse then where you started at.

What i am trying to say is that kids develop those "negative" personality traits as a response to what they are exposed to.You'd have to eliminate all the "evil" in the world in order for them to grow up enlightened,and that is besides the point in a way.


--------------------
Not to be taken seriously by any means!


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OfflineSmitington
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: 13.step]
    #11351332 - 10/30/09 01:52 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I think there are some key things you can do for your children that will lead them along the right path.  The most important thing is that children learn from their environment, so just that fact that you are more intouch with some of these important issues will have an effect upon the child.  Try to lead by example, walk your talk.  I don't believe in brainwashing children, telling them that it's this way or that way, let them learn for themselves, a parents role is that of a guide, helping their children along the way and trying to push them in the right direction.  Show them how happiness is found outside of material things, try not to feed into their natural materialism and the materialism they learn from everything else in this society.  Spend time with your child, pay attention to them, read to them.  I think just being a good parent is one of the most important parts of raising a good kid.  The truth is, there is no easy answer to the question of how shoud we raise our children, they are meant to challenge us an push us to the edge.  I sometimes watch parents interacting with their children, and I'm not sure what the reason is, whether they are just so exhuasted, or have already tried to be different, but I see all the time parents kind of ignoring what their children tell them, kinda doing one of those "oh...that's nice..." while not really listening.  You have to feed your child's mind, to many times I see children trying to learn something, and the parent kind of ignores it when they could have used the opportunity to enrich the child's mind.  I'm not ready for kids right now, but I honestly can't wait to be a parent, I think parenthood is the ultimate test of who you think you have become.  Show rather than tell, and pay attention to your child and enrich their mind.


--------------------


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Offlinequarkyquasar
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: kablamo]
    #11351491 - 10/30/09 02:17 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I love the topic!
I started tripping young and it changed my life as well for the better and to a very lesser degree for the worse.
I have 2 children, youngest born on the road the other on it for 3 years. My five year old has been to 3 national rainbow gatherings and over 20 region gatherings. She has also been to many other awesome festivals, raging beach parties, mushroom camps and inner cities. I have lived and traveled with her in a school bus with 10 other people before, traveled in a ford conversion van, and until 2 weeks ago a wonderful 30 foot 30 year old RV. Coast to coast over a dozen times, in less than 5 years of her short life. She is vegetarian, and says when she grows up she wants to be vegan...she can participate and understand in a serious conversation about the great spirit, healthy eating, drugs, violence, forest traditions, herbalism, crystals, meditation and yoga just to name a few. She has been a witness to uncountable spiritual and sacred uses of psychedelics and also recreational use.
I am sure that she wont ever "need" psychedelics to become conscience, but perhaps she my utilize them if she chooses when she is an adult. I also think that honest conversation with her about drugs in general is the best way to go, including the bad with the good of each one.
I also believe each person has their own special inner challenges no matter what life brings them as children and parents and regardless what may get imprinted on their psyche from our parenting techniques and mishaps. Its part of growing up and becoming conscience fulfilled humans.

To each his or her own.


Edited by quarkyquasar (10/30/09 02:24 PM)


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OfflineSS32
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: quarkyquasar]
    #11352146 - 10/30/09 03:57 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quarkyquasar said:
She is vegetarian, and says when she grows up she wants to be vegan...





This is what gets me:  Did she make the choice to become a vegetarian, or is she vegetarian because her parents don't eat meat?

Quote:


I also think that honest conversation with her about drugs in general is the best way to go, including the bad with the good of each one.




Absolutely 100% agree with that.  Too many people are afraid to talk to their kids about drugs because they think it makes it OK for their kids to go out and try anything.  If they're mature enough to have the conversation, I don't see a problem with talking.


--------------------
Did he dream about dragons? Did he dream about deer? Did he whisper  he names of friends who were near?
What songs did they play, and how far away? Why did he whisper, why did she scream?
What does the sound of a screen door mean?
Who talks on the hill? Who goes to the cellar, can you feel the chill? Where does the river, when will the wind?
How far are the mountains? Where do they end? Why would the church?
Did the service begin? Tell me who died, and tell me who cried.
Help me hide in the skin of a deer, my zippered-up bag in the mouth of a stag so swiftly I go through rows of does,
it flows, it flows, it flows, it flows all over the hill where the green grass grows.


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OfflineABR516
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: SS32]
    #11352668 - 10/30/09 05:31 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

just raise your kids the best you can man but let them do their own thing...in the end thats what they will do anyways

trying to indoctrinate your children one way or another is wrong....even though in this case i agree with what ud be teaching them, it really is no different than bringing them up with a certain religion....just educate them, harbor their intelligence and let them find it on their own


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Offlinekablamo
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Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 256
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: ABR516]
    #11354469 - 10/30/09 10:37 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks everybody, there's a lot of good replies here.  I remember my whole life, just like SS32, always questioning religion based on the same arguments. If God made everything, who made God and so on...

@Smitington: I remember as a child always trying to talk to my mom about things and I remember her always saying, oh wow, but not even looking at what I was showing her, and it PISSED ME OFF.  I vowed to myself to never do that to my kids.  Now I have three kids, the oldest is 4 and he's REALLY intelligent, but it's a struggle to keep his mind engaged.  Every 30 seconds the kid has some amazing thing to show us that he's figured out or he's made or drawn or built with his legos.  Each one is wonderful and deserves to be analyzed and talked about at length, but it's every 30 seconds for several years.  It's more difficult than you could possibly realize to keep a human child engaged.  If it was your full time job and you got paid for it, just to pay full attention to a child that age at all times, you would pass out from exhaustion before the first day was through.

That's why I pay as much attention as I can, and I really believe I'm a better father than my father was and I try to help my wife become a better mother than her mother was.  I think that's the best that we can hope for.  At the end all I will be able to say is that I tried as hard as I could to make them as happy with themselves and kind to others.  I think the three virtues I'd like to instill in my kids are compassion, hilaritas, and desire to seek truth.  Equipped with those ideals i think it's hard to go wrong.


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OfflineSmitington
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: kablamo]
    #11354515 - 10/30/09 10:47 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Wow, sounds like me as a child.  My Mom tells me I would talk her head off and eventually she would tell me that she just couldn't take it any more and needed to relax.  She really was a great Mom because she did pay alot attention to me and read to me and played legos with me, I think the kind of attention she gave to me and my sister contributed alot to us being intelligent.


--------------------


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OfflineGreenMachine
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: Smitington]
    #11354616 - 10/30/09 11:07 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I was introduced to psychedelics when I was 10 years old.

So I was kind of raised on their views

Doctor was all like this:syringe: will make you sleepy and you'll be awake in 30 minutes.

Except I went:hypnotic::crazy2:  :stars:  :dizope:  :epileptic:  :earthy:  :w0ahhhhmahnnn: for the next 12 hours

Totally got me interested in the energies that exist in this world


--------------------
Look behind you, do you see it?:unbelievable:


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Offlinekablamo
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Registered: 05/28/08
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: GreenMachine]
    #11355578 - 10/31/09 03:20 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

GreenMachine said:
I was introduced to psychedelics when I was 10 years old.

So I was kind of raised on their views

Doctor was all like this:syringe: will make you sleepy and you'll be awake in 30 minutes.

Except I went:hypnotic::crazy2:  :stars:  :dizope:  :epileptic:  :earthy:  :w0ahhhhmahnnn: for the next 12 hours

Totally got me interested in the energies that exist in this world



I need to hear more and more about this experience.  What did they give you, why did you need it, what did they tell you when you came back and said you'd met god and understood the universe and were turning into a giant fish?
:w0ahhhhmahnnn:


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OfflineGreenMachine
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: kablamo]
    #11355658 - 10/31/09 03:57 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

kablamo said:
Quote:

GreenMachine said:
I was introduced to psychedelics when I was 10 years old.

So I was kind of raised on their views

Doctor was all like this:syringe: will make you sleepy and you'll be awake in 30 minutes.

Except I went:hypnotic::crazy2:  :stars:  :dizope:  :epileptic:  :earthy:  :w0ahhhhmahnnn: for the next 12 hours

Totally got me interested in the energies that exist in this world



I need to hear more and more about this experience.  What did they give you, why did you need it, what did they tell you when you came back and said you'd met god and understood the universe and were turning into a giant fish?
:w0ahhhhmahnnn:




It actually was an accident, I was never supposed to trip balls until I was ready(which wouldnt have been for many years, I was a DARE kid) but hallucinations were forced upon me

I was having minor stomach surgery and they gave me an IV of VERSED, a powerful benzo.

I was supposed to pass out immediatly but didnt, and the docs knew that was a problem

I felt a very LSD-like high in about 5 minutes, I mean I was tripping out on the walls melting and other shit just morphing and pulling around me.

In about 20 minutes, I felt like the tiniest dot in a collosium sized hospital room, plus I thought I was standing up so when I looked around me, I thought I was going to fall hundreds of feet towards the sparkley/shiny/morphing walls

30 minutes in and the terror of falling/being sucked into some insane energy force, brought on the delusions that something had taken over my brain and some evil entities(the doctors and my parents) were going to take me away.

During this panic of thinking Im being abducted, everyones voice has a hellish demonic tone to them, this further terrifies me.

In the recovery room, I asked my dad what the blood pressure cuff on my arm was about 50 times in half an hour.  My mind was scrambled, I had no idea what anything was, I recognized faces but didnt understand what was going on, why I was there, or If i wasnt even really there and it was still a hallucination.

I remember the car ride home, having my dad pull over as soon as we left the hospital and puking my guts out on the sidewalk, all the while feeling like a 16 tonne weight.

Then I rested in bed for the rest of the evening/night and felt great in the morning

my folks were like, "You remember what happened?"
I said I remembered starting to hallucinate but not freaking out about demons and aliens, that all happened during my blackout,  which lasted about 6 hours.

I didnt touch any psychedelic for 8 years for fears that I would freak out even harder

But then said what the hell, everyone else seems to have a good time on them and dosed some shrooms, felt awesome, went further, all uphill from then

I just cant touch Benzos, cause i have no idea how bad the would affect me now

NEways, when I said I was raised on their views, I mean that I stopped being so judgemental on the lifestyles that people choose, I got way less uptight and started to understand people, It was like manhood initiation, go through hell and you will become a stronger person.

Even if I didnt experiance any of these revelations while the trip was going on, the effects of them lingered with me long into my life, up to now, where they will continue


--------------------
Look behind you, do you see it?:unbelievable:


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Offlineemeraldlife88
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: GreenMachine]
    #11356443 - 10/31/09 11:10 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

It is simpler than you think to raise a child in a tolerant, open-minded setting, just be yourself.
    Children WILL mock their parents. For example, why were you racist? Probably because your family was. Yes, as we get older we become our own people (well, hopefully) and will stretch away from the confines of our family, the people of "power" looming over our heads, and make some changes. Of course, how you grow up as a child usually molds who you will be as an adult. Luckily for you, the use of psychedelics changed you for the better.
  But all you have to do to make sure your child is tolerant is to just be the tolerant, understanding person you already are, and let your child see it. Don't bash others, when talking at the dinner table, let your child know you AREN'T biased against any other person or group. Just teach them by example. Of course, your children will go to school and meet other people, and their opinions may be greatly altered, and that's fine, because that's life. However, keep that connection between the two of you open. So that when your child does come home, an angsty teen, saying some ignorant nonesense they heard from someone else, you can tell them how it really is. They might not act like their listening, but they'll hear it.
  That's how I grew up, and I still am a tolerant person. Although I will say that the use of psychedelics has kept me that way, by showing me greater things. But you don't need psychedelics to be that way, thank god. All you need is an understanding family to lay the groundwork.


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Offlinequarkyquasar
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: SS32]
    #11363670 - 11/01/09 06:10 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

In response to the vegetarian question the choice we make for her is that she is only allowed to eat meat that has been hunted or raised and slaughtered by us. And the whole process of killing the animal and cleaning it has resulted in her not wanting to eat meat when we do as a family. I imagine she will choose to eat meat later in life, but if not, the happier we will be.
I don't make her kill it herself or anything, but she needs to witness and pray over the animal with us and then help her mother pluck the feathers and clean up. (in the case of chicken)


--------------------

How does a nice dose of democracy up your ass sound?
Oh, and please enjoy your new freedom if you happen to survive
....


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Offlineluckytriple6
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Re: Raising conscious children [Re: quarkyquasar]
    #11366425 - 11/02/09 01:46 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Smitington said:
I think there are some key things you can do for your children that will lead them along the right path.  The most important thing is that children learn from their environment, so just that fact that you are more intouch with some of these important issues will have an effect upon the child.  Try to lead by example, walk your talk.  I don't believe in brainwashing children, telling them that it's this way or that way, let them learn for themselves, a parents role is that of a guide, helping their children along the way and trying to push them in the right direction.  Show them how happiness is found outside of material things, try not to feed into their natural materialism and the materialism they learn from everything else in this society.  Spend time with your child, pay attention to them, read to them.  I think just being a good parent is one of the most important parts of raising a good kid.  The truth is, there is no easy answer to the question of how shoud we raise our children, they are meant to challenge us an push us to the edge.  I sometimes watch parents interacting with their children, and I'm not sure what the reason is, whether they are just so exhuasted, or have already tried to be different, but I see all the time parents kind of ignoring what their children tell them, kinda doing one of those "oh...that's nice..." while not really listening.  You have to feed your child's mind, to many times I see children trying to learn something, and the parent kind of ignores it when they could have used the opportunity to enrich the child's mind.  I'm not ready for kids right now, but I honestly can't wait to be a parent, I think parenthood is the ultimate test of who you think you have become.  Show rather than tell, and pay attention to your child and enrich their mind.




Very well put, maybe later generations will get better, it doesn't seem like it though.


Quote:

kablamo said:
Thanks everybody, there's a lot of good replies here.  I remember my whole life, just like SS32, always questioning religion based on the same arguments. If God made everything, who made God and so on...

@Smitington: I remember as a child always trying to talk to my mom about things and I remember her always saying, oh wow, but not even looking at what I was showing her, and it PISSED ME OFF.  I vowed to myself to never do that to my kids.  Now I have three kids, the oldest is 4 and he's REALLY intelligent, but it's a struggle to keep his mind engaged.  Every 30 seconds the kid has some amazing thing to show us that he's figured out or he's made or drawn or built with his legos.  Each one is wonderful and deserves to be analyzed and talked about at length, but it's every 30 seconds for several years.  It's more difficult than you could possibly realize to keep a human child engaged.  If it was your full time job and you got paid for it, just to pay full attention to a child that age at all times, you would pass out from exhaustion before the first day was through.

That's why I pay as much attention as I can, and I really believe I'm a better father than my father was and I try to help my wife become a better mother than her mother was.  I think that's the best that we can hope for.  At the end all I will be able to say is that I tried as hard as I could to make them as happy with themselves and kind to others.  I think the three virtues I'd like to instill in my kids are compassion, hilaritas, and desire to seek truth.  Equipped with those ideals i think it's hard to go wrong.




Kids are tough, they never stop, and they never have anything important to say even though they are always talking. Even so its very important to communicate with your child as much as you can stand. I was an only child for 21yrs, now I get to watch my parents raise another child and its made it so appearant how much work it is and how much patience you need.

I don't know that I should ever have a child, I don't know that I'd be a good parent. I recognize that and make sure to do all I can to not procreate, but if something happened I'd give the child all I had to give. I think since I feel that I wouldn't do well as a parent I'd put in all the more effort. I'd love to have a child someday but this world sucks and I can't see going out of my way to do so


Quote:

quarkyquasar said:
In response to the vegetarian question the choice we make for her is that she is only allowed to eat meat that has been hunted or raised and slaughtered by us. And the whole process of killing the animal and cleaning it has resulted in her not wanting to eat meat when we do as a family. I imagine she will choose to eat meat later in life, but if not, the happier we will be.
I don't make her kill it herself or anything, but she needs to witness and pray over the animal with us and then help her mother pluck the feathers and clean up. (in the case of chicken)




I think we take out food for granted and most people don't associate a life with their meat. Mushrooms have given me much more respect for what I eat. I actually stopped eating meat for a while out of respect for the animals we eat. I love meat, I finally got comfortable enough to eat meat again but I now think about the animal I'm eating.


--------------------
Let me out of this place
I'm outta place
I'm in outer space
I've just vanished without a trace
I'm going to a pretty place now where the flowers grow
I'll be back in an hour or so

[quote]Abuse said:
the dea can go fuck themselves! with the internet, the impossible is possible![/quote]


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