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 CubeBensies
Stranger
Registered: 02/16/09
Posts: 762
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 13 days
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 Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? New Pics! 
#11344864 - 10/29/09 12:10 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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So I went hunting for azures yesterday and for the first time ever, I found a mushroom that I am not sure if it is a cyan or azure. I have never found a dune cyan before, but I have seen people post pics of dune cyans, and they do look remarkably like azures. Out of all the azures that I've ever found, I've never found one with a wavy cap, however, it really doesn't look exactly like any cyans that I've found in the city.
I found this mushroom growing by itself, in a pile of driftwood pieces on a dune. I'm not sure if it was growing directly out of the wood, or from the grass and growing through the wood. I didn't realize it was going to be such a confusing mushroom until I picked it so I didn't take any pictures of it growing. It is the only one I found. Last year I found several azures growing directly out of driftwood and they still looked like azures and didn't have a wavy cap.
It also has a very acute umbo, or possibly none at all. Not every azure that I find has a big nipple-like umbo though. It doesn't have a thick white stem like the cyans I find in the city, but it doesn't have the near reddish stem like an azure. It also lacks an annular zone.
Here's the bad news though... When I found it and realized that it was different from the rest, I put it in an old deli food bag and put it in my pocket. When I got home I took it out to show to a couple of friends, along with my azure finds. I then laid out my azures to dry and in the process I forgot where I set the damn deli bag with the mushroom. So somewhere in my room is the specimen possibly turning into mush in a deli bag...
Anyways, I did take these 2 pics right after I found the mushroom. Any input is appreciated.
Edited by CubeBensies (10/29/09 02:58 PM)
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 10 hours, 15 minutes
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 Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: CubeBensies]
#11344923 - 10/29/09 12:23 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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A wavy azurescens.
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thelaughingman
Bulbous Poopaloid
Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 877
Loc: Central WA
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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How do you know its not cyanescens? Just because azures are more abundant there, or is there a way to tell them apart without the pointy factor?
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 10 hours, 15 minutes
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Doesn't quite look like a cyan.
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CubeBensies
Stranger
Registered: 02/16/09
Posts: 762
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 13 days
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Doesn't quite look like an azure either...
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 Lanc3r117
Rain
Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 286
Loc: PNW
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: CubeBensies]
#11345399 - 10/29/09 01:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Bust out your microscope if you really want to know.
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caphillkid
Coquus Boleti
Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 4,666
Loc: Jet City
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Doesn't quite look like a cyan.
That is a textbook cyan, doesn't look anything like an azure.
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coolboarderguy
Hunter and Gatherer
Registered: 10/08/07
Posts: 609
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: caphillkid]
#11345812 - 10/29/09 02:47 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can promise you thats a cyan, I find them all the time when Im hunting azures. I actually found more cyans than azures this last time. Wich brings up an interesting question, where I hunt this is this one section that only has cyans and no azures and there is tons of cyans, right accross the way there is only azures and no cyans, Makes me wonder if the soil is different or something is different between the two spots or did the cyans just take over this 20'x30' area?
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shroom360
Freak of Nature
Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 553
Loc: South Sound
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: caphillkid]
#11345833 - 10/29/09 02:50 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
caphillkid said:
That is a textbook cyan, doesn't look anything like an azure.
Yeah, I agree. That looks like a cyan.
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CubeBensies
Stranger
Registered: 02/16/09
Posts: 762
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 13 days
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: shroom360]
#11345858 - 10/29/09 02:56 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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NEW PICS!!!
I cleaned the shit out of my apartment and found the specimen under question. It got its stipe a bit broken in my pocket, but I took a couple of pictures of it quarter dried. Along with an azure and a cyan that were picked yesterday.
Pics 1 and 2: Specimen under question
Pics 3 and 4: Side by side comparison, Azure on left, Specimen in middle, Cyan on right
Thanks again for everyones input!
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thetonebone72
Hunter -Gatherer
Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 1,125
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: CubeBensies]
#11345955 - 10/29/09 03:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Looks like exactly like the dune cyans I find...
 
They start out kinda lookin' like azures
but they usually get at least a little wavy at maturity
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Hunt On, Good Fellow
  
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CubeBensies
Stranger
Registered: 02/16/09
Posts: 762
Loc: PNW
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Those are really cool looking. I never see cyans with such distinct umbos growing in urban landscaping, I wonder if it is the substrate that makes them that way? These 2 species, azurescens and cyanescens must have extremely similar genetics.
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Tikaani
ally
Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 398
Loc: pnw
Last seen: 24 days, 15 hours
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I insist, the photographs you show are definitely Psilocybe azurescens; Have fun spreading those spores!!!
 
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caphillkid
Coquus Boleti
Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 4,666
Loc: Jet City
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: Tikaani]
#11346442 - 10/29/09 04:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tikaani said:
I insist, the photographs you show are definitely Psilocybe azurescens; Have fun spreading those spores!!!
Which photographs? Those are all cyans except that one specimen in CubeBensies' 2nd to last post.
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deadhead777
Eptokozmism!
Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 170
Loc: Mars duuuude
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: Tikaani]
#11346486 - 10/29/09 04:37 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tikaani said:
I insist, the photographs you show are definitely Psilocybe azurescens; Have fun spreading those spores!!!
How can one be so sure this is an azurescens, I'm very interested on how to properly distinguish the two (if this is, in fact, an azurescens.)
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Take me to a circus tent!
Where I can easily pay my rent!
And all the other freaks will share my cares!
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thelaughingman
Bulbous Poopaloid
Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 877
Loc: Central WA
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: caphillkid]
#11346500 - 10/29/09 04:40 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think the mushroom posted by op looked like it could be a cyan. But those pics tone just posted look like azures to me. Cause of those umbos.
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thelaughingman
Bulbous Poopaloid
Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 877
Loc: Central WA
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Actually i kinda take that back, the azures ive noticed have more a pointy nipple where cyans umbos look more broad. Those are like big dome umbos that flatten out with age. So actually i think those are cyans.
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sporeRider
Proud sporeRider :)
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 5,030
Loc: usa 
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Quote:
I can promise you thats a cyan, I find them all the time when Im hunting azures. I actually found more cyans than azures this last time. Wich brings up an interesting question, where I hunt this is this one section that only has cyans and no azures and there is tons of cyans, right accross the way there is only azures and no cyans, Makes me wonder if the soil is different or something is different between the two spots or did the cyans just take over this 20'x30' area?
Like said here- i read -cant remember exact book now - but a mind quote"Gartz found complete reproductive barriers between azurenscens and cyans" - n this coolboarder guy seems to know his shit- and as he said - id believe this is the truth - if they touch they'd fight and only one would prob prevail - but if you think of it- no one has ever posted a pic of a cluster of cyans or azures - withthe other species inbetween?
I think other species like galerina could populatethe same exact spot - but these two majic beauties just don't get along i guess
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http://
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Tikaani
ally
Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 398
Loc: pnw
Last seen: 24 days, 15 hours
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: sporeRider]
#11347365 - 10/29/09 06:49 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
but these two majic beauties just don't get along i guess
I believe the two specie are very closely alike, hence the same genera, yet have very distinct and minute differences which would make them compete for a particular residence and only one would be able to inhabit the space because they are sourcing the same nutrient. Galerina would perhaps be sourcing different material and this may explain the presence of this specie along with certain Psilocybe specie.
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sporeRider
Proud sporeRider :)
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 5,030
Loc: usa
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: Tikaani]
#11347497 - 10/29/09 07:09 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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yup - and the proof is in the "no pics" ever - showing clusters of azures with cyans right in the middle - or vise versa - a super cluster like that would make a real cool pic tho
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http://
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CubeBensies
Stranger
Registered: 02/16/09
Posts: 762
Loc: PNW
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: sporeRider]
#11348021 - 10/29/09 08:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
wiscokid said:
yup - and the proof is in the "no pics" ever - showing clusters of azures with cyans right in the middle - or vise versa - a super cluster like that would make a real cool pic tho
I do remember reading an old post of mjshroomer's showing Azures and cyans growing with each other. Since he is banned and deleted all his pics it could be difficult to dig up though.
Thanks again for everyones input on this mushrooms Identity. I am leaning towards that it is my first ever dune cyan find.
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deadhead777
Eptokozmism!
Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 170
Loc: Mars duuuude
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: CubeBensies]
#11348053 - 10/29/09 08:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
CubeBensies said:
Quote:
wiscokid said:
yup - and the proof is in the "no pics" ever - showing clusters of azures with cyans right in the middle - or vise versa - a super cluster like that would make a real cool pic tho
I do remember reading an old post of mjshroomer's showing Azures and cyans growing with each other. Since he is banned and deleted all his pics it could be difficult to dig up though.
Thanks again for everyones input on this mushrooms Identity. I am leaning towards that it is my first ever dune cyan find.
Azures right.
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Take me to a circus tent!
Where I can easily pay my rent!
And all the other freaks will share my cares!
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CubeBensies
Stranger
Registered: 02/16/09
Posts: 762
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 13 days
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: deadhead777]
#11348096 - 10/29/09 08:33 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can't see your pic
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deadhead777
Eptokozmism!
Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 170
Loc: Mars duuuude
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: CubeBensies]
#11348120 - 10/29/09 08:36 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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--------------------
Take me to a circus tent!
Where I can easily pay my rent!
And all the other freaks will share my cares!
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CubeBensies
Stranger
Registered: 02/16/09
Posts: 762
Loc: PNW
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: deadhead777]
#11348180 - 10/29/09 08:45 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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The link says forbidden, but I typed in www.mushroomjohn.org/pscyan and clicked on pscyan3 and it looks quite apparent that they are growing right next to each other.
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sporeRider
Proud sporeRider :)
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 5,030
Loc: usa
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: CubeBensies]
#11348327 - 10/29/09 09:00 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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thanks for the good link - i still thinnk thats one badass cyan patch n mj's pic - with half being fuly mature n wavy - and the other batch just a lil younger yet but looking healthy as fuck? - Those look pretty big n fat for azures - but regardless - These two species kick major major ass
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http://
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deadhead777
Eptokozmism!
Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 170
Loc: Mars duuuude
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: CubeBensies]
#11348953 - 10/29/09 10:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
CubeBensies said:
The link says forbidden, but I typed in www.mushroomjohn.org/pscyan and clicked on pscyan3 and it looks quite apparent that they are growing right next to each other.
Wow that's weird, it showed up earlier but upon inspecting my previous post right now it doesn't work hmm.
Maybe shroomery didn't only ban mjshroomer, but they banned everything relating to mjshroomer
Jihad!
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Take me to a circus tent!
Where I can easily pay my rent!
And all the other freaks will share my cares!
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coolboarderguy
Hunter and Gatherer
Registered: 10/08/07
Posts: 609
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Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: deadhead777]
#11351548 - 10/30/09 12:26 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I found last week a couple azures growing in the cyan patch but only 1 or 2 and it was very rare to see. I took a picture its a bit blurry and I have to dig it up so I can post it.
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sacred_mushroom
Growing now
Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 352
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 3 months, 1 day
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Doesn't quite look like a cyan.
.. Looks just like every Cyan I've ever seen 
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Older and wiser, but not old and not wise.
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Tikaani
ally
Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 398
Loc: pnw
Last seen: 24 days, 15 hours
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 Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: CubeBensies]
#11379637 - 11/03/09 07:59 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The link says forbidden, but I typed in www.mushroomjohn.org/pscyan and clicked on pscyan3 and it looks quite apparent that they are growing right next to each other.
Well, as Wiscokid suspected, the photographs in the link are all Psilocybe cyanescens as labeled. In photograph three, the specimens positioned at the right which are showing the typical broad and low umbo for a Psilocybe azurescens or immature Psilocybe cyanescens. The fact of which the specimens are fruiting in such high numbers within the small area would indicate the entire group is Psilocybe cyanescens because the more mature examples displaying the typical striate margin providing a very typical clue. The fact of the matter is that the two specie, P. cyanescens and P. azurescens, are are found to be macroscopically alike and would sometimes require further analysis to be certain. Hopefully this helps!
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deadhead777
Eptokozmism!
Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 170
Loc: Mars duuuude
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: Tikaani]
#11379703 - 11/03/09 08:07 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I do believe the specimens on the right are azurescens, if they were cyans I think we'd see a greater variation in the ages of the larger fruiting bodies. Most of them appear to be mature (or at least a good number) and resemble P. Azurescens.
Read around on his site and he states that they are in fact azures 
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Take me to a circus tent!
Where I can easily pay my rent!
And all the other freaks will share my cares!
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman
Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: deadhead777]
#11379725 - 11/03/09 08:10 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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cyans. to me its rather clear.
the stem is clearly meatier. and they are wavey. not flat and sauserful.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 10 hours, 15 minutes
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: deadhead777]
#11379799 - 11/03/09 08:18 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Maybe shroomery didn't only ban mjshroomer, but they banned everything relating to mjshroomer
Its on his end, you can't access mushroomjohn.org if you have shroomery as your referrer.
We had to ban him because he was _too_ good at identifying mushrooms and he was making us all look bad by comparison.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman
Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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its true
hes suck a badass mofo. we just had to let him fly solo 
anyhoo
the more i look at it the more i wonder what is making people wonder if these are azuresences. they look nothing like any azie iv ever run across
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sporeRider
Proud sporeRider :)
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 5,030
Loc: usa
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: notapillow]
#11380285 - 11/03/09 09:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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one more thing- if those are indeed cyans and azures in mj's pic - they are still growing side by side patches tho - not a cluster of cyans with and azures right in the middle - im diggin thru my books now to find that quote i thought of They are very similar - but i believe i read they have "reproductive barriers" ?? im diggn now
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http://
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coolboarderguy
Hunter and Gatherer
Registered: 10/08/07
Posts: 609
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: sporeRider]
#11385212 - 11/04/09 03:50 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can assure you that the ones on the right are azures. Azures have much meatier stems in the dunes than cyans. Cyan stems are always thinner and way more brittle. The caps would not be so umbo on the mature specimins. Yup there is no doubt in my mind and I know my azures.
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Theylikethatshit
AKA Sno0py
Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 900
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Im positive its a cyan, I find single wild cyans looking identical to that with the lines and everything.
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REST IN PEACE pirateseatsouls
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman
Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Quote:
coolboarderguy said:
I can assure you that the ones on the right are azures. Azures have much meatier stems in the dunes than cyans. Cyan stems are always thinner and way more brittle. The caps would not be so umbo on the mature specimins. Yup there is no doubt in my mind and I know my azures.
i have found the exact oposite of this to be true
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coolboarderguy
Hunter and Gatherer
Registered: 10/08/07
Posts: 609
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: notapillow]
#11388476 - 11/04/09 11:46 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Every single cyan out there I can almost bend at the base and this will snap them off for the most part, they are also a lot thinner stems, I mean the azurescen grows to much greater sizes than the cyan too. Especially on averag. Azures are just more meatier in general
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FondaCox
Ms.firstrecipientofaPMBanEVER
Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 15,275
Loc: CanoooooooDIA
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i've never found azures, but my cyans' stems grow as thick as my thumb with caps as big as my palm late in the season 
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coolboarderguy
Hunter and Gatherer
Registered: 10/08/07
Posts: 609
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: FondaCox]
#11388618 - 11/05/09 12:32 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ive never seen them much bigger than 15 grams wet in the dunes, azures however not uncommon to see 35 gram ones. I have one spot where they grow with in 20 feet from eachother so I can compare directly but then again who knoows about other places, what the biggest cyan you guys have found?
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FondaCox
Ms.firstrecipientofaPMBanEVER
Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 15,275
Loc: CanoooooooDIA
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coolboarderguy
Hunter and Gatherer
Registered: 10/08/07
Posts: 609
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: FondaCox]
#11388649 - 11/05/09 12:41 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Damn that is a huge cyan shit very nice. But on average they arent that size right?
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shroom360
Freak of Nature
Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 553
Loc: South Sound
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I've never found cyanescens in the dunes before but I've noticed that when they grow up through grass the stems are a lot thinner. IME azures have much larger stems, longer and thicker.
My biggest cyan was only 10 grams...I can't seem to find those giants.
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CubeBensies
Stranger
Registered: 02/16/09
Posts: 762
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 13 days
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? New Pics! [Re: CubeBensies]
#11428636 - 11/10/09 08:03 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I went to the coast again today and found another dune cyan. This one was also growing by itself, but this time instead of growing out of a driftwood pile with "regular" dune grass, this one was growing out of tall "normal" grass in a bunch of scotch broom next to a closed road.
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Tikaani
ally
Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 398
Loc: pnw
Last seen: 24 days, 15 hours
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Re: Wavy Azure or Dune Cyan? [Re: shroom360]
#11429058 - 11/10/09 09:10 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
IME azures have much larger stems, longer and thicker.
Definitely not a growth parameter rule; I have found the size and stature of the Psilocybe azurescens extremely veritable and dependent on many variables including surrounding plant specie, living and nonliving, humus composition, and weather conditions. Some fully mature specimens display a cap less than a centimeter in diameter and others over four inches! The stems develop and factor the surrounding plant specie especially. Well, I hope this opens the minds to the knowledge that is all encompassing! Much love brothers! Spread those spores!
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