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OfflineNoteworthy
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The Point of Life
    #11344227 - 10/29/09 11:48 AM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Ok so this is the latest and greatest perspective on the Point of Life.

The point to something is considered the reason for it being so. The point of something is determined by the agent that makes it so. If something happens accidentally, or without any agent's determination, then it cannot be said to have a point. So whenever an agent does something/controls the world to be a certain way (these phrases have the same meaning), the 'motive of that agent' is the 'point of that action/event'. This is an a-priori truth. For every action that comes from a motive, an event occurs that has a point.

So if I ask about the point of life, I might mean the point of life overall, or the point of 'my life'. I might be wondering about the point of humanity, or I might be wondering what is the point of all the things that I have done in my life/continue to do/may do one day?

So as for the point of life in general, you might think it is a false question, if you believe that the universe came into being without any thinking agent.
If you believe that life was devised for a reason, then we must ask: how would we work out the answer to this question? If we stumble across a design, we can tell, perhaps, that it was designed (I dont personally agree with this argument, but many people are affected by it so I will entertain the notion). How do we tell what the design is for? Well it might be obvious, for example, if we found a clock, because we all know what a clock is. Intrinsic to our understanding that something was designed, usually, is our understanding that it has a known purpose. But it is obviously common to find things that have unknown uses whilst being clearly, designed.
Now, the agent of life, do they leave much indication of the purpose of their action? What do we know of their motive? Well, nothing, unless we chose arbitrarily to take one person's word over another. Islam or Mayan? mmmHard choice...
So we can look at the design and see if we see any function or place in a larger scheme of designs.
Look!
Humanity.
Theres a fine design.
What is the point of them?

Indigenous peoples all across the world tell us that they understand their purpose to be, to take care of the natural environment, and to live in harmony with it. They seem to be doing this. They develop strong social bonds and use their hands for all kids of manipulations, and exist at the top of the food chain. However, they can eat everything, and so they appreciate all levels of the ecosystem. They dance, make art, and create new patterns of behavior in all of the spheres of their life. They often have periods of comfortable living and thus have time to think about many things that are not to do with survival. The point of their actions may be anything. Their point in the larger scheme of things however is often as a social group that is prey to everything, due to its constant creative behavior.

Humans are very effective though and after a certain point began creating their own environments, and detatching themselves from the ecosystem. They develop new technologies, art, and civilisation.

Modern civilisation. They are reproducing at astonishing rates due to medicine and peace. They require more and more resources and have less and less by the year. They engage in a range of behaviors to entertain eachother, attain power, and provide food, in their own artificial ecosystems.

They do so many things for so many reasons, and yet, they stop, and wonder, 'what is the reason for it all?'. As if the reasons they had were not good enough. Well of course, that is because sometimes the reason we do things is to stay alive. What is the reason to stay alive?

Well I would assume it is.. to be able to fulfil more motives.. to be able to acheive more things for more numerous reasons.

But what about life in gggeneral? Well life in general.. we are expanding our reign towards ultimate doom. Hmm is that our purpose? Maybe that is not what we were meant to be doing? Let's ask other cultures that arent plagued by this growth and construction disease: "Ya you are meant to live in harmony with the earth"

Well its damn to late for that! humanity as a whole has fucked up there. If there was a thoughtful agent of life, and the intention of humanity was to live in harmony with nature, we have failed that purpose. So the agent is clearly not perfect, and thus our own imperfections can be justified.
But assuming the thoughtful agent of life was perfect, then whatever we are doing would have to be our point. Seems like Our point then is to keep doing what we are doing.

And this just brings us to the question: what is the point of the things we do?
Anyone can ask this question, be they non-spiritualists/atheists, or spiritualists/believers.

And we can give answers to many of them. I tied my shoe so that there was a lower chance of them ending up in such a way that I would trip over. I went to work so that I could keep my job and thus secure pay, and I get this pay so that I can choose from the options in society. I avoid certain things so that I can stay alive. For example, I avoid jumping off bridges or driving off piers into the ocean or eating brightly coloured berries in a foreign field. I want to stay alive so that I can keep doing things in order to attain enjoyment or contentment.

A lot of people spend so much time working towards things they don't understand the point to though. They work towards getting lots of money, for example, or fame. And they tally up what they are gaining and they are rising the ranks but in the end they don't know what the point of living is for. And so they might ask religion: I managed to buy a second car.. but... what is the point of it all?

Or perhaps they are struggling to get a job, or trying to get through school, and theyre wondering 'what is the point?'. This is a valid question indeed. But then people give answers 'the point is so that you can get a job' or 'so that you can earn money' etc. This of course is not really the reason. The reason you get a job is so that you have the opportunity to acheive other things with the money you earn.

And so the point of everything you do is to attain enjoyment and contentment (for yourself or for loved ones), or to secure yourself the opportunity to do so in the future.

The point of life as a whole is either:
Not meant to be known
whatever we are doing at the moment
Or something else.

If it is something else, how are we meant to know what it is without arbitrarily picking a religion?
Well we can look to indigenous people, living most primitively, and thus closest to the way humans have always existed. They are living in harmony with the earth. So you can take that as a source of purpose for your actions, if you can understand that it is important to preserve the earth.

And otherwise? Well.. Make it up! You can't possibly be expected to read god's mind. If you are non-spiritualist, then it doesnt really matter what you do, does it? so at least if you make it up, then you get to decide the point of your existance!

And otherwise, you can just follow society and be a part of the giant system that rapes the earth. In this case, it is at least important to use the system to one's own ends, and not just be part of other people's schemes.

ps. I actually spoke to God, or my spirit guide, or heaven's tech support, or whatever it was, once. It told me that the point of life was simply to love eachother, and that human ambitions and intelligence was only good if it helps to acheive love, in the end.
Eventually the DMT wore off... But at any rate my objective in life waspreviously to use my ambition and intelligence to acheive great things. I am not an all-loving person, but this way I see the greatest acheivement as being to unite the world more. So I can just keep doing what I'm doing, and still abide by God's personally gifted Law.
:billymaythumbup:


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Edited by Noteworthy (10/29/09 05:12 PM)


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Offlinetraviedigital
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11345742 - 10/29/09 04:35 PM (8 years, 22 days ago)

noteworthy,

you always have good things to say



I like what your saying here, right on the button, IMO

Quote:

Noteworthy said:

And so the point of everything you do is to attain enjoyment and contentment (for yourself or for loved ones), or to secure yourself the opportunity to do so in the future.

The point of life as a whole is either:
Not meant to be known
whatever we are doing at the moment
Or something else.







Really like this part, and couldn't agree more. Life is about having fun , but you gotta work to secure that opportunity.


Amen brotha :mushroom2:


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OfflineBeatles
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: traviedigital]
    #11347842 - 10/29/09 09:54 PM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Or explore the infinite amount of possibilities!


--------------------
“Universal Truth is Not Measured in Mass Appeal.....”


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11350277 - 10/30/09 08:29 AM (8 years, 21 days ago)

Life is such a broad subject. Very much like the saying Beauty is in the eye of the beholder., Life's Purpose is in the eyes of the living.

Because of all the varying definitions of Life, I find myself trying to define it in a more absolute sense; a wholesome definition that can apply to all. Biologically, we are built for 3 things: to live, to die, and to procreate. Metaphysically, we have a purpose to think, or to question. We are very lively, sexual, and curious creatures. Collectively, we progress indefinitely. Mankind is a continual advancement, in number, intellect, and understanding.

So, individually, as units of our species, we have a duty to progress under the parameters of nature. So, we must continue to learn, question, and multiply.


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11351054 - 10/30/09 12:42 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

Over the past year or so, I've been beginning to subscribe to the idea that there is no point to life.  I'm here, now, and that's all I know for sure.  Of course, I wouldn't discount the idea that there is a point to life, but I'm sure of the fact that I can't know the point of life for sure, so surely, there's no point in me concerning myself with the point of life (did you get all that?).  With this philosophy in mind, I plan to just go where my life takes me, enjoying as much of it as I possibly can, while maintaining a balance between fun, work, self-improvement, drug use, family time, and so on.  The key here is the balance part - I find that necessary in my life.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: pothead_bob]
    #11351162 - 10/30/09 01:15 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

"Why do some people wonder what the point of life is; all their life? ..thus making that the very tragicomic point of their lives?"
~ Unknown .. :p


Edited by Gomp (10/30/09 01:27 PM)


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Gomp]
    #11351197 - 10/30/09 01:24 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

Because they find it hard to believe that all of 'this' happened by chance and that there is not point?

Simply considering that there is no point to all of this is blasphemous in their mind because it would invalidate the very fiber of what makes up their belief system.  Chances are that everything they do and think about boils down to their belief that there is some point, some reason to keep getting up for work each morning, some reason to keep saving for retirement, some reason to get in shape, or whatever. 

That all may or may not be true, but it's a thought.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: pothead_bob]
    #11351204 - 10/30/09 01:26 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

It was meant as a phun...


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Gomp]
    #11351221 - 10/30/09 01:30 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

well, now you know anyway :grin:


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11351402 - 10/30/09 02:02 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

Life becomes meaningful if we use it to help relieve misfortune of those around us.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11351677 - 10/30/09 02:42 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

I guess for you there needs to be a point.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleCameron
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11352427 - 10/30/09 04:48 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

The point is to :blah:


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Invisibletrip forever
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Cameron]
    #11353860 - 10/30/09 08:51 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

The point is to not give a shit about the point and just live. Don't get too caught up in the future enjoy your time while you can.


--------------------


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Icelander]
    #11354508 - 10/30/09 10:45 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I guess for you there needs to be a point.:satansmoking:




actually I think most people 'need' a point. I personally do not subscribe to any point, but feel, as I hoped that I expressed in this post, that understanding the point of humanity is likely to only be found by simply looking at what humans do and value (rather than trying to detatch what humans do and think from their supposed 'divine' purpose). Still, society is made of many people and most of them need a point. People who decide there is no point are sort of like celebants... denying themselves a natural function of their body because they feel it is not helpful. When humans are surrounded with point, with reason, they live in the healthiest state. I don't think I should have to back that point up either, it is merely the real and significant effect of placebo.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11354639 - 10/30/09 11:11 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

So then it comes down to (for someone like me) does my point really serve me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Icelander]
    #11354723 - 10/30/09 11:32 PM (8 years, 21 days ago)

what does anything serve you? if there is no point in life, then at least the point of all the things you do is to feel happy or something like that.
And that is exactly what having a point does. Merely asserting, or believing, or being inclined to accept, that one's existance is fulfilling something, signals to the body whatever placebos do.

I find it interesting that the whole 'power of the mind' is becoming popular in medicine but at the same time, no one really has any idea how the power of the mind could make a person healthier, given the evolutionary account of biology, whereby every function must have been beneficial or at least been brought about by other beneficial changes in an organism.

How is it beneficial for people to become sick when they arent happy?
well this isnt really teh approach the evolutionary model would take. It would ask: what is the benefit of being more healthy when happy?
but as soon as you accept that some system could be in place to improve health, the evolutionary account predicts that it should occur all the time, because people who experience this effect even when unhappy, would thus have a survival advantage.

what say you about the placebo effect?

I mean you do not have to believe in some mumbo jumbo to accept that it conflicts with naturalist ideas?


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11355830 - 10/31/09 06:03 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Yeah the personal subjective point to my life is to enjoy it.

As to the placebo effect, I find it very interesting and have wittnessed it many times. After thinking about it long and hard I think it's effect on the body is to reduce physical and mental tension. This allows the bodies self regulating and healing mechanisms to work to full advantage. Most illness IMO, in modern culture, finds a willing host in the stressed out individual.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Icelander]
    #11356774 - 10/31/09 12:36 PM (8 years, 20 days ago)

you put it down to lower overall levels of stress hormones in people who believe they are getting treatment than those who dont?\

I think that would be testable


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11356924 - 10/31/09 01:09 PM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Let me know what you find out.:laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: The Point of Life [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11356964 - 10/31/09 01:18 PM (8 years, 20 days ago)

If every creation is destroyed, what reason is there to find purpose in the creation?
Perhaps confusion?
We feel the creations temporaryness & wish to know whats the point in the first place...

Creation is an expression, i feel the expression is the purpose itself
Its self explanatory, expression, experience, we love it

I should have read your entire post, i apologize

:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


Edited by Chronic7 (10/31/09 01:24 PM)


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