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OfflineTrancedShroom
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Well, No more lynching minorities...
    #11339677 - 10/28/09 03:52 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Obama just enriched hate crime laws.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: TrancedShroom]
    #11339690 - 10/28/09 03:54 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

obama did something?


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OfflineMchaggis
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: learningtofly]
    #11339693 - 10/28/09 03:55 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

damn what'll I do on sundeys affer church? :redneck: :camaro: :fried food:


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InvisibleSet
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: learningtofly]
    #11339711 - 10/28/09 03:57 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
obama did something?



:curbyourenthusiasm:


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InvisibleSalomon
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Mchaggis]
    #11339721 - 10/28/09 03:58 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

:rolleyes::ilold:


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InvisibleRationalEgo
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: TrancedShroom]
    #11339741 - 10/28/09 04:01 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TrancedShroom said:
Obama just enriched hate crime laws.




You mean he attacked the right to free speech?

This does not surprise me.

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OfflineSprezzatura
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: TrancedShroom]
    #11339750 - 10/28/09 04:03 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

How exactly were they enriched?


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Sprezzatura]
    #11339770 - 10/28/09 04:05 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

its now a federal crime to assault someone based on sexual orientation


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OfflineTrancedShroom
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: learningtofly]
    #11339835 - 10/28/09 04:14 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Sucks too. I was going on a good ole fag drag Saturday.


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OfflineChubba
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: learningtofly]
    #11339862 - 10/28/09 04:17 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

its now a federal crime to assault someone based on sexual orientation




Fair enough, if you attack someone for that reason you deserve to have the book thrown at you.

Doesn't mean you would be charged under the hate crime if you bash a gay person though does it? So long as it isn't for them being gay and another reason?

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Chubba]
    #11339873 - 10/28/09 04:18 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, well that's how it's supposed to work.


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OfflineChubba
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: learningtofly]
    #11339892 - 10/28/09 04:21 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Well that seems fair.

Do people do organized hate crimed assaults on gay people?

Does yelling out "I'm going to bash you, you bloody queer" as you're attacking them for something unrelated like them keying your car make you liable for a hate crime?

Seems to hard to judge unless there's specific anti-gay bashing groups roaming around causing havoc.

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OfflineSprezzatura
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: learningtofly]
    #11339937 - 10/28/09 04:25 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Well, it should be against the law to assault someone for no apparent reason... but I disagree with "Hate Crime" laws.


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Spectaculorum procedere debet





:mushroom2: :beer:

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OfflineLucidx
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Sprezzatura]
    #11339982 - 10/28/09 04:30 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Hate crimes a hypocrisy

Because our rights are being raped I choose to... Rage Against the Machine



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Offlinebigredkarlwithak
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Sprezzatura]
    #11339994 - 10/28/09 04:31 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

its good to know a strait white man can still drag me down the street till im torn apart by the pavement and wont spend his life in prison

this fucking racism crime shit is bull shit any one who does that shit deserves to fry


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OfflineSprezzatura
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: bigredkarlwithak]
    #11340036 - 10/28/09 04:36 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bigredkarlwithak said:
its good to know a strait white man can still drag me down the street till im torn apart by the pavement and wont spend his life in prison

this fucking racism crime shit is bull shit any one who does that shit deserves to fry




if by 'torn apart by the pavement' you mean Killed... then there does stand the possibility of him serving said sentences.


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Spectaculorum procedere debet





:mushroom2: :beer:

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OfflineLucidx
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: bigredkarlwithak]
    #11340051 - 10/28/09 04:37 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

IMO, Murder is murder, doesn't matter if hate is involved.

White On Black
White On White
Black On Black
Black On White

Should all be the same, we are all equal and our ideology should not play into our sentence or our trial.

Murder is Murder.


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OfflineTrancedShroom
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Lucidx]
    #11340111 - 10/28/09 04:45 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I think South Park's episode on hate crimes sizes it all up.


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OfflineSprezzatura
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Lucidx]
    #11340139 - 10/28/09 04:49 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lucidx said:
IMO, Murder is murder, doesn't matter if hate is involved.

White On Black
White On White
Black On Black
Black On White

Should all be the same, we are all equal and our ideology should not play into our sentence or our trial.

Murder is Murder.




My Uncle was a Defense Attorney for many years, and an unprovoked murder is "cold-blooded murder", and usually carries a rather high sentence (depending on state, Prosecutor, Jury and Judge) no matter what crazy motivation behind it was.


A woman killed by her husband, who caught her cheating on him in his bed, in the state of Texas, will get a lot less of a sentence than some stranger who just decided to kill you on the street.

"Hate Crimes" = ACLU Neo-Liberal apologist hypocritical bullshit.


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Lucidx]
    #11340159 - 10/28/09 04:52 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lucidx said:
IMO, Murder is murder, doesn't matter if hate is involved.

White On Black
White On White
Black On Black
Black On White

Should all be the same, we are all equal and our ideology should not play into our sentence or our trial.

Murder is Murder.



Bullshit, motive has everything to do with it.

Accidentally killing another person in a fight isn't the same thing as going around killing people just because of some bullshit personal ethics.


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Invisiblesui
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Sprezzatura]
    #11340162 - 10/28/09 04:53 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

i think its stupid. its aleady a crime to hurt someone, why make it more illegal? it makes no sense.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: sui]
    #11340181 - 10/28/09 04:56 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

cuz its easier just to to tack on more punishment than actually do anything :shrug:


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OfflineChubba
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: sui]
    #11340234 - 10/28/09 05:03 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

i think its stupid. its aleady a crime to hurt someone, why make it more illegal? it makes no sense.




I don't believe all assaults are equal.

If you go around assaulting strangers with no provocation for things like sexual orientation, race, religion etc, I believe you're a big danger to society.

As opposed to say someone that committs an assault because you insulted his GF.

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OfflineSprezzatura
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: sui]
    #11340242 - 10/28/09 05:04 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I'm a fair minded person, but the 'hate crime' legislation generates too many potential fail-spots, pigeon holes, and loopholes, not to mention abuse; ex. if a gay man is beaten up for pissing off a straight guy, instead of normal fair sentencing, the gay man can say it was a 'hate crime'.
I think the problem lies more in the judicial system than legislation... Judges need to be reviewed more strictly and kicked off the bench if they're obviously handing out ludicrous sentences.


My 2 cents.


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OfflineSprezzatura
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Chubba]
    #11340257 - 10/28/09 05:06 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Chubba, I feel you, but in court, an attorney could argue that insulting his girlfriend was provoking and even assault whereas beating someone for being gay, was unprovoked.  The hate crime law is just not necessary because a sensible court will be able to decipher the differences.


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Spectaculorum procedere debet





:mushroom2: :beer:

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OfflineTrancedShroom
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Sprezzatura]
    #11340262 - 10/28/09 05:07 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I beat up a ghey before. Didn't realize it until the next day.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Chubba]
    #11340271 - 10/28/09 05:08 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Chubba said:
I don't believe all assaults are equal.

If you go around assaulting strangers with no provocation for things like sexual orientation, race, religion etc, I believe you're a big danger to society.

As opposed to say someone that committs an assault because you insulted his GF.





I have to disagree, why cant the guy and his GF just walk away

if the guy assaults the GF is it an assault if the BF retaliates, I'd hope
that decision would be no as he was doing it in defense of another that
was less capable of fending off an attacker but when words are all that's
considered provocation then the guy committing the assault needs to be jailed

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OfflineSprezzatura
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: TrancedShroom]
    #11340277 - 10/28/09 05:09 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

:laugh:


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:mushroom2: :beer:

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OfflineChubba
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Sprezzatura]
    #11340289 - 10/28/09 05:10 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Chubba, I feel you, but in court, an attorney could argue that insulting his girlfriend was provoking and even assault whereas beating someone for being gay, was unprovoked.  The hate crime law is just not necessary because a sensible court will be able to decipher the differences.




So you're saying that the laws simply shouldn't exist and the judge/jury would fairly decide on each individual basis? We don't hear of hate crimes much in Australia, so I'm not sure what peanlities apply.

Quote:

have to disagree, why cant the guy and his GF just walk away




He can walk away, the guy is most definitely in the wrong for assaulting someone in response for a verbal attack and should be sentenced accordingly.

If I was judge though and you put these 2 scenarios in front of me, the guy who chose to assault someone based on their "xyz" with no provocation would get the harsher penalty.

Surely you don't believe they're equal?

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Sprezzatura]
    #11340316 - 10/28/09 05:14 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sprezzatura said:
Chubba, I feel you, but in court, an attorney could argue that insulting his girlfriend was provoking





some areas may allow the 'fighting words' defense, most will not

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OfflineChubba
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11340326 - 10/28/09 05:15 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not saying the guy was in the right, I absolutely hate those people and they should be punished.

Just saying it's the lesser evil then the guy that has no provocation.

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OfflineSprezzatura
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11340331 - 10/28/09 05:16 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

all depends on how much you're willing to pay for an attorney.


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Spectaculorum procedere debet





:mushroom2: :beer:

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Chubba]
    #11340343 - 10/28/09 05:18 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Chubba said:
Surely you don't believe they're equal?





violence is violense, 'fighting words' are nothing more than an arrempt to
provoke the idiots to respond, if you're too stupid to walk away then
you're really too stupid to live but the unfortunate fact of the matter is
that we cant go around executing people because they're stupid

so here's the scenario, some black fella calls me cracker or honkey, I
in return call him the N word, he gets froggy and gets his ass beat when
he tries to assault me, should it be a hate crime for either of us,
should the sentence be less severe since it started with an exchange of
words... who should get charged, me, him, both?

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OfflineChubba
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11340347 - 10/28/09 05:18 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Well put it this way Pris.

Someone randomly attacks you in the street for no reason.
Someone attacks you for being gay.

I believe both deserve the same penalty, the fact that he's attacking you for being gay isn't what I believe makes the crime particularly strong, it's just the attack with no provocation.

Quote:

should it be a hate crime for either of us,




I believe once the words were exchanged the hate crime goes out of the equation.

I have a feeling that's not how it works though and the fact that you yelled out nigger wouldn't work in your favour.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Chubba]
    #11340366 - 10/28/09 05:20 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Chubba said:

Someone randomly attacks you in the street for no reason.
Someone attacks you for being gay.

I believe both deserve the same penalty




I do as well, how exactly do we know that a person attacked someone for being gay anyway

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OfflineChubba
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11340379 - 10/28/09 05:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

how exactly do we know that a person attacked someone for being gay anyway




I don't know about that (sexual orientation), but there's definitely cases of race/religion where you can clearly tell that was the primary reason.

There was groups in Australia that go around specifically assaulting minority groups, nothing personal, complete strangers, oftens it's little weak international university students that get caught up in the crossfire.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Chubba]
    #11340382 - 10/28/09 05:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Chubba said:
I believe once the words were exchanged the hate crime goes out of the equation.

I have a feeling that's not how it works though and the fact that you yelled out nigger wouldn't work in your favour.





see... now there's the problem with the law, I was called something
derogatory but because he was black and I was not, I can be charged with
a hate crime because I used a racial slur used against black people

these sorts of laws promote racism and discrimination against certain ethnicities

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Chubba]
    #11340399 - 10/28/09 05:24 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Chubba said:
There was groups in Australia that go around specifically assaulting minority groups, nothing personal, complete strangers, oftens it's little weak international university students that get caught up in the crossfire.





and what about the minorities that assault the 'majority', are people
punished for hate crimes against whites as whites are against minorities

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OfflineChubba
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11340450 - 10/28/09 05:33 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

and what about the minorities that assault the 'majority', are people
punished for hate crimes against whites as whites are against minorities




Nop, in that case the white person always gets screwed.

It's minorities assaulting minorities though, white folks are rarely involved.

Whether it's lebanese vs vietnamese vs arabs vs sudanese etc. Australia has shitty immigration laws so we have large amounts of shitty foreign people that can't assimilate.

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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: TrancedShroom]
    #11340499 - 10/28/09 05:42 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Isn't most real crime done out of hate...... :narc:


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OfflineCannabischarlie
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11340509 - 10/28/09 05:42 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Chubba said:
There was groups in Australia that go around specifically assaulting minority groups, nothing personal, complete strangers, oftens it's little weak international university students that get caught up in the crossfire.





and what about the minorities that assault the 'majority', are people
punished for hate crimes against whites as whites are against minorities





on the hate crime website it explicitly mentions the percentages and statistics of hate crimes against "whites."

it also goes by perceived race. if someone thinks im something that i am not and thats the reason, then it goes by that.


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OfflineYacub
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Re: Well, No more lynching minorities... [Re: Cannabischarlie]
    #11341295 - 10/28/09 07:50 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Well, No more lynching minorities




They'll just have to settle for targeting the majority.

Quote:



:Under questioning, Attorney Gen. Holder was surprisingly forthright in admitting that the hate bill is not intended to protect everyone, or even the majority. He said only historically oppressed minorities were to benefit. This means Jews, blacks, homosexuals, women, etc. Holder made it clear that if a white Christian male, including a serviceman or police officer, was the victim of a violent hate crime by any minority he would have to find redress from traditional law. He could not avail himself of the triple penalties and rapid government/justice system response given a protected minority."

These catastrophic admissions were extracted by Senators Sessions (R-AL) and Coburn (R-OK). The webcast of the Hearings is here (on right) and the relevant passages are 58.30-61 minutes (Sessions) and 71.30-5 minutes (Coburn).

Holder made it plain that he is seeking legal privileges for certain groups based on what he told Senator Sessions was



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