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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Paradise is just an idea of our minds
    #11338989 - 10/28/09 04:28 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

...of our minds for making it true in our own possible reality. That's whats's imagination and fantasy is for.
Makeing up our ideas about our favourite realm which can become true.
If it's happy and enjoyable for all then it's called 'paradise',  'heaven' or even 'eden'.

So why transfer it into unreachable hyperspace ? It's just a possibility which can come true (again ?!) on earth for real human :smile:

Or are we all damned to not ever reach it here (even not for our children) ?


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Paradise is just an idea of our minds [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #11339042 - 10/28/09 04:33 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Perfection can never be reached through a creation
In order for a creation to exist, its fundamental nature must be perfection itself

Fundamental nature can not be 'reached'
It can be recognized, then out of that recognition, a paradise can manifest

First it must be recognized as the essential inner nature though
If its an external goal, then reaching it will just be people fighting each other to get there
Which in itself would not allow the paradise to manifest

:peace:


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: Paradise is just an idea of our minds [Re: Chronic7]
    #11339523 - 10/28/09 05:31 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Why reach perfection? What is wrong with being human and solving human problems like humans do?
What is fundamental nature? It's like you are talking about something outside of reality.
Why couldn't life as we know it be perfect or paradise?
Isn't it just human behaviour causing a lot of problems on top of the already present sorrows that come with being born?
What is wrong with external goals? People can work together on external goals and reach amazing results. Why this having to recognize something first? What?


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Paradise is just an idea of our minds [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11339689 - 10/28/09 05:54 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Its rude for me to not reply to you, but your using your mind over & over again
When what im talking about is beyond mind, so im gonna get bored talking to you soon
If you ask me one question & its honest then fine...

Your asking what? when? why? how? I dont have time for that sorry
Almost every question your asking is already answered in the post above it anyway

Im saying the only question to ask is - Who?
This question leads to perfect peaceful silence & a totally clear mind

Not all these rabid questions

:peace:


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: Paradise is just an idea of our minds [Re: Chronic7]
    #11339776 - 10/28/09 06:06 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

You are trying to suggest some mind/body achievement of realisation of zeroness.
It doesn't mean anything to me, neither bodily nor mentally. Not to me at least, but maybe to someone else like yourself... i don't know.
Besides, what's the point of remaining in perfect peaceful silence & a totally clear mind.
It maybe helpfull to relax, but that's not life for the majority of poeple who have to work, take care of family, study,etc... an active mind is crucial in these situations.
I'd like to hear you talk about how we can be positive and creative in our active daily life. All that siting still in equipoise maybe blissful and whatnot, but at the end of the day we need to live our life actively participating. Or not?


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Paradise is just an idea of our minds [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11339809 - 10/28/09 06:10 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Okay well you've narrowed it down at least...

You seem to be under the impression that this realization means nothing happens, just sit around all day detached & blissed out

When you are not attached to your expression, the expression still expresses, but more lovingly & expansively

When you are attached to the expression, the expression is suffocated, its selfish & contracted

Please dont get offended when i say this...
Beleiving the expression needs 'your' active participation is simply arrogance,
Its like saying without 'me' the universe could not function

:peace:


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: Paradise is just an idea of our minds [Re: Chronic7]
    #11340048 - 10/28/09 06:37 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Ok. No problem.
Yes and i am under the impression that this sitting meditatively is indeed being blissed out only.
Being attached to the expression, or not. 
But i am the expression of naturalness.
What is there to be attached or not attached to?
True, it's not up to me to keep the universe going, but without me the universe couldn't, well, express me. Could it?
It all sounds so strange like as if i don't need to do anything anymore.
No more choices, no more decisions, no more will or determination,... just let 'it' do what needs to be done and everything will be lovingly.

I mean, it is through our personal involvement with life that we grow and become loving.
What other something could take over that roll?

Sorry about me asking all these questions but i'm curious as to what is so special about what we are. Why all the focus on the zeroness, the 'i am' and such... why not work with everyday life? At least everyone will know where to start from. But 'zeroness' will confuse a lot of people.


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Paradise is just an idea of our minds [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11340120 - 10/28/09 06:46 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ahimsa said:
It all sounds so strange like as if i don't need to do anything anymore.
No more choices, no more decisions, no more will or determination,... just let 'it' do what needs to be done and everything will be lovingly.

I mean, it is through our personal involvement with life that we grow and become loving.
What other something could take over that roll?





This makes me so happy your asking this, to give me the opportunity to talk about it, so dont apologize for it :wink:

What could take over that roll?
That which is living the roll at the moment will take care of it
Its already running you, the universe is already in control of you
Its just when you recognize that, its like more power comes from within and takes control
It grows & grows & grows, taking you more & more into its full expression
To experience itself as the universe, through a person.
Rather than person inside a person. Its universe inside a person. :grin:

This is more loving than any personal expression could be
When the universal is looking through these eyes, seeing itself everywhere
This is Love!


Quote:

Ahimsa said:
why not work with everyday life? At least everyone will know where to start from. But 'zeroness' will confuse a lot of people.




Some will be fine working with everday life, but some beings will ache to come into full Awareness of their existence, for some the personal expression isn't enough, they want more than anything to come home into the universal expression

:peace:


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: Paradise is just an idea of our minds [Re: Chronic7]
    #11340182 - 10/28/09 06:56 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

This separation between personal and universal will always bother me i think.
But thanks for your reply.


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Paradise is just an idea of our minds [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11340261 - 10/28/09 07:07 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ahimsa said:
This separation between personal and universal will always bother me i think.
But thanks for your reply.




Only the personal will be bothered by it :wink:
See you are the universal

:peace:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Paradise is just an idea of our minds [Re: Chronic7]
    #11340352 - 10/28/09 07:19 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Believe can move mountains... the paradise lies ahead of us in reality on earth and in our responsible hands, not in abstracts like 'perfection' or catholic heaven in hyperspace. One doesn't have to be 'perfect', whatever that objectively means anyways, to make paradise happen on earth.
Maybe it's the forming of abstracts that prevent people reaching their goals, so those goals stay abstract for ever...
I say, that's not what our abstract thinking is made for, it's made for us making it true.

I just wonder, but thanks guys for your replies so far :smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Paradise is just an idea of our minds [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #11340439 - 10/28/09 07:30 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Ims saying the same thing as you, just in a different way

Although i may seem abstract in my words
Im not about being abstract at all
Im about imminence, Awareness, Life

Im saying that this paradise does not come as a creation humans will be responsible for, but as an expression of the universe expressing through humanity

'We' can not acheive paradise
Paradise will just happen when we let go of 'trying' so damn hard
When we stop clinging to life, only then does life express in its full expression

:psychsplit:

:peace:


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