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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Are we all 100% completely selfish?
#11338190 - 10/28/09 12:35 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 3 months, 1 day
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: Poid]
#11338215 - 10/28/09 12:38 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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No, but non-egoism seems like a contradiction, though the ego can idealize its destruction asa cog for a greater power.
If we are 100% selfish then why have people died for other people? Why have soldiers, on a whim, jumped on grenades?
-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: andrewss]
#11338219 - 10/28/09 12:39 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
andrewss said: If we are 100% selfish then why have people died for other people? Why have soldiers, on a whim, jumped on grenades?
So you believe in altruism?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: Poid]
#11338220 - 10/28/09 12:39 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I had shellfish for lunch! Yum.
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newshOne
searching
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 682
Loc: Hawaii
Last seen: 10 years, 19 days
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If we were 100% completely selfLESS then we would never care for ourselves.
-------------------- Dont forget to stop and smell your flowers
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
Loc: ohio
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: Poid]
#11338238 - 10/28/09 12:41 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
andrewss said: If we are 100% selfish then why have people died for other people? Why have soldiers, on a whim, jumped on grenades?
So you believe in altruism?
One can believe in altruism? Altrusim exists, is it THE ideal... dunno bout that....
-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: Poid]
#11338275 - 10/28/09 12:46 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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i am 99.9999328% selfish.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: Poid]
#11338281 - 10/28/09 12:48 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes
Living with the ego, everything is about self, this particular body
Living without the ego, its still all about Self, just the real Self that is in all the bodies...
So rather than living in service to the individual self Your living in service to your universal Self
It is still selfishness, just a truer selfishness Ego selfishness is ugly, universal selfishness is beautiful
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: Poid]
#11338326 - 10/28/09 12:54 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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if we were all 100% selfish, nobody would care for another you can't tell me nobody cares for anybody. sure it's been debated that ultimately it does serve our best interest whether we care for someone or not. but i don't think that has to do with the actual definition of selfishness.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: deranger]
#11338366 - 10/28/09 12:59 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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the only reason people care for others is cause they share their pain we can share it as deep down we are one Self
so even if your in service to 'others' you are still in service to your one Self so selfishness is unavoidable egoic selfisheness is destroyable...
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: Chronic7]
#11338406 - 10/28/09 01:06 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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is the dictionary using that definition of self in it's definition of selfishness?
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: deranger]
#11338504 - 10/28/09 01:20 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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probably not
my point is even altruism, selfless action, is still the Self in service to Self its totally different from egoic selfishness though, which is probably what the dictionaries reference is
the paradox is that if you focus on your Self 100% literally focus consciousness only on Self, your ego will be destroyed & all the altruism will come
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MycoUnderground
Enthusiast
Registered: 10/23/08
Posts: 467
Loc: Suburban CO
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: Chronic7]
#11338595 - 10/28/09 01:33 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Is there such things as a truly altruistic action?
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,117
Loc: Boston
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: Poid]
#11338614 - 10/28/09 01:37 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I certainly am.
Most people however are not.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: Chronic7]
#11338630 - 10/28/09 01:38 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said: probably not
my point is even altruism, selfless action, is still the Self in service to Self its totally different from egoic selfishness though, which is probably what the dictionaries reference is
the paradox is that if you focus on your Self 100% literally focus consciousness only on Self, your ego will be destroyed & all the altruism will come
i see your point, but if Poid is going to ask a question we best not be redefining terms if we don't want a confused thread.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,117
Loc: Boston
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: deranger]
#11338644 - 10/28/09 01:41 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deranger said: if we were all 100% selfish, nobody would care for another you can't tell me nobody cares for anybody. sure it's been debated that ultimately it does serve our best interest whether we care for someone or not. but i don't think that has to do with the actual definition of selfishness.
I call bullshit on this. If you were 100% selfish you would protect your values and never sacrifice them becuase they are what bring you happiness in life. This obviously means that you care deeply for those you value. Selfishness does not imply sacrifice of any kind, in fact it implies the opposite. Now an altruist can never care for another becuase he sacrifices his values at every opportunity. It is the standard of his morality to do so. If he cares it means there is a trace of selfishness. If you hold altruism as the standard then you admit that happiness is not your central purpose as you are a total slave to the whims of others.
The question that no altruists asks is this. If the good in life is to sacrifice ones values to others, then what of the morality of those who receive those values? Are they not evil for receiving those values? Should they not in turn sacrifice those values until everyone has nothing, as that is the standard of the good?
If you truly believe in altruism ask yourself these honest questions and envision what kind of world following that creed would create.
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Sprezzatura
Virtuoso
Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 2,637
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: Poid]
#11338692 - 10/28/09 01:47 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Good Question. I don't like to think we're 100% selfish... but it could be argued like this:
Statement: We are 100% selfish
Rebuttal: We are not 100% selfish because of charity, or 'good deeds'
Counter: Charity and Good deeds are done to make one feel better about themselves and thus, it is selfish.
-------------------- Spectaculorum procedere debet
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: RationalEgo]
#11338734 - 10/28/09 01:52 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
RationalEgo said: I call bullshit on this. If you were 100% selfish you would protect your values and never sacrifice them becuase they are what bring you happiness in life. This obviously means that you care deeply for those you value.
self·ish (sěl'fĭsh) adj.
1.
Concerned chiefly or only with oneself:
if this did mean concerned with only oneself and one's values, one could care for another, making the definition of selfishness contradictory imo.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,117
Loc: Boston
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: deranger]
#11338773 - 10/28/09 01:58 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deranger said:
Quote:
RationalEgo said: I call bullshit on this. If you were 100% selfish you would protect your values and never sacrifice them becuase they are what bring you happiness in life. This obviously means that you care deeply for those you value.
self�ish (sěl'fĭsh) adj.
1.
Concerned chiefly or only with oneself:
if this did mean concerned with only oneself and one's values, one could care for another, making the definition of selfishness contradictory imo.
Chiefly concerned with oneself implies that ones central purpose is ones own happiness, which of course includes all of ones values. Caring for others whom one values increases ones happiness. There is no contradiction in this.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Are we all 100% completely selfish? [Re: RationalEgo]
#11338801 - 10/28/09 02:00 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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when does the only come into play? when selfishness has reached 100%?
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