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Offlinemachineelf368
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The Politics of Canada
    #1133022 - 12/11/02 05:19 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Right now I live in the US, but I've been seriously considering moving to Canada.  However, most of what I know about the day-to-day living is taken from TV and movies, which I don't put much stock into.  So does everyone there just eat bacon strangely and act like the Kids in the Hall?

Seriously though, I'd really appreciate it if you Canucks could give me a little crash-course in Canada.  I can read all about Canada's foreign policies and standard of living and whatnot online, but that doesn't tell me what it's really like to live there.  I'm particularly interested in how the national healthcare affects the medical and psychological fields (as that's what I'll be working in), the prison system, and Canada's treatment of their Native Americans.  How pervasive is the bilingual-ness? How impaired would I be not knowing the tiniest bit of French? I read at  DumbLaws that in Toronto "You can't drag a dead horse down Yonge Street on a Sunday." Is this enforced? 'Cause if it is the whole idea's off.  There's just no way I could stand for that level of oppression. :smile: I kid.  Anyway, pretty much all I know of daily Canadian life comes from Kids in the Hall and Bowling for Columbine.  What do you Canadian's think of Michael Moore's portrayal of your fine country?

I'd rather not make this a post about which country is better because that's for me personally to decide, it's not an objective question.   


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(the above was deciphered from phi (~1.62) using an advanced alphanumeric conversion algorhythm and should not be perceived as meaningful.)


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OfflineZahid
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: machineelf368]
    #1133037 - 12/11/02 05:25 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I can't think of any word or sentence to describe my homeland.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: machineelf368]
    #1133063 - 12/11/02 05:35 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Actually, we eat bacon the same here. What you call "canadian bacon", we call "ham". Real Canadian bacon is actually peameal bacon, which you can't get in most of the US.

I'll bet if you tried to drag a dead horse down Yonge street at any time, the police would stop you for blocking traffic.

Daily Canadian life isn't much different from daily american life. We get up, go to work, then come home.

Oh, the pot deal is a bit different here. I've heard that in the US you can either get good or bad weed, and you have to pay more for the good stuff. Up here the vast majority is good, and it's much cheaper. While an american might pay $50 american for an eigth of decent pot, we pay $30 canadian for the same amount of equal quality bud.

Bilingualism isn't really an issue. A lot of people speak french in Quebec, in the rest of Canada, virtually nobody speaks french. You'll probably find just as many french speakers in New York as you will in Toronto.

I haven't seen Bowling for Columbine yet, so I don't know exactly what he has to say about us.



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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinepattern
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Registered: 07/19/02
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: machineelf368]
    #1133608 - 12/11/02 09:10 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

to live in Canada, all you gotta be is polite!

that is challenging for many Americans...

:grin:


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man = monkey + mushroom


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: machineelf368]
    #1133682 - 12/11/02 10:10 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Spend some time here. Canada is a big country and has differences within it as well.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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OfflineLlamanose
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: pattern]
    #1133691 - 12/11/02 10:29 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

That's it... I'm moving.  I'm one of the few polite Americans, and when I go to Canada I'm bringing the shittiest weed I can get so they know how good they have it.  :grin:  Then I'll buy a bag of good stuff and smoke everyone out.  The End.  :laugh: 


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Alice came to a fork in the road.  "Which road do I take?" she asked.
"Where do you want to go?" responded the Cheshire cat.
"I don't know," Alice answered.
"Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."
~Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: Llamanose]
    #1133778 - 12/11/02 11:20 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I want to move too. I just saw Bowling for Columbine, and even the ghettos in Canada aren't that bad. It's harder to become a millionaire in Canada, but it's also harder to starve.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: machineelf368]
    #1134232 - 12/12/02 06:04 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'm particularly interested in how the national healthcare affects the medical and psychological fields...

Disastrously.

Basically, if you are a physician (or psychiatrist) you are a government employee, but with lower pay and more responsibility than other government employees of similar education. If you are a patient, you end up waiting months for treatment of life-threatening diseases, or even for tests to determine if you may have a life-threatening disease. If you are a taxpayer, you have your paycheck raped to pay for what little medical services are still available.

How pervasive is the bilingual-ness?

Unless you are fluently bilingual in both French and English, forget about trying to get a job with the government. But apart from that, once you are west of Toronto, it is not necessary to know much French.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: Phred]
    #1134476 - 12/12/02 07:25 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Not true about being Bi-lingual and getting a government job, although it's nice to have it's not mandatory. I have worked for the government on the Provincial and National level and I can't speak any French whatsoever...

It's like Pinky says about the location though...if you stick to Western Canada you won't need French at all...plus right now the Jobs are in Western Canada as well...


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: Phred]
    #1134835 - 12/12/02 09:47 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

You don't have to be bilinguil to work for the government. That's just not the case. I'd go as far to say that many government workers here can't speak english either.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Offlinechemkid
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: pattern]
    #1135467 - 12/12/02 01:43 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

That is so typical a response from a Canadian. They live the life of a free country with no worries of being invaded because big brother USA will defend their ungrateful asses.

Sure, America has many differences that may even be offensive to Canadians...fine, you don't have to live here....but instead of bad mouthing the hand that's feeding your economy, military, science........just be grateful and stay in your little corner of the globe where you are happy.

I am very proud to be American and find many faults with our country. I can admit that. But, I can weigh the amount of good against the bad (the good wins everytime). I absolutely love Canada. I have many friends from there and visit it often. This growing contempt of America by worthless Canadians is starting to change my views.


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: chemkid]
    #1135488 - 12/12/02 01:50 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

>>They live the life of a free country with no worries of being invaded because big brother USA will defend their ungrateful asses.


Defend them from who? Canada doesn't have any enemies. The only "enimies" Canada has to worry about are people who are pissed off at America.


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Offlinechemkid
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1135513 - 12/12/02 02:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Why do you think that is??????

It is easy to play the apathetic role in the world when you know someone else will take the heat.

It is sort of like the coach taking the heat for a losing team. Everyone knows that the players played like shit but the coach gets fired.

If you can hide behind the skirt of America and let her take the heat for the policies that you believe in too but are too afraid to voice and stand behind, then why not.......that is the easy way out.......the bitch, punk way out!!!

For once, Canada needs to stand by their ally and say "hey, we are with America, we support them"

There has to be some Canadians out there that actually are glad to be associated with America....let's here from you guys!!!


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: chemkid]
    #1135523 - 12/12/02 02:07 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

LOL that's great. We are being punks, we really need to start speaking up. TO America that is though.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: chemkid]
    #1135624 - 12/12/02 02:48 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

We're so full of shit here in America though.

China is one of the greatest threats to the world, and yet we still grant them Most favored nation trade status.

We were willing to send our own boys over to die, and killed thousands ourselves to stop the spread of communism, yet today we're not willing to pay an extra buck or two for a motion sensing singing snowman that comes from America, or Canada, or New Zealand, or any other free country rather than from murderous despotic China.

When we celebrate the 4th of July, we do it with Chineese fireworks. How fucked up is that?

I refuse to buy Chineese fireworks to celebrate freedom, and liberty, because I ,unlike most Americans, see the IRONY and HYPOCRACY in doing so.

I prefer to toss a can of American made hairspray into a flaming trash can, or spit some Canadian whiskey into a bonfire.  :grin:


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Offlinemachineelf368
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: Phred]
    #1135911 - 12/12/02 04:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

In reply to:

Basically, if you are a physician (or psychiatrist) you are a government employee, but with lower pay and more responsibility than other government employees of similar education. If you are a patient, you end up waiting months for treatment of life-threatening diseases, or even for tests to determine if you may have a life-threatening disease. If you are a taxpayer, you have your paycheck raped to pay for what little medical services are still available.



Could you (or others) elaborate on this? What kinds of lower pay and more responsibility would a psychologist have to deal with? Do any of you have personal or impersonal experience with Canadian mental hospitals? Do they still do electroshock in Canada? One of the most disturbing things I've ever seen was when our Advanced and Scientific mental hospital here gave electroshock to this poor old woman. If was sickening.

Anyway, how much of one's paycheck goes into Medicare? If I move up it'll be to Ontario province, and I understand you don't have to pay premiums in Ontario. And on a more personal note, how easy is it to buy spore syringes and related cultivation material in Canada? Is it the same law as in the US where spores are legal to sell and possess but mycelium is illegal?
-m


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(the above was deciphered from phi (~1.62) using an advanced alphanumeric conversion algorhythm and should not be perceived as meaningful.)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: machineelf368]
    #1136211 - 12/12/02 06:12 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

What kinds of lower pay and more responsibility would a psychologist have to deal with?

I dunno. A psychologist is not the same thing as a psychiatrist -- a psychologist does not require a medical degree in order to practice.

I wasn't comparing rates of pay and levels of responsibility between US doctors and Canadian doctors (although Canadian doctors do make far less than US doctors, even before the confiscatory level of Canadian taxation is factored into the equation), I was comparing it with other government employees.

Anyway, how much of one's paycheck goes into Medicare?

Per capita "health costs" funded through taxes and payroll deductions in Canada have been figured by some to be $2400 annually. That figure is arrived at by dividing $72 billion by the 30 million people living in Canada. Of course not all of those 30 million people pay taxes or have payroll deductions (kids, welfare cases, etc.) so the amount per taxpayer is substantially higher. Not only that, but that figure of $72 billion does not include the costs of the government bureaucrats who collect the taxes, administer the various regulatory government departments, etc. Bottom line, no one knows (literally no one) the complete annual cost to the Canadian taxpayer.

Just to make matters even more complicated, that figure does not include what Canadians spend on stuff that is not covered by medicare -- dental work, eyeglasses, OTC meds, prescription meds, various forms of holistic or naturopathic treatments, psychotherapy, and a whole raft of other health costs.

Some estimates of the total amount spent on health care in Canada say the figure is roughly 100 billion annually. If there are 20 million people working, that comes to $5,000 per person per year. There may be more than 20 million working, though.

If I move up it'll be to Ontario province, and I understand you don't have to pay premiums in Ontario.

I left Ontario fifteen years ago to live here in the Dominican Republic. I don't know if the rules have changed since 1987, but I sure as shit had OHIP (the Ontario medicare plan) deductions taken from every paycheck. Perhaps someone from Ontario could tell you if that is still the case.

And on a more personal note, how easy is it to buy spore syringes and related cultivation material in Canada? Is it the same law as in the US where spores are legal to sell and possess but mycelium is illegal?

No essential difference between the two, legally or supply-wise.

pinky


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: Phred]
    #1136462 - 12/12/02 07:19 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Whatever pinky.

Are you really from the dominican republic? You speak about this like you work for the CD Howe Institute.

You right wingers and your "taxpayer only" lie/illusion. Everyone knows the government can make money by owning businesses. In Canada, there are many profitable crown corporations, which provide money for the public good of the nation rather than a few private interests.

Besides that, the fact remains that Canada spends far less on health care than does USA, and covers it's people universally, while USA, with it's more expensive private insurance, leaves 15% of the population with no coverage, and an additional 20-25% with sketchy coverage.

All private insurance does is complicate access to a vital need. Why do you need a bunch of do-nothing shareholders profiting off of a payment system for a vital need? All that can do is inflate costs.

The market is in no way suited to deliver medical insurance. It bases priority by price, not need.

Everybody knows that.





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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


Edited by carbonhoots (12/12/02 07:44 PM)


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: chemkid]
    #1136492 - 12/12/02 07:29 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

In reply to:

That is so typical a response from a Canadian. They live the life of a free country with no worries of being invaded because big brother USA will defend their ungrateful asses.




And that seems like a typical response from an American.

Certain members of the American ruling class(like the Bush's) are prepared to destabilize the world in a nearly Bilblical way in order to gain access to oil. Not even for need, but for profit. And then lying and brainwashing people like you through their 'media'.

What was Vietnam about? There was another one Canada opposed. I think Bob Dylan held the same opinion as Canada there.

Face it, America is a military empire. Going out and taking. That's why lots of groups hate the states. The states don't play fair. The states says "it's everyone for himself" like an elephant dancing amongst the chickens.

The American nation is set to burn up nearly half of all the world's oil by the time it runs out. Does that seem fair? One nation...half the world oil...hundreds of others...the other half. Something along those lines. Take take take.

America doesn't even support democracy. They were complacent with the coup on Slavador Allende (the other september 11), America supported the brutal dictatorship of Batista (Cuba. Way worse guy than Castro)

America only sopports slavery regimes so it's ruling class can profit more, and more and more.







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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


Edited by carbonhoots (12/12/02 07:40 PM)


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: The Politics of Canada [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1136546 - 12/12/02 07:44 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

In reply to:

Everyone knows the government can make money by owning businesses. In Canada, there are many profitable crown corporations, which provide money for the public good of the nation rather than a few private interests.



If the government is so good at making money, why have taxation? Why when governments get into a certain enterprise do they almost invariably make it illegal to compete with their services? Who defines 'public good?'

In reply to:

Besides that, the fact remains that Canada spends far less on health care than does USA, and covers it's people universally, while USA, with it's more expensive private insurance...



Can you provide some figures, which include all the costs such as taxes from various source, fees and costs of compliance with regulations. Can you also provide some valuation on the effects of scarcity of products and services created by government controls? The beautiful thing about government programs is that the costs are hidden in so many ways as to be virtually invisible to those who haven't the knowledge of where to look.

In reply to:

leaves 15% of the population with no coverage, and an additional 20-25% with sketchy coverage.



How many of these choose not to have coverage (as I did when I didn't have a family)? What is your definition of 'sketchy coverage'?

In reply to:

All private insurance does is complicate access to a vital need. Why do you need a bunch of do-nothing shareholders profiting of a payment system for a vital need? All that can do is inflate costs.



I am self employed and provide for insurance for myself and my family, I have no problems with it. I have choices among several different providers, each providing several different plans. Why should I be forced via taxation to pay for those who will not take care of themselves?

In reply to:

The market is in no way suited to deliver medical insurance. It bases priority by price, not need.



The market delivers it more efficiently than governments. Why do people come from countries with socialized medicine to the U.S. for treatments which they can either not receive or have to be put on a waiting list for? My father-in-law, who lives in the Netherlands had to wait SIX MONTHS for brain surgery because of government interference in their health system. In the U.S., he would have been scheduled for surgery within a week.

In reply to:

Everybody knows that.



Couching an opinion in such a manner does not make it so.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (12/12/02 07:54 PM)


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