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Offlinesgaltair
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Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious
    #11329432 - 10/27/09 03:48 AM (8 years, 23 days ago)

Alright so I'm sure we all know that incubating jars at 80+ degrees is a bad idea. The higher temperature is more beneficial to contaminants, although it does increase the speed of myc colonization.

Also, if I understand correctly, once the myc is 100% colonized it is very unlikely for any contams to be able to take over.

SO, by that logic, it could be beneficial to sclerotia forming strains if you keep them at room temp until 100% colonization and then increase the temperature to 80+ for faster sclerotia production.

So.... how are off am I? Does any of that make sense? And would the increase in speed be notable or just a day or two? So many questions :smile:

I just thought this would be something to consider, I highly doubt I'm the first to come up with it.

Thanks everyone


--------------------
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Invisibletruskool
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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: sgaltair]
    #11329451 - 10/27/09 03:55 AM (8 years, 23 days ago)

Ive thought about this also since i got some atl going right now especially


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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: truskool]
    #11329456 - 10/27/09 03:57 AM (8 years, 23 days ago)

set it and forget it, let nature make the stones, at room temp.:stoned:

you can still get bacterial bloom.:eek:


:getstoned:


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Offlinesgaltair
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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: 13shrooms]
    #11330570 - 10/27/09 12:03 PM (8 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

13shrooms said:
set it and forget it, let nature make the stones, at room temp.:stoned:

you can still get bacterial bloom.:eek:


:getstoned:




Will do :smile: I love watching the mycelium spread and develop, and the stones grow.


--------------------
"Zydrate comes in a little glass vial..." Repo! The Genetic Opera

"Measure what is measurable and make measurable what is not so."
Galileo Galilei

"When the veil falls
All will be made manifest
And the warriors of the ethereal
Will be our only defense"

~~altair~~


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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: sgaltair]
    #11330594 - 10/27/09 12:08 PM (8 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

sgaltair said:
it could be beneficial to sclerotia forming strains if you keep them at room temp until 100% colonization and then increase the temperature to 80+ for faster sclerotia production.




Completely worth trying. Use an isolate and keep records.  Then post pics! :thumbup:
Does anybody know when in their life cycle they make stones in the wild? Relative to the seasons?


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Offlinesgaltair
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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: Doc_T]
    #11330887 - 10/27/09 01:06 PM (8 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

sgaltair said:
it could be beneficial to sclerotia forming strains if you keep them at room temp until 100% colonization and then increase the temperature to 80+ for faster sclerotia production.




Completely worth trying. Use an isolate and keep records.  Then post pics! :thumbup:
Does anybody know when in their life cycle they make stones in the wild? Relative to the seasons?




Unfortunately I don't have the means to do this atm. I'm just starting out so I don't even have an isolate, just 11 MS jars of atl7. So maybe somewhere down the line I'll test this idea of mine.


--------------------
"Zydrate comes in a little glass vial..." Repo! The Genetic Opera

"Measure what is measurable and make measurable what is not so."
Galileo Galilei

"When the veil falls
All will be made manifest
And the warriors of the ethereal
Will be our only defense"

~~altair~~


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OfflineLitCloset
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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: sgaltair]
    #11331050 - 10/27/09 01:35 PM (8 years, 23 days ago)

i remember workman mentioning once in a thread i cant find... that he did a test where he had the temp up higher than usual at first then dropped it after colonization. that was to get stones started quickly if i remember correctley.

i have not seen much discussion on how these strains act in nature. i would love to find somethign that details it.

ive been wondering latley if 100% colonization the placing in a tray with a casing may produce more stones? a lot of people are very happy with what they get out of thier casings from these strains/species. anyone know of a difference in yield in stones when grown in jar vs casing?


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OfflineLitCloset
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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: LitCloset]
    #11331054 - 10/27/09 01:37 PM (8 years, 23 days ago)

wiki says fruiting takes place in mexico between may and october... doesnt help much


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Offlinesgaltair
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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: LitCloset]
    #11331077 - 10/27/09 01:41 PM (8 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

LitCloset said:
wiki says fruiting takes place in mexico between may and october... doesnt help much




Especially since we're not interested in fruiting season in the context of this discussion.


--------------------
"Zydrate comes in a little glass vial..." Repo! The Genetic Opera

"Measure what is measurable and make measurable what is not so."
Galileo Galilei

"When the veil falls
All will be made manifest
And the warriors of the ethereal
Will be our only defense"

~~altair~~


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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: LitCloset]
    #11331142 - 10/27/09 01:52 PM (8 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

LitCloset said:
wiki says fruiting takes place in mexico between may and october... doesnt help much




D'oh! :facepalm: I always think about galindoi and Georgia when I'm talking stones...
Some parts of Mexico have seasons with temperature changes, other parts really just have wet/dry seasons.


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InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: LitCloset]
    #11331144 - 10/27/09 01:52 PM (8 years, 23 days ago)

Adding a little vermiculite and coffee grounds to your substrate will promote stone production, though it won't necessarily speed it up.

I've heard adding sawdust helps but I've never tried it myself.


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OfflineLitCloset
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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: sgaltair]
    #11331208 - 10/27/09 02:05 PM (8 years, 23 days ago)

ehh.i dislike blunt and mildly hostil responces given to people trying to be helpful. not cool :frown:

i looked into stamets and it said june through september in mexico and guatamala, strage this is stamets is what wiki references. ive read many times that sclerotia are considerd fruits, if thats right or not im not sure. either way there may be a connection between fruit formation periods in specific regions/climate/TEMPS and somethign considered a fruit. though its alittle of a stretch to assume stamets also ment stones

obviously the stones are created before the fruits. and a "reason" for stones is to create something that acts like a bacterial endospore.

since we have noticed them growing on the glass surface many times, some of us have mentioned that this may be a trigger for production. when the organisms "feels" it has no where elese  to grow that would be a trigger to make a stone for any changes in the future.

maybe other triggers similar to what bacillus endospores form in would help stone fromation. so higher temps, no room for growing, cold temps, lack of nutrients, copmetitors etc may be triggers.

i wonder if weakening / killing (with out denaturing all the protiens) or an extracellular fluid from a safe contam added to a atl or mecixana may trigger more stone formation. yeast, specific penicillium (obvious other benifits) and similar may be worthwile organisms to try this with.

has anyone ever noticed stone formation on agar at the interface of the myc and a contam? ive been seing lots of stones form where i cut out squares of agar. even in the center of the plate, stones always seem to form around the edge of where the square was taken out.


just adding what i can, trying to be helpful and pleasent


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Offlinesgaltair
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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: LitCloset]
    #11331326 - 10/27/09 02:25 PM (8 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

LitCloset said:
ehh.i dislike blunt and mildly hostil responces given to people trying to be helpful. not cool :frown:
...
just adding what i can, trying to be helpful and pleasent




My apologies, I didn't mean to sound hostile. In hindsight I see that it appeared that way. I was just attempting to clarify the direction of the discussion. You know far more about this than I do, so I respect your input and knowledge.

Once I get more supplies and time I will certainly pursue this idea. I'd be very interested in the findings if anyone else decides to try it out. I know it may be a long shot but from what I've read some of the best innovations in this field came from similar hypotheses.


--------------------
"Zydrate comes in a little glass vial..." Repo! The Genetic Opera

"Measure what is measurable and make measurable what is not so."
Galileo Galilei

"When the veil falls
All will be made manifest
And the warriors of the ethereal
Will be our only defense"

~~altair~~


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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: sgaltair]
    #11331501 - 10/27/09 02:54 PM (8 years, 23 days ago)

thanks for the apologie. it can really be hard to determine the intention and true meaning of writen word online.

5 mushies for being cool about it.

make sure to let us know if you do any experimenting. im surfing around in google scholar right now trying to find info on what triggers sclerotia formation. so far i have found a lot of info on how to stop formation and cause them to shrink... now thats not helpful!


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OfflineLitCloset
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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: LitCloset]
    #11331551 - 10/27/09 03:02 PM (8 years, 23 days ago)

ok after a quick look in google scholar i found this small collection of papers. the focus is on oxidative stree and sclerotia formation. i have not read through the  whole thing yet, though i will. several experiments are mentioned using different checmicals.

something we should all look intopapers


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: LitCloset]
    #11332688 - 10/27/09 06:24 PM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Room temp is fine... a little cooler... a little warmer... also fine.

Fire and forget.

Temp HARDLY matters with stones.


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Offlinesgaltair
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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: Rose]
    #11333700 - 10/27/09 08:35 PM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Room temp is fine... a little cooler... a little warmer... also fine.

Fire and forget.

Temp HARDLY matters with stones.




I am by no mean questioning your knowledge, as you are nothing short of a pioneer of this subject, but could you explain why? Stones are essentially super dense mycelium correct? And mycelium do show increased colonization speed at higher temperatures. Would it not be a logical conclusion that stones would also be produced faster at higher temperatures? And since the jar is already colonized there would be a near zero risk of contaminants.

Does this just not make any sense? Is it not worthy of some experimentation?


--------------------
"Zydrate comes in a little glass vial..." Repo! The Genetic Opera

"Measure what is measurable and make measurable what is not so."
Galileo Galilei

"When the veil falls
All will be made manifest
And the warriors of the ethereal
Will be our only defense"

~~altair~~


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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: sgaltair]
    #11333766 - 10/27/09 08:42 PM (8 years, 22 days ago)

Heat will cause premature dryness in your jars.

This is not a problem with cubes because you don't keep em in the jar for nearly as long.

Also, the most common n00b mistake is overheating their healthy myc... fucking up their incubator... etc. Extra heat is NOT NEEDED... and it is RARELY worth the added risk and cost.

Room temp.


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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: Rose]
    #11333784 - 10/27/09 08:45 PM (8 years, 22 days ago)

if anything cooler temps would produce a better quality stone, like fruiting cubes in cooler temps you get meatier, more dense fruits and potency is better.

:super:


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Re: Sclerotia temperature... I'm curious [Re: 13shrooms]
    #11333832 - 10/27/09 08:51 PM (8 years, 22 days ago)

^^^ completely true for cubes, and plausible for stones. But until somebody tries it, we don't know. Somebody needs to try it.


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