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OfflineAhimsa
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Thinking
    #11316636 - 10/25/09 05:38 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Some people think that not thinking is the highest thought.
Some people think that not to have thoughts is real freedom.
Some people think that they think, but they don't, they repeat what others say, or they base their thoughts entirely upon the thinking of others, creating the impression to ohters and themselves that they think.
Some people think always the same, imo that is not thinking.
I think that thoughts about reality are the best thinking can do! After all, it is the function of our brain to think, like our muscles do work, our brain 'thinks'. I also think that thinking is a process of applied will. I can use my willpower to direct the activity of my brain an produce thoughts about, what imo is reality.

:whatdoyouthink:


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: Thinking [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11316651 - 10/25/09 05:47 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I still don't understand what people mean when they talk about 'not thinking'... as far as I am aware, this just means being conscious of physical sensations.. if you really were aware of nothing, you would not remember the experience.

but maybe I am just not enlightened enough

I dunno, I never find meditation tapes useful... I just listen to the voices and think about what is in teh narrator's head. thoughts dont appear or dissapear in my head other than imagining what the narrator is thinking about.. I am always at peace on the inside by default.. but it does not get anywhere... I do not feel at peace when I realise there are things I need to do with my day other than being at peace sitting and doing nothing.. I really think it is either a) overrated or b) I enjoy a natural meditative state that most people are not priveleged to and thus do not get such a kick out of experiencing mental stillness


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Thinking [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11316677 - 10/25/09 06:09 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
I still don't understand what people mean when they talk about 'not thinking'... as far as I am aware, this just means being conscious of physical sensations.. if you really were aware of nothing, you would not remember the experience.





There's quite a lot of variance in the meaning of "thinking" and "thought".. so I'd suppose you'd need to understand the nuanced way in which the person was meaning it in order to understand what they mean by 'not thinking'.. 

What I wonder is why people talk about 'not thinking'.. What would be the point in telling everyone?

When I am not jumping, I don't tell other people that I'm not jumping..
When I am not running, I don't tell other people that I'm not running..
When I am not talking, I don't tell other people that I'm not talking.. wait a minute! :wink::lol:



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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: Thinking [Re: Mufungo]
    #11316684 - 10/25/09 06:14 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:

There's quite a lot of variance in the meaning of "thinking" and "thought"..




'Thinking' as in the moment of insight based upon which 'thoughts' are created.


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Thinking [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11316710 - 10/25/09 06:25 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

That definition seems quite tautological.

Here's what the dictionary has to say...


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: Thinking [Re: Mufungo]
    #11316855 - 10/25/09 07:56 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I mean to say that 'thinking' itself is as fast as light, like inspiration, but that the formulation or conceptualisation of this 'thinking' creates 'thought', the actual ideas set in words.


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Thinking [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11316983 - 10/25/09 09:19 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Two questions...

What is formulated and conceptualised during thinking to form thought?
(Was unsure from what you said whether you meant that ideas (and/or something else) were being formulated and conceptualised to form thought.)

If "thoughts" are ideas set in words. Then what are "ideas"?


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: Thinking [Re: Mufungo]
    #11317275 - 10/25/09 11:12 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Good questions. I believe that we 'think' in images that only make sense to ourself. Then after the actual insight, i try to translate this into 'thought' that can be understood by everyone using the formal system of language.

To me the thinking are the visionary manifestations in my mind created by my brain. In this way new concepts arrive to my mind which i put into 'thought'. Also, there is an action of manipulating 'thoughts' into 'thinking'. Example: Reading a book i take in ideas, but then these 'thoughts' become actual 'thinking' when they start to interact with previous knowledge and form these images.

Realizing something is a momentary happening whereby an incomplete picture finally goes full circle so to speak.

These are my impressions. Do they answer your questions?


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Thinking [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11317347 - 10/25/09 11:29 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Cheers for that.

Quote:

Ahimsa said:
I believe that we 'think' in images that only make sense to ourself. Then after the actual insight, i try to translate this into 'thought' that can be understood by everyone using the formal system of language.





Is thinking solely the domain of visual system, what about other sensory modalities? Such as somatosensory, auditory, olfactory, and gustatory.


Are you familiar with models of working memory? I.e. central executive, phonological loop, visio-spatial sketch-pad. If so, is what you're describing similar to it or a different thing entirely?


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: Thinking [Re: Mufungo]
    #11317795 - 10/25/09 01:15 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:

Is thinking solely the domain of visual system, what about other sensory modalities? Such as somatosensory, auditory, olfactory, and gustatory.


Are you familiar with models of working memory? I.e. central executive, phonological loop, visio-spatial sketch-pad. If so, is what you're describing similar to it or a different thing entirely?




No. But you can bet on it i'm gonna do some research into that right away.... thanks for pointing all that out!  :salute:


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: Thinking [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11317939 - 10/25/09 01:45 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

When I've worked with mentally handicapped kids and teenagers, I've sometimes been struck by an insight (among many other insights related to this line of work I can get into another time): that most of the people working with the kids are in fact mentally handicapped as well. This leads to what some might be afraid to think, frightening consequences that might seem to come too close to Galton's ideas. But it is an interesting, if not sometimes pedagogical insight -- seeing how these handicapped kids lack what is called "perspective" or "Weltbegriff" (a grasp of the world) and see then that there is an entire spectrum of clarity of perspective and that the majority of adults have underdeveloped cognitive skills and thus malformed ability to acquire perspective or a grasp-of-the-world.


Edited by Lakefingers (10/25/09 01:55 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Thinking [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11318480 - 10/25/09 03:24 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I think that thoughts about reality are the best thinking can do! After all, it is the function of our brain to think, like our muscles do work, our brain 'thinks'. I also think that thinking is a process of applied will. I can use my willpower to direct the activity of my brain an produce thoughts about, what imo is reality.


:thumbup: IMO to be a successful thinker one must think about how their cultural conditioning affects their personal thinking/beliefs. This is a most difficult process.

"What the thinker thinks, the prover proves"


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (10/25/09 03:25 PM)


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: Thinking [Re: Icelander]
    #11319251 - 10/25/09 05:32 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Remember to use socio-economic balsam with your cultural conditioner.


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Invisibleshowme
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Re: Thinking [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11326823 - 10/26/09 08:53 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

la lala


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Imagination is the organ of meaning.


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OfflineBeatles
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Re: Thinking [Re: showme]
    #11327306 - 10/26/09 10:13 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Via meditation, we are able to clear our minds from a daily routine of thinking and allow our minds to rest in rigpa, the innermost nature of the mind. It's almost like rejuvenating our minds, but a bit different. More of just being aware, and being aware of being aware. It is through this state of awareness that we cleanse ourselves, become aware and shift our attention inward. Not allowing the sun be eclipsed by the moon.

You catch my drift.


--------------------
“Universal Truth is Not Measured in Mass Appeal.....”


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Thinking [Re: Beatles]
    #11331146 - 10/27/09 01:53 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

No

I meditated for years, I got a little more relaxed but I never quit thinking. It slowed somewhat however.

So many proponents of meditation say you stop thinking. I think that's pure bullshit. And if it's true only one out of a million can achieve this no mind state.

I'll stick to shrooms.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSpiral11235
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Re: Thinking [Re: Icelander]
    #11331169 - 10/27/09 01:56 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I think that thoughts about reality are the best thinking can do! After all, it is the function of our brain to think, like our muscles do work, our brain 'thinks'. I also think that thinking is a process of applied will. I can use my willpower to direct the activity of my brain an produce thoughts about, what imo is reality.


:thumbup: IMO to be a successful thinker one must think about how their cultural conditioning affects their personal thinking/beliefs. This is a most difficult process.

"What the thinker thinks, the prover proves"




Again, :thumbup:;)


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: Thinking [Re: Spiral11235]
    #11331516 - 10/27/09 02:56 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Can we be free thinkers if we were brought up religious?
Is logic dependent upon culture and belief, or does it stand outside of those influences?
How about the empirically proven method of scientific reasoning?
Can thinking 'überhaupt' (at all) be free?
What about the final analysis? Is this where thinking is set free once and for all?
And i'm making a distinction between 'free thinking' and thinking being 'freed'.
Meaning, free thought allowed so to speak, and clear thought, free from delusions.
Whatever that may be... :ohwell:

These are just a few questions that pop into my mind after reading your response...  thanks.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Thinking [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11331579 - 10/27/09 03:07 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ahimsa said:
Can we be free thinkers if we were brought up religious?




not just religion
the education system...
the english language...
parents, peers...
your job at mcdonalds...
all of these work towards suppressing our freedom imo.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Thinking [Re: Icelander]
    #11331590 - 10/27/09 03:08 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
No

I meditated for years, I got a little more relaxed but I never quit thinking. It slowed somewhat however.

So many proponents of meditation say you stop thinking. I think that's pure bullshit.




agree :thumbup:


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