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InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
I'm Me...somehow
    #11316484 - 10/25/09 04:55 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I think my sense of being a self-contained individual is ultimately an illusion.  It is an important distinction for "me" during this life, so that "I" can survive...and that seems to be it's purpose.

Buuut...how is this illusion possible? How I am myself, as opposed to being you reading this right now, or any other person or creature that has a sense of self?
How am I trapped in this self illusion, when there isn't even truly a "me" to be trapped?

Being me is a strange paradox...


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OfflineBooby
Agent Mulder
 User Gallery
Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 3,781
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: I'm Me...somehow [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #11316492 - 10/25/09 04:59 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

A collective does seem to have a superior barganing ability.


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OfflineNoteworthy
Sophyphile
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
Re: I'm Me...somehow [Re: Booby]
    #11316591 - 10/25/09 05:23 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

I only have access to the sense data formed by my brain, not yours. I also can only act in this universe through 'my' body. If there is anything connecting my consciousness with yours, it is only possible to be aware of this through abstraction/reasoning.


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OfflineAhimsa
Male

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,790
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: I'm Me...somehow [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #11316661 - 10/25/09 05:53 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Senses provide info to my brain. The conceptualisation of the receiver of this info creates the 'me'. This mind appears because of the functioning of the brain, within it arises the 'me' thought, being the receiver of the info from the senses. And so, 'I' am this process of sensory info being addressed to a 'me'. Because the sensory input is constant, the 'me' seems to be permanent and to be an entity in itself.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: I'm Me...somehow [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11316746 - 10/25/09 06:47 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah...and yet I am I, and you are you. 

It seems more intuitive to me that if these illusory self-hoods (me and you) are just a function of some lumps of gray matter, which are a function of the universe, they would all be perceived by one awareness, or no awareness at all.  Though I understand, our brains aren't connected to each other in quite the same way as a bunch of neurons are connected to each other.

I guess the universe doesn't care what seems intuitive to me.  It's just strange that my "self" is so obviously of a temporary nature, and yet I am most definitely Oweyervishice, and you are Ahimsa.

I don't know if there is really anywhere to go with this besides in circles, but I just have to vent about it once in a while.  :crazy2:
self/awareness clashes with unity/no-self


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InvisibleChronic7
 User Gallery
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,677
Re: I'm Me...somehow [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #11316752 - 10/25/09 06:56 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
How am I trapped in this self illusion, when there isn't even truly a "me" to be trapped?





Your question contains the answer

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
self/awareness clashes with unity/no-self




id like to see this collision take place
who would it clash with?

:peace:


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________________________________


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OfflineAhimsa
Male

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,790
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: I'm Me...somehow [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #11316849 - 10/25/09 07:53 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

What about awareness being one in itself, and yet it is experienced individually by the separate units being me and you?

Say, within the universe arises awareness when certain conditions are met, such as for example a source of data (sound) and a receiver of that data (ear). Next, our brain creates 'me' and 'i' and 'you' concepts, because that's what brains do, ie. creating concepts and such. Then, your intuition is correct, there is only one awareness by nature, but we can't identify ourself with that awareness because we are it, instead we identify with the idea of 'me' and 'i'. Therefore we don't actually experience that we are awareness but instead we experience being 'ourself'. I suppose this is like saying that we look at what we are through the image of 'ourself' rather than just being the awareness that we are....

The dilemma, it think, is that we can't be awareness individually without limiting it to a 'me' or 'i', nor can we experience the one awareness as individuals, since our individuality makes us separated from each other, and separated from awareness. There is no such thing as a collective 'me' or 'i' to be experienced. We are awareness, but there is no separate individual to experience this one awareness, because awareness contains the individual and not the other way round.

Awareness is what we are. Our brain creates a self-image based upon the sensory input, because of awareness. Although all beings experience the same awareness, the brain creates an individual experiencer through whom awareness manifests itself.


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InvisibleBand of Gypsys
Stranger

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains on the Moon
Re: I'm Me...somehow [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #11317325 - 10/25/09 11:22 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
I think my sense of being a self-contained individual is ultimately an illusion.  It is an important distinction for "me" during this life, so that "I" can survive...and that seems to be it's purpose.

Buuut...how is this illusion possible? How I am myself, as opposed to being you reading this right now, or any other person or creature that has a sense of self?
How am I trapped in this self illusion, when there isn't even truly a "me" to be trapped?

Being me is a strange paradox...




It will wear off in 8-12 hours.


--------------------
S o m e  T e x t


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: I'm Me...somehow [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #11318552 - 10/25/09 03:36 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
I think my sense of being a self-contained individual is ultimately an illusion.  It is an important distinction for "me" during this life, so that "I" can survive...and that seems to be it's purpose.

Buuut...how is this illusion possible? How I am myself, as opposed to being you reading this right now, or any other person or creature that has a sense of self?
How am I trapped in this self illusion, when there isn't even truly a "me" to be trapped?

Being me is a strange paradox...




same way any animal see themselves seperately. It's all brain function. It's all material and chemical. But to understand the intimate workings of life is something we don't understand fully.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: I'm Me...somehow [Re: Icelander]
    #11319086 - 10/25/09 05:05 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
same way any animal see themselves seperately. It's all brain function. It's all material and chemical. But to understand the intimate workings of life is something we don't understand fully.




My soul is made of neuron juice...:syringe:

Seeing as I am Me for the time being, I'm just trying to live it up and help out those other mystery selves along the way.:heart:
This is just a little bit of :banghead: and :stirthepot: and  :whacker: to pass the downtime...

I LOVE YOU SHROOMERY...and I'm sober, so you know I'm half serious.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: I'm Me...somehow [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #11323650 - 10/26/09 01:14 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Sounds great. Live it up brother.:thumbup::satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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