Home | Community | Message Board


Marijuana Demystified
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Invisiblederanger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
We cannot possibly know through this veil
    #11302094 - 10/22/09 09:29 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

This has to do with an idea that's been tossed around here a few times. 

"All things that exist can be measured"

Imagine ourselves as cells with inventions that allow us to measure our environment.  Imagine our body as the universe.  If the cell has no way of directly experiencing its greater body, how could it even begin to measure it?  What would "it" be anyways?  "It" would most likely be not what it actually is, but something imagined by the cell mixed in with some truth.  The cell's measurements may have some basis in truth, but the delusion of having the greater picture distorted by imagination makes any partial truth irrelevant when it comes to finding any truth whatsoever about about the overall, or underlying picture of the greater body.  So it is not the greater body that is being measured.

So can all things that exist be measured? 

Or are we like tiny cells thinking we know shit, and can know shit, but in actuality not getting anywhere, at all.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibletruffleupagus
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 3,092
Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: deranger]
    #11302156 - 10/22/09 09:41 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

You just dosed, didn't you?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblederanger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: truffleupagus]
    #11302173 - 10/22/09 09:44 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I'm permadosed.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: deranger]
    #11307303 - 10/23/09 06:25 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
This has to do with an idea that's been tossed around here a few times. 

"All things that exist can be measured"


OK, I'll bear with you here.



Quote:

deranger said:
Imagine ourselves as cells with inventions that allow us to measure our environment.


What do you mean by "ourselves"? Do you mean ourselves as in each individual, ourselves as in Shroomery members, ourselves as in citizens of the USA, ourselves as human beings, or ourselves as anything that exists? :confused:



Quote:

deranger said:
Imagine our body as the universe.


I will not entertain this statement until you clearly define what you mean by "our". :shrug:



Quote:

deranger said:
If the cell has no way of directly experiencing its greater body, how could it even begin to measure it?


So the converse of this statement is if "the cell" is able to experience its "greater body" (whatever that means), it would also be able to measure it?



Quote:

deranger said:
What would "it" be anyways?


I don't fucking know, the burden of proof is on the claimant. Which is you, BTW.



Quote:

deranger said:
"It" would most likely be not what it actually is, but something imagined by the cell mixed in with some truth.  The cell's measurements may have some basis in truth, but the delusion of having the greater picture distorted by imagination makes any partial truth irrelevant when it comes to finding any truth whatsoever about about the overall, or underlying picture of the greater body.  So it is not the greater body that is being measured.


Then what do you suppose is being measured? :strokebeard:



Quote:

deranger said:
So can all things that exist be measured?


That's a good question, but I'm going to have to go with my gut and say "yes".



Quote:

deranger said:
Or are we like tiny cells thinking we know shit, and can know shit, but in actuality not getting anywhere, at all.


Every different cell has a unique function.  :jimmorrison:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleBand of Gypsys
Stranger

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains on the Moon
Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: deranger]
    #11307465 - 10/23/09 06:53 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
"All things that exist can be measured"





:rofl2:


--------------------
S o m e  T e x t


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblederanger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: Poid]
    #11308479 - 10/23/09 10:09 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
So can all things that exist be measured?  That's a good question, but I'm going to have to go with my gut and say "yes".




if cells are measured within the sun, are we measuring the sun?  no, we are measuring cells within the sun. 

similarly, when we measure the macrocosm, we are not measuring the macrocosm itself, rather mere details of it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineNoteworthy
Sophyphile
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: deranger]
    #11309479 - 10/24/09 02:16 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Not sure if everyone got the point of the thread (or if I did). As far as I can see, this thread is 'questioning' the notion that all things that exist can be detected.

And I think it is stupid to say that it is necessary for all things to be measurable by humans.

However, in order for us to CLAIM that something in particular exists, we would have to be able to measure it. We can still claim that 'something' exists beyond our measurements, because all measurements have discrepancies and thus we can say that something exists that we have not accounted for. However, to make a claim and say this something is 'something in particular' would require a particular type of measurement


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: deranger]
    #11311403 - 10/24/09 01:39 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
Quote:

Poid said:
So can all things that exist be measured?  That's a good question, but I'm going to have to go with my gut and say "yes".




if cells are measured within the sun


You need to clarify what you mean by "cells", there are many different types of cells.

Do you mean to ask, "If any type of cell is literally being measured inside the sun..."?



Quote:

deranger said:
are we measuring the sun?  no, we are measuring cells within the sun.


As far as I know, the sun is composed of atoms, not cells. :shrug:

 

Quote:

deranger said:
similarly, when we measure the macrocosm...


Which/what macrocosm? :what:



Quote:

deranger said:
we are not measuring the macrocosm itself, rather mere details of it.


What's the difference? :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblederanger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: Poid]
    #11311619 - 10/24/09 02:07 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

As far as I know, the sun is composed of atoms, not cells.

OK smartypants :lol:

Which/what macrocosm? :what:

something like this



What's the difference? :shrug:

that's one way of looking at it, but you're missing the point.  how can we measure something we cannot see.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* every experience that is a possible outcome, is existing all at once Syle 1,373 14 07/05/07 07:10 PM
by cognitiveshift
* A rant on the nature of existence
( 1 2 all )
Cakes 1,863 29 10/21/08 03:39 PM
by DieCommie
* Existence
( 1 2 all )
Ravus 2,680 24 09/06/05 05:57 PM
by Delusion_of_Self
* do aliens exist?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
dorkus 3,620 66 02/05/05 11:32 PM
by incubaby_421
* soul, spirit... does it exist?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all )
HALFemptyJOSH 8,933 164 03/08/08 03:40 PM
by deranger
* Is there a "why" to existence?
( 1 2 all )
silversoul7 1,017 22 08/06/04 01:31 AM
by tnecseda
* objective reality does not exist
( 1 2 all )
monoamine 4,565 34 11/01/02 10:55 AM
by Newbie2000
* When a skeptic becomes an evidence and logic dodger!
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Ego Death 7,740 113 02/07/05 07:51 PM
by Ego Death

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
321 topic views. 1 members, 5 guests and 10 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Kratom Eye
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.029 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 19 queries.