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Invisiblederanger
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We cannot possibly know through this veil
    #11302094 - 10/22/09 07:29 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

This has to do with an idea that's been tossed around here a few times. 

"All things that exist can be measured"

Imagine ourselves as cells with inventions that allow us to measure our environment.  Imagine our body as the universe.  If the cell has no way of directly experiencing its greater body, how could it even begin to measure it?  What would "it" be anyways?  "It" would most likely be not what it actually is, but something imagined by the cell mixed in with some truth.  The cell's measurements may have some basis in truth, but the delusion of having the greater picture distorted by imagination makes any partial truth irrelevant when it comes to finding any truth whatsoever about about the overall, or underlying picture of the greater body.  So it is not the greater body that is being measured.

So can all things that exist be measured? 

Or are we like tiny cells thinking we know shit, and can know shit, but in actuality not getting anywhere, at all.

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Invisibletruffleupagus
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Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: deranger]
    #11302156 - 10/22/09 07:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

You just dosed, didn't you?

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: truffleupagus]
    #11302173 - 10/22/09 07:44 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I'm permadosed.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: deranger]
    #11307303 - 10/23/09 04:25 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
This has to do with an idea that's been tossed around here a few times. 

"All things that exist can be measured"


OK, I'll bear with you here.



Quote:

deranger said:
Imagine ourselves as cells with inventions that allow us to measure our environment.


What do you mean by "ourselves"? Do you mean ourselves as in each individual, ourselves as in Shroomery members, ourselves as in citizens of the USA, ourselves as human beings, or ourselves as anything that exists? :confused:



Quote:

deranger said:
Imagine our body as the universe.


I will not entertain this statement until you clearly define what you mean by "our". :shrug:



Quote:

deranger said:
If the cell has no way of directly experiencing its greater body, how could it even begin to measure it?


So the converse of this statement is if "the cell" is able to experience its "greater body" (whatever that means), it would also be able to measure it?



Quote:

deranger said:
What would "it" be anyways?


I don't fucking know, the burden of proof is on the claimant. Which is you, BTW.



Quote:

deranger said:
"It" would most likely be not what it actually is, but something imagined by the cell mixed in with some truth.  The cell's measurements may have some basis in truth, but the delusion of having the greater picture distorted by imagination makes any partial truth irrelevant when it comes to finding any truth whatsoever about about the overall, or underlying picture of the greater body.  So it is not the greater body that is being measured.


Then what do you suppose is being measured? :strokebeard:



Quote:

deranger said:
So can all things that exist be measured?


That's a good question, but I'm going to have to go with my gut and say "yes".



Quote:

deranger said:
Or are we like tiny cells thinking we know shit, and can know shit, but in actuality not getting anywhere, at all.


Every different cell has a unique function.  :jimmorrison:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleBand of Gypsys
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Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: deranger]
    #11307465 - 10/23/09 04:53 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
"All things that exist can be measured"





:rofl2:


--------------------
S o m e  T e x t

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: Poid]
    #11308479 - 10/23/09 08:09 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
So can all things that exist be measured?  That's a good question, but I'm going to have to go with my gut and say "yes".




if cells are measured within the sun, are we measuring the sun?  no, we are measuring cells within the sun. 

similarly, when we measure the macrocosm, we are not measuring the macrocosm itself, rather mere details of it.

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: deranger]
    #11309479 - 10/24/09 12:16 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Not sure if everyone got the point of the thread (or if I did). As far as I can see, this thread is 'questioning' the notion that all things that exist can be detected.

And I think it is stupid to say that it is necessary for all things to be measurable by humans.

However, in order for us to CLAIM that something in particular exists, we would have to be able to measure it. We can still claim that 'something' exists beyond our measurements, because all measurements have discrepancies and thus we can say that something exists that we have not accounted for. However, to make a claim and say this something is 'something in particular' would require a particular type of measurement


--------------------

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: deranger]
    #11311403 - 10/24/09 11:39 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
Quote:

Poid said:
So can all things that exist be measured?  That's a good question, but I'm going to have to go with my gut and say "yes".




if cells are measured within the sun


You need to clarify what you mean by "cells", there are many different types of cells.

Do you mean to ask, "If any type of cell is literally being measured inside the sun..."?



Quote:

deranger said:
are we measuring the sun?  no, we are measuring cells within the sun.


As far as I know, the sun is composed of atoms, not cells. :shrug:

 

Quote:

deranger said:
similarly, when we measure the macrocosm...


Which/what macrocosm? :what:



Quote:

deranger said:
we are not measuring the macrocosm itself, rather mere details of it.


What's the difference? :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisiblederanger
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Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
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Re: We cannot possibly know through this veil [Re: Poid]
    #11311619 - 10/24/09 12:07 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

As far as I know, the sun is composed of atoms, not cells.

OK smartypants :lol:

Which/what macrocosm? :what:

something like this



What's the difference? :shrug:

that's one way of looking at it, but you're missing the point.  how can we measure something we cannot see.

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