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OfflineDune
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Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 28
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Reality
    #11300091 - 10/22/09 04:38 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

Is reality subjective, objective, both or neither?
I.e. is reality different for every one, is it the same or are different aspects different for every whilst still
keeping similar aspects. If both then HOW subjective or objective is it ?

What do you guys think ?


--------------------
'you cannot tread the path before you become that path yourself' ~ Zen Saying

Who's mouth is possibly big enough to describe things as they are? ~ Alan Watts


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,017
Re: Reality [Re: Dune]
    #11300115 - 10/22/09 04:41 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

I think reality is defined as objective.  Reality is that which exists regardless, or outside of perception.


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Offlinelaserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
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Re: Reality [Re: DieCommie]
    #11300151 - 10/22/09 04:47 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Reality is that which exists regardless, or outside of perception.



In other words, the only real reality can never be confirmed to exist?
That's not good news. :shocked:


Seriously though, I don't really get the question. The universe exists, and this is how it looks to me. What are you actually asking about that situation?


--------------------
Weedmaster P knows the truth.


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OfflineAhimsa
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Registered: 01/11/07
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Re: Reality [Re: Dune]
    #11300380 - 10/22/09 05:15 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

Reality is what we are. It is not different from anything, because it is everything. Reality is not inside us nor is it outside us, because for reality there are no sides. For reality there is only itself, and that's why it isn't realized.

Reality is the awareness of itself. It is real only to itself. As soon as we try to see ourself separated from it then we become only a thought. We may have thoughts but we never are them.

Be real, be the reality you always were.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Reality [Re: Dune]
    #11300638 - 10/22/09 05:50 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Dune said:
Is reality subjective, objective, both or neither?


Reality is everything, including experiential subjective experiences.



Quote:

Dune said:
I.e. is reality different for every one...


In terms of subjective experience, yes.



Quote:

Dune said:
...is it the same or are different aspects different for every whilst still keeping similar aspects.


I don't think this, and would like to see you further explain this line of thought.


Quote:

Dune said:
If both then HOW subjective or objective is it ?


This question does not really make too much sense to me: Subjectivity/objectivity are phenomenon of qualitative value, not quantitative value.


Quote:

Dune said:
What do you guys think ?


Honestly, so far, I think it's BS. If you'd like to explain yourself further, then maybe I'll change my mind. :justdontknow:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineDune
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Re: Reality [Re: Poid]
    #11301157 - 10/22/09 07:12 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

I wans't really trying to state my views, i was just trying to find out other's views. I personally believe that reality is different for every one as the only way we can experience 'reality' is through our senses, and since everybodies senses are individual and can change so readily (through the use of psychoactives) then no two people can truly experience the same thing.


--------------------
'you cannot tread the path before you become that path yourself' ~ Zen Saying

Who's mouth is possibly big enough to describe things as they are? ~ Alan Watts


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Reality [Re: Dune]
    #11301228 - 10/22/09 07:24 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Dune said:
I wans't really trying to state my views, i was just trying to find out other's views.


So you weren't trying to debate in a debate-oriented forum? :confused:


Quote:

Dune said:
I personally believe that reality is different for every one as the only way we can experience 'reality' is through our senses...


I think this is an obvious truth, that subjective reality is different for everyone.


Quote:

Dune said:
....and since everybodies senses are individual and can change so readily (through the use of psychoactives) then no two people can truly experience the same thing.


It almost seems like you had a point here! :lol:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,017
Re: Reality [Re: laserpig]
    #11302746 - 10/22/09 11:08 PM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

laserpig said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Reality is that which exists regardless, or outside of perception.



In other words, the only real reality can never be confirmed to exist?
That's not good news. :shocked:





Its not?  Im not sure about it never being confirmed... In my book very high percentages of likelihood are sufficient to being confirmed.

Regardless, I cant think of any better word to describe that which exists outside of perception (whether or not it actually exists).  If its not reality then what is it?


Edited by DieCommie (10/22/09 11:16 PM)


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Reality [Re: Dune]
    #11304424 - 10/23/09 06:28 AM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Dune said:
Is reality subjective, objective, both or neither?
I.e. is reality different for every one, is it the same or are different aspects different for every whilst still
keeping similar aspects. If both then HOW subjective or objective is it ?

What do you guys think ?




For something to be really termed 'Reality' it must be relaible, consistent & permanent

:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
Re: Reality [Re: Chronic7]
    #11304440 - 10/23/09 06:47 AM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Quote:

Dune said:
Is reality subjective, objective, both or neither?
I.e. is reality different for every one, is it the same or are different aspects different for every whilst still
keeping similar aspects. If both then HOW subjective or objective is it ?

What do you guys think ?




For something to be really termed 'Reality' it must be relaible, consistent & permanent

:peace:




Why?


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Reality [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11304448 - 10/23/09 07:04 AM (8 years, 2 days ago)

How else can it be called Reality unless it is permanent?

If a temporary object apepars & you take it to be real, when the object dis-appears, then along with it goes its reality

Of course you can make relative arguments, but those arguements are just as fleeting & unreal, as is this one im making now

All of it eventually goes 'poof!'
Whatever goes 'poof!' is unreal

:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


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OfflineXeny

Registered: 02/15/08
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Re: Reality [Re: Chronic7]
    #11304481 - 10/23/09 07:29 AM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
How else can it be called Reality unless it is permanent?

If a temporary object apepars & you take it to be real, when the object dis-appears, then along with it goes its reality



So reality doesn't exist, nothing is real?


--------------------
Ik hou van je

While you're still sleeping the saints are still weepin' cause things you call dead haven't yet had the chance to be born. -Scatman John


Edited by Xeny (10/23/09 07:29 AM)


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
Re: Reality [Re: Chronic7]
    #11304517 - 10/23/09 08:00 AM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
How else can it be called Reality unless it is permanent?

If a temporary object apepars & you take it to be real, when the object dis-appears, then along with it goes its reality

Of course you can make relative arguments, but those arguements are just as fleeting & unreal, as is this one im making now

All of it eventually goes 'poof!'
Whatever goes 'poof!' is unreal

:peace:




Xeny has a good point here. Isn't everything impermanent? Even according to your poofing example.

Reality for you, as far as I understand you, excludes any "poofed" phenomena that are not present to the individual. So this only begs the question, how do poofed things return as reality; aren't they stored, existing, implicit somewhere else beyond the explication of poofing?

The type of object reality you're talking about is not really Reality, but a special variant of it. Although I am also keen on undermining the presupposition that reality is substance, I don't think your reply is satisfying (it's an interesting phenomenological theory though). And it's definitely not any more enlightening or useful than the limited scientific theory of reality as material substance.


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Reality [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11304546 - 10/23/09 08:16 AM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Reality is Awareness

:peace:


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InvisibleKukaracha
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Registered: 12/18/08
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Re: Reality [Re: Dune]
    #11305432 - 10/23/09 12:51 PM (8 years, 2 days ago)

I think reality is objective.

It's the belief that you and similar beings are living in the same wordl; it implies that you live similar experiences.

In the absolute, reality is a belief, but I don't think you can say that it's "subjective to everyone", or else it would mean that similar beings exist around you but they live in different worlds (how do you know there are different beings if you don't share anything?).
It wouldn't be solipsism as you think that you're not alone, but it wouldn't be the common definition of reality as you have nothing in common with other beings.


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OfflineAhimsa
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Registered: 01/11/07
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Re: Reality [Re: Chronic7]
    #11305756 - 10/23/09 02:04 PM (8 years, 2 days ago)

How can there be a person to whom reality is permanent?
Does this person stand outside of reality, so that he/she can look upon it as permanent or impermanent?
Doesn't that imply that the person is an imagined entity?
To whom does reality appear?
If reality is all, who could perceive it as being separate from him-/herself?

I wonder.


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Reality [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11305828 - 10/23/09 02:19 PM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Ahimsa said:
To whom does reality appear?





:peace:


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InvisibleBand of Gypsys
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Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains on the Moon
Re: Reality [Re: Chronic7]
    #11305858 - 10/23/09 02:25 PM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Reality appears to the observer.


--------------------
S o m e  T e x t


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Reality [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11305888 - 10/23/09 02:30 PM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Who is the observer?

:peace:


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: Reality [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11305893 - 10/23/09 02:31 PM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Isn't the observer that very same reality?
If so, isn't the observance not an illusion of reality?
If not, is the observer separate from reality, and therefore unreal?


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