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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: china [Re: DieCommie]
    #11279733 - 10/19/09 07:36 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Hes a trustafarian with an estate in china.  Of course it will be good for him.





:lol:

Yup. Honestly, I wouldn't live out the rest of my life in China. I would only consider it if China straightened up its human rights. If that were to occur, China would almost be no different than any other capitalistic country in the world. China's economy is already substantially less communist, and more socialist and capitalist, than it was 50 years ago. If the trend were to continue, my opinions on living there could change.


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
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Hasta siempre, comandante.
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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: china [Re: meatcakeman]
    #11280003 - 10/19/09 08:07 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I was referring to the topic of this thread: China.

France or the UK are irrelevant.


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: china [Re: Redstorm]
    #11280442 - 10/19/09 08:57 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I never said I was going to live in China. I said it was an option; the last option.

But when it comes down to it, living in China has its benefits, too.

China provides a HUGE market for anyone and all of those whom can tap into it. Saab was bought from GM and will do exceptionally well in China's booming automobile market. And in such a reference, a college graduate with fresh, new skills approved by most of the professional U.S. will do exceptionally well in China due to all of the booming markets it provides. It's substantially easier to open a business there. And having ties to the U.S. makes you a useful resource for any and all Chinese companies. Thus, China provides more for us than the U.S. because it actually WANTS us. You can graduate from a college here and find nothing fulfilling to do besides an office job working in a cubicle, which is only marginally fulfilling in that it provides us monetary resources.

China is like rich, fertile soil that has just been found. The U.S. is like farming land that has been aimlessly overused and commercialized and exploited.

Sure, China also has its downfalls. It is still a developing Communist country. Poverty is prevalent. But those are pitfalls only a Chinese-born citizen has to worry about. As a foreigner, you have much leeway in China. Not only can you establish business relations with the U.S. from China, but you can also tap into markets elsewhere; the UK, Russia, Brazil, Korea, Japan, etc.

If I overlooked any other cons of living in China, please do tell.


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:


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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: china [Re: meatcakeman]
    #11280982 - 10/19/09 10:16 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

meatcakeman said:
Quote:

ScavengerType said:
Anyway, it's important to point out that the other story contravening the independent article in the aforementioned thread is credible and cites responses from many of the central banks of countries that were listed in the independent article.

In other words the USD is not in imminent threat of being dropped as a world currency... any more than usual.





That doesn't deny the fact that it's slowly losing its credibility on the world stage.




True but if that article was true the USD would have dropped like a stone once anything confirming the report had surfaced. It dropped noticeably between the time the independent article was published and the time rebuttals tied to established sources surfaced.

If you are thinking that I am a USApologist I think you are mistaken. I am not even an american.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: china [Re: ScavengerType]
    #11281555 - 10/20/09 12:14 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

i think like most places, if you have money and are "upper society" china will be great for you.  if your the kind of person that doesn't like hypocrisy, or cant stand the double standards of everyday life (ie. you are treated like royalty while the streets have people without health care or any kind of social service) than maybe not.

nothing against the land, its a beautiful country and LOADED with cool history, but the politics and social systems are shit, and wrong.  like other nations.  we have many friends there with business, doing school, living there, my sister in law is chinese, and we have been there....all i can sum up china with is "not going back, not buying their stuff" :shrug:

meatcakeman, i agree with you, once they start to rethink how they treat their own, and others, it may become more appealing.  I can understand why so many foreigners go there to work though (well not the indonesian and vietnamese that get sucked into slavery and prostitution)...as long as they keep their eyes closed or are not too sensitive to things, they can probably live a very nice material type life :smile:

personally i dont consider taiwan china, but jstu for info sake i moved here (being a canadian) and i have full access to everything a citizen has except a few things (like voting).  i have full medical, its better and cheaper than even canada....and no WAITING!, can drive, good pay, people are happy and treated fairly (free, democratic country), poverty is fairly low, and there isn't the insane money grab you see in many places in china (mainly factory areas) where people will do anything to try and sue you and get a payout.

going abroad can be a great choice....both mentally and financially, just pick teh country that suites your needs.  honestly, i couldn't handle being in China for anything more than a vacation.


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: china [Re: kadakuda]
    #11281695 - 10/20/09 12:37 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

My instincts tell me that given the big picture view of a world nearing resource depletion that a country as populous and ambitious as China will implode soon. They cannot possibly sustain that economy growth or expand it to their hinterlands. That loss of hope will be crushing to the Chinese people. I think we will see increasing chaos in China soon.

They are frantically (and smartly) trying to buy up resources using their US dollars before everyone else figures out these green rectangular pieces of paper they hold are actually pieces of toilet paper given the enormous deficits and money printing going on in the U.S.

A resurgent Russia is who we need to watch out for. They are more self-sufficient when it comes to resources.

Energy and water will be the watchwords of the decades ahead for all industrialized nations.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Edited by zorbman (10/20/09 12:56 AM)


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: china [Re: kadakuda]
    #11281733 - 10/20/09 12:44 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

kadakuda said:
i think like most places, if you have money and are "upper society" china will be great for you.  if your the kind of person that doesn't like hypocrisy, or cant stand the double standards of everyday life (ie. you are treated like royalty while the streets have people without health care or any kind of social service) than maybe not.

nothing against the land, its a beautiful country and LOADED with cool history, but the politics and social systems are shit, and wrong.  like other nations.  we have many friends there with business, doing school, living there, my sister in law is chinese, and we have been there....all i can sum up china with is "not going back, not buying their stuff" :shrug:

meatcakeman, i agree with you, once they start to rethink how they treat their own, and others, it may become more appealing.  I can understand why so many foreigners go there to work though (well not the indonesian and vietnamese that get sucked into slavery and prostitution)...as long as they keep their eyes closed or are not too sensitive to things, they can probably live a very nice material type life :smile:

personally i dont consider taiwan china, but jstu for info sake i moved here (being a canadian) and i have full access to everything a citizen has except a few things (like voting).  i have full medical, its better and cheaper than even canada....and no WAITING!, can drive, good pay, people are happy and treated fairly (free, democratic country), poverty is fairly low, and there isn't the insane money grab you see in many places in china (mainly factory areas) where people will do anything to try and sue you and get a payout.

going abroad can be a great choice....both mentally and financially, just pick teh country that suites your needs.  honestly, i couldn't handle being in China for anything more than a vacation.





You think Taiwan is greater than China....?
:facepalm:

Taiwan is one of the worst places to be in terms of politics. I'm sure you know of the last President's scandals. If not, he lied to his people, stole taxpayers' money, committed fraud, and even staged his own 'attempted assassination' just for the publicity. I'm really keen on Chinese-Taiwan politics so I was all over that controversy. It's politicians like that that bring down Taiwan, and make it look bad on the world stage. Taiwan's current President is a bit better. He's Chinese, not Taiwanese, and vows to mend the poor relations between China and its little brother, Taiwan; President Ma's ancestry traces him back to the same province my parents are from. But even HE's in a swarm of controversy. Supposedly, he and his wife lied about their birthplaces. :shrug:


IMO, China isn't a better place to live than Taiwan, but it will be within the next two to three years. Taiwan's political structure is just too weak. There's no stability.

And my opinions aren't biased either. Both of my grandfathers were Chinese Nationalists. My grandfather's brother was even the governor of Taiwan at one point in time. But corruption within the KMT was prevalent, so my grandfather says. Their underlying plan was to regain economic stability in order to retake mainland China for themselves. :facepalm:
My grandfather despised Taiwan. Thus, my family fled to the U.S. to live in a 'better' society that practiced 'equality'. And here I am today; an individual lost amidst this cloud of uncertainty and lost identity.

/end high rant


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: china [Re: meatcakeman]
    #11282357 - 10/20/09 06:13 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

You think Taiwan is greater than China....?




nope, never said that.  i only mentioned that part of taiwan because there was talk above about living abroad and why, so i was giving my opinion on living abroad where i am living now (taiwan).  i was not saying it is better.  in a separate topic in my post i was talking about the things i dislike about china, it was not meant to be linked with the taiwan paragraph.

i am well aware of Chen's lies (i call him diarrhea as his name sounds similar to "water" and "poo", anyway, i despise the guy and he has a life sentence, so as corrupt as things are at least he got his....but still there is the money missing...he was a royal douche bag, no doubt!  Ma is too, he just hasn't been caught yet.  i would actually liken politics hereto that of the USA in that the DDP here is like the libs, really crooked with a more social face and the KMT like the repubs being more cold hearted business gangsters.

Quote:

IMO, China isn't a better place to live than Taiwan, but it will be within the next two to three years. Taiwan's political structure is just too weak. There's no stability.




i dont know if China will become better....taiwan is surely unstable politically but this is also largely because of chinas threat towards taiwan....china tries to oppress taiwan at every turn and it has turned into a VERY childish popularity contest with most countries agreeing with taiwan but almost none officially saying so because they fear trade relations being hurt with china (and china threatening to do this and that if another nation sides with taiwan)....hows that to mature governing?  greed, nothing more. 

despite taiwans political scene, i am now going to go ahead and say taiwan is a nicer place to live as far as quality of life.  its far safer than china, the only real dangers here are earthquakes, typhoons and China....people here can vote (which means as much as you want it to....we all would likely agree to some extent that elections don't do a whole lot....bush - case in point).everyone here has medical coverage, of good quality, even if poor and cant afford it.many people actually own houses, over 80%. i consider personal wealth to be relatively high compared to other countries...maybe GDP aint scoring great, but from what i see living here for some years is people rarely live an actual hard life...but that is after a very hard adjustment and a cruel life under kmt rule and japanese rule before that....so i hope china is on the same or a similar path to a more social life...thats just my hope.  by china i generally mean the gov, not so much the general public.


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: china [Re: ScavengerType]
    #11282364 - 10/20/09 06:18 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

China's brain drain to the US offsets the US brain drain to China by more than a little.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: china [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #11282367 - 10/20/09 06:21 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

that reminds me...i remember watching tv when england gave back hong kong to china.  interesting sight, and there was also a FLOOD of hong kong people leaving to new lands for that very reason.  i know many cities in canada and the US got a ton of hong kong folks when that happened.  tells us something.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: china [Re: kadakuda]
    #11282457 - 10/20/09 07:05 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

If I overlooked any other cons of living in China, please do tell.




Like the horrific air pollution in larger cities?


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: china [Re: kadakuda]
    #11286056 - 10/20/09 05:52 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

kadakuda said:
i dont know if China will become better....taiwan is surely unstable politically but this is also largely because of chinas threat towards taiwan....china tries to oppress taiwan at every turn and it has turned into a VERY childish popularity contest with most countries agreeing with taiwan but almost none officially saying so because they fear trade relations being hurt with china (and china threatening to do this and that if another nation sides with taiwan)....hows that to mature governing?  greed, nothing more. 

despite taiwans political scene, i am now going to go ahead and say taiwan is a nicer place to live as far as quality of life.  its far safer than china, the only real dangers here are earthquakes, typhoons and China....people here can vote (which means as much as you want it to....we all would likely agree to some extent that elections don't do a whole lot....bush - case in point).everyone here has medical coverage, of good quality, even if poor and cant afford it.many people actually own houses, over 80%. i consider personal wealth to be relatively high compared to other countries...maybe GDP aint scoring great, but from what i see living here for some years is people rarely live an actual hard life...but that is after a very hard adjustment and a cruel life under kmt rule and japanese rule before that....so i hope china is on the same or a similar path to a more social life...thats just my hope.  by china i generally mean the gov, not so much the general public.





Taiwan is not innocent if we play the blame game. Taiwan wants to retake China and claim it as Nationalist. They can't get over the fact that they lost the Civil War. How's that for childish?

And, yes, China doesn't help alleviate the problem, but that doesn't deny the fact that it DOES want to mend ties. China is China. Taiwan is Taiwan. But the people are the same. We speak the same language, and read the same writing, although China now has Simplified Chinese (it's not that much different from Traditional Chinese). The two bickering governments know this. Sure, it doesn't help that China has missiles capable of destroying all of Taiwan pointing towards it at all times. But China is developing; the People's Republic was barely conceived in 1949. China is like a newborn. It is new to the world market; it is new to world politics; and it is new to the world stage. It's barely passed the 'baby steps' stage in terms of world affairs. It has promise, yes, but it has to own up to its potential.

And don't be fooled by the facade of Communism. Chinese citizens can vote. Yes, there is corruption, but what government doesn't have some dirt on its feet. But I do see change, though it is slow. But I hope for the best.

As for me, I'm torn between Taiwan and China. I have family in both and would like to see nothing more than peace. But pride and greed are what tear us apart.


--------------------
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:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: china [Re: meatcakeman]
    #11290212 - 10/21/09 03:53 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Laos is much better than China and Taiwan put together, so there. :razz:


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: china [Re: fireworks_god]
    #11297552 - 10/22/09 03:32 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Taiwan is not innocent if we play the blame game. Taiwan wants to retake China and claim it as Nationalist. They can't get over the fact that they lost the Civil War. How's that for childish?




that is a failed dream that just isn't reality anymore.  i really don't think even the most far out KMT ever think that possible again, it jsut can't happen and everyone knows this, and i dont see anyone, even hint of wanting it, here in Taiwan.  What i see most is for China to leave Taiwan alone and let it play where it belongs.  It is an independent nation in literally every way except the fact it is threatened to never officially say so...although i cant ever see China using those missiles, they are still a definite threat and a convincing one not to declare independence for the people.

Quote:

Laos is much better than China and Taiwan put together, so there. :razz:




I wouldn't know, never been, if your serious i will make a point of going there.  I like taiwan in a infrastructure kind of way, but it is an environmental catastrophe in my opinion....at least china is so big they still have much more natural beauty intact.

If only we could pick this form there and that form here and make a new system.  i totally agree every nation has its problems, but i tend to side with the thieves and liars over the murderers and oppressors :shrug:


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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