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OfflinePhluck
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Doctor assisted suicide.
    #1129575 - 12/10/02 04:06 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Is anyone here actually against this?

There are people that are dying, they can barely function, all they can do is sit there, shitting, eating mush, and going through horrible pain. They want to die while they still have that last shred of dignity, but they're not allowed. Why not? Because It's Just Not Right.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Phluck]
    #1129620 - 12/10/02 04:21 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

People should be able to end their lives when and how they choose as long as no physical harm comes to those around them.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Phluck]
    #1129634 - 12/10/02 04:30 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I don't have a problem with people using any means to kill themselves. The less people the better in my book.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlineehud
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Phluck]
    #1129641 - 12/10/02 04:32 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

ok heres a what-if: What if they are not capable of making the decision and it is up to the family to decide? This sort of changes things, there becomes a fine line between suicide and euthenasia (sp). It does make you wonder what you will want when the time comes. Me I just want some strong ass drugs, and maybe a little bit of halucinagens.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: ehud]
    #1129840 - 12/10/02 05:56 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

The question was about ending your own life. There was no mention of others ending it for you.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Phluck]
    #1130005 - 12/10/02 06:54 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I equate that with suicide and murder.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Zahid]
    #1130346 - 12/10/02 08:49 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

"I equate that with suicide and murder."

Why? They're lives aren't going to waste, all they can do is sit around in pain and shit themselves for a few more months while their insides rot. Why not let them kill themselves?


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: ehud]
    #1130377 - 12/10/02 08:59 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

ehud writes:

What if they are not capable of making the decision and it is up to the family to decide? This sort of changes things, there becomes a fine line between suicide and euthenasia.

Yup. That is indeed where things get sticky, unless the dying one has left unequivocal, witnessed declarations explicitly stating his intentions, and even then there are potential problems: what if he has a spiritual epiphany and changes his mind, deciding to ride it out to the end no matter what, but is no longer able to communicate effectively his change of heart -- i.e. paralysis prevents him from doing so?

Phluck has raised a tough question indeed. In my opinion, this thread should be moved to the Spirituality and Philosophy forum. I believe we would get more varied input there than here.

pinky


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OfflineCHeeCHer
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1130601 - 12/10/02 10:04 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

The topic is "Doctor assisted suicide", i was assuming phluck was talking about euthanasia, (although i could be most definately wrong) The way I see it, No one should be denied the right to end their own lives, even if they aren't capable of doing so themselves

Just a little tid-bit on Dr. Jack if anyone cares .... (so sad)
http://www.courttv.com/casefiles/kevorkian/kevorkian.html



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I'm like King Midas in reverse. Everything I touch turns to shit.

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Phluck]
    #1130732 - 12/10/02 10:48 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Suicide is creepy, man.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Zahid]
    #1131128 - 12/11/02 04:42 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Lieing there in pain as your insides rot with no hope of a cure is creepy. A machine keeping you alive with no hope of recovery is creepy. Knowing for the next several decades someone has to feed you and wipe your ass is creepy.

People should have the option to end it.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Phluck]
    #1131184 - 12/11/02 06:14 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Does one of the big arguments against physician-assisted suicide come from the hypocratic oath, or is anyone who assists another's suicide in the same boat legally as a doctor?

And how about suicide in itself--is there a law against that? (Er, at least against attempting it...)

Just a side note--anyone here read "Messiah" by Gore Vidal?

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InvisibleFrog31337
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1131577 - 12/11/02 10:37 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

People should be able to end their lives when and how they choose as long as no physical harm comes to those around them.



I totally agree. I have had friends that have killed themselves. It hurt a lot because I cared for them and they didn't talk to me about it before hand. Regardless of my personal feelings what I think/feel should not be used to stop someone who has decided that living on Earth isn't worth it.

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Frog31337]
    #1131664 - 12/11/02 11:10 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I think people should take steps to prevent healthy young people from committing suicide, as that's usually just a result of teen angst. The vast majority of young people with failed suicide attempts regret the attempt within a year.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1132635 - 12/11/02 12:46 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Physically suffering isn't wrong. Suicide is.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Phluck]
    #1132787 - 12/11/02 01:44 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I think it's a good idea. I wouldn't want to be old and have memory problems. I mean, who would really want to live when all they can do is eat, sleep and piss themselves?

I would hate to be stuck in a body that starts malfunctioning. All my senses would start going and I'll jest be a shell that shits.  <-- Fuck that!

Me I just want some strong ass drugs, and maybe a little bit of halucinagens.
Hell-yeah!  :grin:


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Zahid]
    #1132848 - 12/11/02 02:06 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

"Physically suffering isn't wrong. Suicide is."

Why, in this case, is it wrong? They're definately going to die soon anyways, they can't do anything else, I don't see what's wrong with that?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Phluck]
    #1133028 - 12/11/02 03:22 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Suicide is killing, which is wrong. It doesn't make a difference if you are killing someone else, or yourself. So [your perception] if someone is physically suffering from an illness, it's ok to kill the self. But if they are mentally suffering, depression, bipolar, manic, whatever--it's suddenly not ok. Suffering of any kind is not an excuse to kill the self. Suffering is suffering. Killing is killing.


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Edited by Zahid (12/11/02 03:23 PM)

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Zahid]
    #1133046 - 12/11/02 03:28 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Do you have a reason why killing is wrong? Or is it just wrong for the sake of being wrong? Do you eat meat?

I didn't say it's not okay to kill oneself if they're depressed, there may even be some cases where this is okay. The difference is, they can function, and they aren't going to die from their illness. Teenage kids who are pretty much definately going to get over it shouldn't commit suicide.

Someone who is suffering and has nothing to look forward to but a few more months of pain should have every right to kill themselves. Killing themselves will only save them from some more excrutiating pain.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Phluck]
    #1133066 - 12/11/02 03:35 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

You would think by now you would have gotten the hint that it's a religious thing. :tongue: 


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Zahid]
    #1133076 - 12/11/02 03:38 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Ah yes, the old "it's wrong because some old book says so" excuse.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Phluck]
    #1133083 - 12/11/02 03:40 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

The obvious,

Killing is killing, shouts the loudest.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Zahid]
    #1133201 - 12/11/02 04:24 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Killing is killing, I'll agree with that.

But not all killing is wrong.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Phluck]
    #1134116 - 12/12/02 03:14 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Phluck writes:

Do you have a reason why killing is wrong? Or is it just wrong for the sake of being wrong?

Zahid is wrong. Suicide is not "killing". Killing requires that the killer take an action -- stab, strangle, bludgeon, administer poison to the victim, etc. It is not necessary to take any action whatsoever in order to commit suicide.

Further, "killing" requires both a killer and a victim. There is no "victim" in suicide.

Finally, an individual's life belongs not to any other individual or to society or to a deity, but to the individual. It is the right of the individual and only the individual to decide it is time to terminate it, presuming of course the individual in question has not been convicted of a crime against society for which he may be executed.

Do you eat meat?

Irrelevant. Killing a human and killing a non-human are not morally equivalent.

pinky


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Anonymous

Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Zahid]
    #1143309 - 12/15/02 12:48 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Religion should be left out of politics. If you are morally opposed to it, then you dont have to kill yourself!! but those ho dont share your view shouldn't have to be forced to agree with you because of your religious beliefs, I think you should be abel to do whatever you want with your body as long as you're not hurting someone else. Whether that be drugs or suicide...

Im not debating the moral / religious aspects, just political.
:smile:

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Doctor assisted suicide. [Re: Phred]
    #1143588 - 12/15/02 02:29 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

"Irrelevant. Killing a human and killing a non-human are not morally equivalent."

I wouldn't say that. I think it's a valid thing to bring up if someone thinks that "killing is wrong".

There really aren't any set rules for what is morally wrong or right.

I don't think animals suffer any less than humans do. I still eat meat though, I would never chastize someone for eating meat, but I don't exactly think it's a nice thing to do. I just like eating meat more than I care about animals.

Sorry, animals.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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