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Offlineigwna
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i've been thinking, dude...
    #11295676 - 10/21/09 11:26 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

"all throughout life we [humans] have been following a mold. you live, then you die. i'm not afraid of death because of this basic fact. i am going to die. that is the way it has to be. why fear something that has to be?"


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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OfflineKickleM
A Dying Hope
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: igwna]
    #11295990 - 10/22/09 12:05 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Fear it because you cannot control it.
What more common a reason is there?


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlineigwna
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: Kickle]
    #11296017 - 10/22/09 12:09 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Not to fear it cause no matter what you do its always gonna remain the same.


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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OfflineKickleM
A Dying Hope
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: igwna]
    #11296171 - 10/22/09 12:28 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Generalizing your fear of death onto everything you do isn't very adaptive, but as a motivator to remain alive it serves quite an important evolutionary function.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlineigwna
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: Kickle]
    #11296181 - 10/22/09 12:30 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

you can not want to die but also not be afraid to.


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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OfflineKickleM
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: igwna]
    #11296201 - 10/22/09 12:32 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Not before you're cognitively aware enough you can't.
And even then, I doubt you can override your natural survival instincts... or at least not without some pretty severe consequences.


edit:
Rephrasing....
You can control the cognitive aspect of fear, but the physical reactions will remain.
Fight or flight will exist regardless of how you cognitively label the reasons for your reaction.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


Edited by Kickle (10/22/09 12:39 AM)


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Offlineigwna
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: Kickle]
    #11296315 - 10/22/09 12:45 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Not before you're cognitively aware enough you can't.
And even then, I doubt you can override your natural survival instincts... or at least not without some pretty severe consequences.


edit:
Rephrasing....
You can control the cognitive aspect of fear, but the physical reactions will remain.
Fight or flight will exist regardless of how you cognitively label the reasons for your reaction.





Oh, absolutely. The desire to keep ourselves going will always be there.

but as Albert Camus said, "There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the rest — whether or not the world has three dimensions, whether the mind has nine or twelve categories — comes afterwards. These are games; one must first answer."


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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OfflineKickleM
A Dying Hope
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: igwna]
    #11296364 - 10/22/09 12:51 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

That desire to keep going is an aversion to death, aka fear.

I'm also not sure whether or not it is a philosophical problem one must tangle with, or if it is simply a matter of perspective. And the way that a philosopher alters their perspective of things, is by convincing themselves of the philosophical validity of their conclusion.

Whatever works I guess.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlineigwna
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: Kickle]
    #11296382 - 10/22/09 12:53 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

or people can start to live for pleasure
instead of out of fear of death


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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OfflineKickleM
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: igwna]
    #11296408 - 10/22/09 12:57 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Only cognitively.
But that's the part of us that causes the most distress anyways. Hence meditation practices.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlineigwna
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: Kickle]
    #11296449 - 10/22/09 01:02 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

so physically we can't learn to enjoy whats around you?

in some of my worst moments, in moments where i think i might even of died... i noticed that the things i felt felt amazing... carpet or grass on my toes, the pleasant touch of the breeze on my face... even going flyign through the air.. like a kind of "this is amazing" feeling..

kinda made me appreciate what was going on around me a little more




maybe i should look into meditation a little more..


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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OfflineKickleM
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: igwna]
    #11296529 - 10/22/09 01:12 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Fight or flight operates in a hydrolic system.
2 part: Conservation and Priming

As you conserve energy, most aspects of yourself are inhibited. Digestion is in full swing, producing energy from the food in your stomach, your breathing is calm, blood pressure is low, muscles relaxed. If something engages your priming sequence, everything switches. You are now ready to expend any and all energy you have stored within you. Digestion slows or stops, blood is pumped quickly to pertinent parts of the body, your breathing quickens to bring in extra oxygen, etc.

Because of the hydrolic nature of this system, after an intense experience in which fight or flight was fully engaged, there becomes a period in which the inhibiting aspects then spike to balance out. So you will be even more lethargic than normal. In extreme cases, you will just faint because your body is swinging so far to the conservation side of things.

That's why when EMTs respond to the scene of an accident, and the driver is OK but obviously shaken up, they will really press to have them sit down. There fight/flight response is in full swing, but pretty soon it's going to crash the other direction. When that happens, they don't want someone just dropping and getting more injuries than the crash itself induced :lol:

So yeah, it's not that surprising that you feel particularly relaxed at those moments. What happens cognitively, well, it is influenced by our physiological responses for sure. I find it a great combination that our bodies have. You are in a life/death situation, and your body responds accordingly. I personally think it's great if cognitions follow suit, and you start fearing for your life. It's only natural. It's when there is no threat occurring and our cognitions resemble a fear of death, that something isn't lining up. And yes, cognitions can spur the body to produce fight/flight responses.


Edited by Kickle (10/22/09 01:30 AM)


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Offlineigwna
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: Kickle]
    #11296596 - 10/22/09 01:20 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

ahhhh. it kinda all adds up to living in the moment :shrug2:

thank you, i enjoyed that.


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: Kickle]
    #11297894 - 10/22/09 09:00 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I realize that logic is not the strong suit of the religious, but how can people resolve this seeming contradiction?




i had  a dream in which i died.
the fear was not present for me.
i was out of body.


conclusion - only the body dies.
only the body fears.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: jivJaN]
    #11298091 - 10/22/09 10:01 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

A dream, you say? Good enough basis for such a conclusion for me. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
We be jammin', mon!
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #11298568 - 10/22/09 12:13 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Your standards are slipping as I know that you are incapable of sargasm.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: igwna]
    #11299512 - 10/22/09 03:17 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

theMERRYiguana said:
Not to fear it cause no matter what you do its always gonna remain the same.





It's so easy to say you don't fear it when it's not an immediate event staring you in the face. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineigwna
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: Icelander]
    #11299673 - 10/22/09 03:36 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

theMERRYiguana said:
Not to fear it cause no matter what you do its always gonna remain the same.





It's so easy to say you don't fear it when it's not an immediate event staring you in the face. :shrug:





i realize this aswell. but i have been in such situations before... but ultimately i think i feared more the pain than what might happen.

though, i will also admit that i do not want to die and i don't know if i am afraid to or not. i would like to say that i am not afraid but i think i am nervous. its a mystery i can't understand, but i am not lying when i say i am excited to see what comes next.

ultimately i guess i just don't want to face the sucky stages of the kubler ross model


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: igwna]
    #11299721 - 10/22/09 03:42 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

i am not afraid but i think i am nervous

Gee dooooooood thanks for clarifying that.:rofl2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineigwna
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Re: i've been thinking, dude... [Re: Icelander]
    #11299791 - 10/22/09 03:50 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

:lol:

i'm not petrified of it, but i don't want to die.
however, i think i am ready and capable of facing the moment if it arises.

but i don't know anything.


i guess its hard to explain :wow:


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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