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OfflinexFrockx
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A Riddle
    #11295104 - 10/21/09 10:23 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Imagine there is a barber.  This barber shaves all and only those who do not shave themselves.  Does the barber shave himself?


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InvisibleBand of Gypsys
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Re: A Riddle [Re: xFrockx]
    #11295169 - 10/21/09 10:31 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Imaginary barbers don't shave.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: A Riddle [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11295190 - 10/21/09 10:34 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

he shaves a single hair then stops


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OfflineSprezzatura
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Re: A Riddle [Re: xFrockx]
    #11295204 - 10/21/09 10:35 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Trick Question; if he shaved himself, he wouldn't shave himself.


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Spectaculorum procedere debet





:mushroom2: :beer:


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OfflineBrainChemistry
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Re: A Riddle [Re: Sprezzatura]
    #11295220 - 10/21/09 10:36 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sprezzatura said:
Trick Question; if he shaved himself, he wouldn't shave himself.




I'm suspicious.


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Word to your mom.


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InvisibleBand of Gypsys
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Re: A Riddle [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #11295242 - 10/21/09 10:39 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

xFrockx is a witch!  :mob:


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: A Riddle [Re: Sprezzatura]
    #11295250 - 10/21/09 10:40 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

You left out "and vice versa" but I guess we'll give it to ya.  Vanna, what does he win?


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OfflineBrainChemistry
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Re: A Riddle [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #11295259 - 10/21/09 10:41 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I've got it.

The barber develops split personalities. One persona never shaves one half of his face. So the other persona shaves the side that the first persona doesn't, and vice versa.


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Word to your mom.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: A Riddle [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #11296617 - 10/22/09 01:22 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

This is old, its a paradox.

If the barber shaves everyone who doesn't shave themselves, them he shaves himself
But, since the barber doesn't shave people who shave themselves, he doesn't shave himself

He cannot both shave himself and not shave himself at the same time.


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OfflineBrainChemistry
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Re: A Riddle [Re: learningtofly]
    #11296858 - 10/22/09 01:54 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

You can't just call the riddle a paradox.

That means its unsolvable, or rather the solution is that there is no solution. Which means its not even a riddle.

Lame.


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Word to your mom.


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: A Riddle [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #11297172 - 10/22/09 03:11 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BrainChemistry said:
You can't just call the riddle a paradox.

That means its unsolvable, or rather the solution is that there is no solution. Which means its not even a riddle.

Lame.




+ what learningtofly said.

Other old options:

The barber is a woman. Or has no beard. Or no face.


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OfflineBrainChemistry
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Re: A Riddle [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11297329 - 10/22/09 04:10 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The barber is a woman.




See now that seems like a reasonable answer to a riddle.


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Word to your mom.


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OfflineDiaboleros
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Re: A Riddle [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11297342 - 10/22/09 04:13 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think it's a paradox, there's an answer to this riddle...

The mere thought of shaving himself would make him belong to the group of "unshaveables" preventing him from shaving himself. But then again, by being prevented from shaving himself, he gets moved to the group of "shaveables" which would allow him to reconsider shaving himself. But by considering to shave himself, he again, moves himself to the group of unshaveables.. as you can see this goes on ad infinitum. So the answer is no, he will never get to shaving himself, he will keep moving from shaveable to unshaveable all the time, but there is no action.


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: A Riddle [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11297377 - 10/22/09 04:24 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

This is not a riddle because there is no answer. He cannot abstain from shaving himself because then he would shave himself.

Diaboleros, you are adding assumptions to the 'puzzle', eg. you assume the ristriction on his behavior occurs after he has made a consideration. The 'riddle' says nothing of the sort.. it could just be that only those who do not shave themselves ask to be shaved. The fact that the puzzle is actually paradox (yes, BrainChemistry, this is what it is) means that it doesnt matter what the barber thinks


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: A Riddle [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11297385 - 10/22/09 04:26 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

If it is a riddle I gave what I see as a good answer. If it is a paradox there is, in this case, no answer as it can't be decided.


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: A Riddle [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11297389 - 10/22/09 04:29 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
This is not a riddle because there is no answer. He cannot abstain from shaving himself because then he would shave himself.

Diaboleros, you are adding assumptions to the 'puzzle', eg. you assume the ristriction on his behavior occurs after he has made a consideration. The 'riddle' says nothing of the sort.. it could just be that only those who do not shave themselves ask to be shaved. The fact that the puzzle is actually paradox (yes, BrainChemistry, this is what it is) means that it doesnt matter what the barber thinks




Also, I just Wikipediafied it. Read more here.


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: A Riddle [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11297390 - 10/22/09 04:29 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

You are assuming that the barber does not shave women, and I guess that is an acceptible assumption. However, it is not strictly part of the riddle. Women shave themselves... surely a barber can shave them too


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: A Riddle [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11297400 - 10/22/09 04:32 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Depends on the ancestry of the women.

There are many things assumed in any riddle. Such as gender that I pointed out. The riddles I have encountered are always answered with a solution that reinterprets or questions some of the assumptions of the prepositions, but not all of them. For instance, who would laugh at the riddle if I were to answer with a witty reply that changed the meaning of "to be"?


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: A Riddle [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11297422 - 10/22/09 04:39 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

you are right, most riddles involve ambiguities necessary to the answer.

however, in this question, the barber is a male. It is actually specified but I only noticed just then.


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OfflineDiaboleros
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Re: A Riddle [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11297709 - 10/22/09 06:54 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
This is not a riddle because there is no answer. He cannot abstain from shaving himself because then he would shave himself.

Diaboleros, you are adding assumptions to the 'puzzle', eg. you assume the ristriction on his behavior occurs after he has made a consideration. The 'riddle' says nothing of the sort.. it could just be that only those who do not shave themselves ask to be shaved. The fact that the puzzle is actually paradox (yes, BrainChemistry, this is what it is) means that it doesnt matter what the barber thinks



You are the one adding assumptions, you assume barbers do not think. Where does that comes from?


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