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Invisibledonteatasians


Registered: 08/14/07
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lucid dreaming vs. astral projection?
    #11293194 - 10/21/09 06:07 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I been doing a lot of research here on the shroomery and other online resources but am still unclear on the difference between the two are.  It seems that lucid dreaming deals with the subconscious while astral projection and the astral plane is more of a universal conciseness deal. Could someone please help me clear this up?


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Offlinedeff
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: donteatasians]
    #11293561 - 10/21/09 07:01 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

lucid dreams happen when one is asleep, either within a dream where lucidity is reached or lucidly entering a dream (via the WILD method)

astral projection / OOBE's on the other hand happen from a waking state, and sometimes spontaneously. as for the validity of an objective astral plane, that's up to debate.

another difference is that with lucid dreams one usually feels like they're 'inside themselves' and have moderate to high control over the experience, whereas with OOBE's one feels like they've entered an external place and usually have limited control over the experience.


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Invisibledonteatasians


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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: deff]
    #11293714 - 10/21/09 07:25 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

thankyou, and WILD stands for will and intent lucid dreaming right?


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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: donteatasians]
    #11293771 - 10/21/09 07:32 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

wake-induced lucid dreaming

its when one stays conscious as they fall asleep and enter into a dream knowingly. usually this is best accomplished after sleeping for 4-6hrs, waking up, then attempting the WILD while going back to bed (as this allows one to enter directly into REM sleep).


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: deff]
    #11295002 - 10/21/09 10:10 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

l projection / OOBE's on the other hand happen from a waking state, and sometimes spontaneously.




this isnt necessarily true.


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All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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Offlinedeff
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: jivJaN]
    #11295028 - 10/21/09 10:13 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

true, I should have put usually


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: deff]
    #11295125 - 10/21/09 10:26 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

can you and do you project often ?


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---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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Offlinedeff
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: jivJaN]
    #11295210 - 10/21/09 10:35 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

nope, never projected... just lucid dreamed :crazy:

been reading up on it recently though


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: deff]
    #11297811 - 10/22/09 08:06 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

hehe

thats the thing...
you think you haven't :smile:

ever had a 'lucid' dream where you're exactly in the same room as you were while awake ?


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---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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OfflineMycomyth
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: jivJaN]
    #11305807 - 10/23/09 02:14 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
ever had a 'lucid' dream where you're exactly in the same room as you were while awake ?





Or a place you know in waking, but it looks a little different?

M


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Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.


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Offlinefazdazzle
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: jivJaN]
    #11306032 - 10/23/09 02:58 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

There's also the idea of the "mind split" which Robert Bruce talks about in "Astral Dynamics" which his explanation of autonomous functioning of the physical vessel as well as the projected double. He believes that both record information, but only under certain circumstances does your projected double download it's experience directly into your physical body's mind, therefore your projected double can be out and about without "your" knowledge. I don't think he implies that you could be projecting all the time, just that as your going to sleep or deeply resting, basically when you get in the mind awake/body asleep phase, you are susceptible to projection and may have done so without your direct knowledge.

As far as the difference between lucids and projections, nobody really has a definitive answer, but it does seem as if lucids are more isolated and projections a bit more objective. I've heard someone say that a lucid dream is a projection in your private space, the other is a projection in public space. I think the thing that allows for that distinction is that projectors have noticed over time that there is a structure to the astral plane that never changes. You can actually go from one level of the astral to another, where if you tried something like that in a lucid dream nothing would happen or at best you would create what your looking for in the usual way that dreamspace is malleable.


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OfflineEnvix
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: fazdazzle]
    #11307261 - 10/23/09 06:19 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

(from experience)

this is the easiest way I can explain it:

It's like a deliriant trip (if you've ever taken datura or benadryl/dramamine)

Dreams are OBEs on deliriants. in a dream you are out of body already, floating above your physical body. execpt you're in a delirious state where everything is manifest of your subconscious (i.e. hallucination)

when you're able to realize in a dream that everything you're seeing is a hallucination, you'll "snap back into reality", or in this case: "out of body".

from then on, whether it's a lucid dream or astral projection is all dependent on perception.


Edited by Envix (10/23/09 06:21 PM)


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: fazdazzle]
    #11308072 - 10/23/09 08:51 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

i like that you mentioned that book..

i seem to have been accessing the real-time zone he mentions for years now..
and the whole time , i as well, thought that i have never projected consciously..
i would do what i use to call jumping into a dream and end up in the same area i was in before it , completely unaware of the fact that i have projected... so i would just keep sitting there , or laying there trying :smile:
kinda funny..
but nehow.. on a number of occasions i have retrieved information from the real-time zone that was verified when i woke up :smile:

cool shit...
also.. if you're lucid.. you can project easily from there..


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: jivJaN]
    #11308194 - 10/23/09 09:15 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

the two times I astral projected, the first one started as a lucid dream and then I went through the clouds past a black wall and popped into a more "real" space, second time I was having sleep paralysis and just went with it

an easy distinction to make is that in a dream you have a dream body while in astral projection you are just a single point of observation. also the astral world always felt more "sketchy" to me than a dream - dreams for me are usually fluffy and oceanic, they feel safe - in the astral it feels like you could run into some serious shit


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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #11310712 - 10/24/09 11:08 AM (8 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
- in the astral it feels like you could run into some serious shit




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Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.


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InvisibleTheWolf
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: donteatasians]
    #11310812 - 10/24/09 11:41 AM (8 years, 30 days ago)

Lucid dreaming is more of an experience for yourself, a dream in which you're usually able to control your actions or the dream itself.

Astral projection is traveling to one of the astral realms or in your astral body in the physical realm.  There's many, many theories and practices concerning both so I could be misinterpreting something, but I think that's a difference between the two.


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Invisiblec0sm0nauttM
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: Mycomyth]
    #11311029 - 10/24/09 12:36 PM (8 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Mycomyth said:
Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
- in the astral it feels like you could run into some serious shit







Being forced to confront your fears is some serious shit.


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InvisibleCyanicist
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #11328265 - 10/27/09 12:20 AM (8 years, 28 days ago)

Why does astral projection sound like meditation to me?


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: Cyanicist]
    #11328634 - 10/27/09 01:16 AM (8 years, 28 days ago)

I don't know but I wouldn't say they are a like unless you have out of body experiences when you meditate


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InvisibleCyanicist
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Re: lucid dreaming vs. astral projection? [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #11328747 - 10/27/09 01:39 AM (8 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
I don't know but I wouldn't say they are a like unless you have out of body experiences when you meditate




Well a lot of times when I hear about people describing meditation, it's more like total relaxation than anything.  And that, to me, is like the first level of meditation - preparation for it.  When I slip into meditation, I'm entirely aware of the energy in my body, my breathing, my focus.... I begin to see a warping mandala-like thing in my vision... most of the time I just watch it and hold the meditative feeling there.  Other times, I get so far into it that I no longer have to hold onto anything, but rather just "let go" entirely and sure enough, there's the blinding white light and total bliss.

But through most of this, I become less and less aware of my body... And sometimes, I lose the feeling of it altogether.  Also, before any of the "white light" it feels as though I'm in some other realm, and that there are many more of these realms.  I guess I can further the conversation by asking: How does one Astral Project exactly?


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