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OfflinepSykArMa
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MORALITY... does it exist??
    #11293175 - 10/21/09 06:05 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

just humanhood's illusion or backbone of life on earth?????
free space for any ideas :jesus:


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: pSykArMa]
    #11293188 - 10/21/09 06:06 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Of course it exists. Most of it is complete bullshit, though, that I want nothing to do with. :glittershitz:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinefigmentfragment
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: pSykArMa]
    #11293213 - 10/21/09 06:10 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I would say it exists as much as our own identities.

The concepts seem to support each other.


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OfflinepSykArMa
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #11293291 - 10/21/09 06:21 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

and whats your own morality has it anything to do with mainstream's or is it a completely different concept, or maybe you have your own but you act by meanstream's cause of the expectations from others..
of course everyone has its own but there are infinite ways to practice itXD
im goin to sleep and will come tomorrow to see, byeeeeeeee!!!!


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OfflineCharos
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #11293301 - 10/21/09 06:21 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

just humanhood's illusion or backbone of life on earth?????
free space for any ideas




They exist, we see them and their effects every day...I've seen nothing to suggest they exist as some absolute standard by any means though...what's morally good to a 12th century noblewoman and morally good to a 21st century rock star are totally different things...Neither one, as far as I can see, are "wrong" just different.


--------------------
*+_Charos_+*

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--Eli

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Offlinefigmentfragment
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: pSykArMa]
    #11293343 - 10/21/09 06:28 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I think we believe what supports our identity, we accumulate identity largely from "mainstream" interaction.

They exist simultaneously because it occurred this way.

Isolate one being from external influence from birth.

Do they hold the same accepted "morals?"

Are they even a "person?"


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #11293844 - 10/21/09 07:41 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

It's a social phenomena, imo.


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OfflinepSykArMa
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #11297271 - 10/22/09 03:55 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

yeah i seem to agrre with you fig
Quote:

figmentfragment said:
I think we believe what supports our identity, we accumulate identity largely from "mainstream" interaction.

They exist simultaneously because it occurred this way.

Isolate one being from external influence from birth.

Do they hold the same accepted "morals?"

Are they even a "person?"





but what do you think of a kind of universal morality like, let me say: Last/First man on earth, would he have his own mor? eg would him judice unjust goin around and killing every animal encountered only for fun?? he obviously wouldnt be against something like masturbation or farting and so wheres the line between natural morality and the invented, fictional one???

                                          Dr.EaM


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: pSykArMa]
    #11297444 - 10/22/09 04:46 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pSykArMa said:
just humanhood's illusion or backbone of life on earth?????
free space for any ideas :jesus:




I think you need to focus your querie.

Obviously morality exists... just about everyones got morals of some sort.

The question is whether there is one REAL, PROPER morality (as opposed to the other fake, subjective, or incomplete moralities) that does not depend on individual life experiences?

I don't think there is...

why would there be?

maybe if you believed in God...


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OfflinepSykArMa
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11297575 - 10/22/09 05:42 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

morality is obviously subjective, noteworthy, but i think you have missed the point so read my last post, i was meaning how much of owr own morality comes from social interactions and how much comes from our nature, biology to clear up :dogapple:  :undecided:


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Offlinedill705
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: Charos]
    #11299914 - 10/22/09 04:09 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Charos said:
Quote:

just humanhood's illusion or backbone of life on earth?????
free space for any ideas




They exist, we see them and their effects every day...I've seen nothing to suggest they exist as some absolute standard by any means though...what's morally good to a 12th century noblewoman and morally good to a 21st century rock star are totally different things...Neither one, as far as I can see, are "wrong" just different.




Agreed. Morality exists. However, it is relative to culture and time. Even relative between people. And as you said, none are wrong, just different. This begs the question, what is right and wrong, morally?

I would argue that there is no right and wrong, just mentalistic concepts that describe what you felt about a certain action. So, in fact right and wrong are products of human psychology and hence do not exist in objective reality.

There is no "right" or "wrong" there only is what is.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~


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Offlinelaserpig
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: dill705]
    #11300133 - 10/22/09 04:45 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Morality exists ... as a concept.
However, there is no such "thing" as morality.

People decide what kinds of behaviors they like, then they pat each other on the back or get pissed at each other depending on whether someone exhibits said behaviors.
IMO, that's really all there is to it.

Laying down "moral codes" is stupid. All productive moral guidelines can pretty much be reduced to the golden rule -- and the rest only serve to confuse people and make them feel shitty about themselves. (For example: the idea that our naked bodies are shameful. Stupid, stupid, stupid! That moral guideline has an exclusively negative effect on humanity, IMO.)

But if you're looking for the "reality" of morality, there is none. We make shit up to make us happy and help us survive.
Blowing up an orphanage and feeding the homeless are both just shit that can happen. Each inspires different emotions in the people involved, but that's as close to a real basis for morality as you're gonna get.


--------------------
Weedmaster P knows the truth.


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: pSykArMa]
    #11300540 - 10/22/09 05:35 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

True morality would fulfil itself automatically. It cannot be made because it follows from being totally open and honest. Trying to put morality into rules is needed so long as we feel the need to control others and ourself. Once we are free from this scheming our actions become pacified and joyful about qualities like trust, honesty, truthfulness, love, ...

So, any defined morality is but a guide or set of rules that leads to real morality which is the result love. :heart:


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: laserpig]
    #11300569 - 10/22/09 05:39 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

laserpig said:
All productive moral guidelines can pretty much be reduced to the golden rule.


And what golden rule is this? :strokebeard2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: pSykArMa]
    #11301338 - 10/22/09 07:42 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pSykArMa said:
morality is obviously subjective, noteworthy, but i think you have missed the point so read my last post, i was meaning how much of owr own morality comes from social interactions and how much comes from our nature, biology to clear up :dogapple:  :undecided:




Ok. I dont feel that you really expressed that in any of your other posts in this thread.
As for my answer,
I would say biology gives us our ability to empathise and understand the need to care about the safety of others. However, social interaction defines a lot about how these abilities are expressed. Society can teach you what is right and wrong, and biology can make you listen. The social interaction defines where the biological mechanisms are 'aimed' so to speak. Many people have partial morality - that is, they have different moral codes for different people. Often, humans can fail to recognise certain ethnic groups with their moral codes.
Not only this, but different people have different beliefs about what is 'deserved'. biology supports this deservance/vengance module but it can be calibrated by social interaction. Some people believe in an eye for an eye, others believe in turning the other cheek. Some people believe killing can be morally good (perhaps by religious intention) and others never condone it. I don't think people are born with any moral intentions except towards their family, if anything. That is, there are no built in moral codes. What we are born with is the ability to make emotional distinctions of a moral nature. I think you have left out a source of morals, and that is, observation & contemplation. This is not so much an interaction perse but a process of development. By reflecting on their life and on the events of the world, people can gain 'moral insight'.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11301541 - 10/22/09 08:14 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I am unique and all, but I would laugh my ass off if everyone, without reading anothers meaning, gave their meaning of morality and what they were basing all their idea for each other on....hahah. I know for sure, it wont be the same for a majority....hahaha.

Ie. Morality as defined by me; a form of thought that utilizes principles and assumptions about humans to draw conclusions about actions.

Curiosity has got the best of me, what is everyone elses?


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #11301550 - 10/22/09 08:15 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Wow I've become such a loser...re-reading my post, shows me that I am far away from common norms of act in this world.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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Invisiblederanger
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #11301605 - 10/22/09 08:25 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Wow I've become such a loser...re-reading my post, shows me that I am far away from common norms of act in this world.




welcome to the party.
it's fun way back here and out there.


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: laserpig]
    #11301919 - 10/22/09 09:05 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

laserpig said:
Morality exists ... as a concept.
However, there is no such "thing" as morality.

People decide what kinds of behaviors they like, then they pat each other on the back or get pissed at each other depending on whether someone exhibits said behaviors.
IMO, that's really all there is to it.






I think that actions are 'things' and if they are guided by morality then you can say there exists morality in that persons actions.


--------------------


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Offlinelaserpig
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Re: MORALITY... does it exist?? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11302741 - 10/22/09 11:07 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

An action can be JUDGED as moral or immoral but that's just a judgment.


RE: Poid
The golden rule I'm referring to is "do unto others as you would have others do unto you."
In other words, "don't be a dick, think about how your actions affect others and refrain from doing things which cause unnecessary pain."


--------------------
Weedmaster P knows the truth.


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